Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[JSpencer]

Totally agree with you on the point of European modellers being treated to vastly superior models than the British market. It's been like that since the year dot. Even back when I first started in the hobby in the mid 70's, the continental produced locos were vastly superior to anything on the British market, my Dad would quite often start modelling something in British OO then get completely fed up with the quality of what was commercially available and be swayed back into the HO market - he would even do that in 2mm as well.

 

The problem being is what Lima came up against in the 80's when they started to produce models for the 'Modern' scene. It still stands with the moulds today - they were pretty much dimensionally spot on, but the motors in them had to be built to a price, resulting in the 'pancake' being put inside all Lima diesels.

 

The problem? The fact that the British modeller wanted a top spec model but refused to pay the sheets for it..........the problem still stands today. You can read all sorts of posts bemoaning how much Bachmann or such and such are going to be charging for their next model and it sounds like these modellers are being asked to pay in vials of blood. One of the main reasons why production went over to China was so that the manufacturers could get away with paying low wages but managing to produce reasonably high spec ( or a lot higher spec than the British market was used to ) models.

 

Now that the average Chinese production worker has become skilled, higher wages are demanded plus the whole Brexit thing has dramatically pushed up the end price to us customers. If you want to continue to have the standard of models that we've been treated to in the last 20 years, you're going to have to suck it up buttercup and get with the programme. You cannot demand high spec models and want to pay low costs for them - Locos are now costing £150+, more if you want sound, that's the reality, no ammount of whining and whingeing is going to alter that - all it's going to do is drive the quality down again by refusing to pay what it costs. Have you had a look at how much someone like Fleischmann charges for one of their 2-10-0's? it's about 370 Euro's!!, but they're top quality.

 

By all means carry on complaining about the prices you're asked to pay now, but from my perspective, the gear that's rolling out of boxes and straight onto the track these days is better than in the history of British modelling. Just be glad you don't have to pay what a continental HO modeller has to fork out for!

 

cheers

 

Andy

 

The other side of the coin, the UK market is bigger, a lot bigger than any individual country in Europe - this could be due to the cheaper cost.

 

Few are prepared to pay £300 for a loco in the UK but will probably be just as many who pay 370 Euros in Germany. Personally I find todays level of detail and running good enough in the UK. Just make sure they get the size and shape right and allow us space for various DCC gubbins.

 

Oxfordrail have done locos fitted with or without sound of late. So maybe they could do the same coaches with or without lights?

[BR Blue]

Is the UK market bigger than the German one?

[adb968008]

Is the UK market bigger than the German one?

I think we've had this debate before, depends what you call German... is that DACH region, Germany, every country which has some imported German stock, every country with stock modelled by a German company or every German manufacturer, not forgetting Roco is Austrian.

 

British is uniquely British, German is European.

 

However I feel ebay gives the answer..

In the model railway category tonight we have 267k items in the UK and 354k in Germany (inc rest of EU selling to Germany).

(As way of side track ebay Austria only has 2144 items in model railways listed... they all use the German site, just as Canadians list on the US site).

 

Other food for thought, the highest value item in UK models is err... well isn't a model, it belongs in the bizarre thread.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replica-Diesel-Engine-EMD-F7-Santa-Fe-Super-Chief-Model-Railway-Pub-Man-Cave/292248069221?hash=item440b57a465%3Ag%3AqWQAAOSwrqlZfZqB

but ignoring that we're looking at a £9k item, and 129 items above £1000

 

In the German thread... that 1,105 above the 1000 Euro threshold, the highest value is a 28k euro marklin collection followed by a few CIWL coaches for 25k...

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Wunder-Spur-1-Orient-Express-6-teilig-digital-mit-Personenwagen-Packwagen-KM1/182697238740?hash=item2a899aa0d4%3Ag%3AZ%7EMAAOSwWJ5ZgLUU

and we think we're paying too much.

 

My opinion, Uk and Germany are close to equal, if you took all the "foreign elements" out of the equation and focused on pure DB/DR stock solely used in Germany.

 

Anyway back to topic before the offtopicStasi arrive.

Edited September 18, 2017 by adb968008

[Wolf27]

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

cheers

 

Shane

[njee20]

Wow, they look great.

 

Red stripe still looks too thick to my eye?

[Wolf27]

Wow, they look great.

Red stripe still looks too thick to my eye?

One is a 40 year old Jouef model.

[Legend]

Yeah was going to say the blue grey one is Joueff. Was that just for comparison? What's the relevance of these photos? Was Oxford demonstrating somewhere. Looks unlikely as as well as Joueff it looks like a Rapido APT-E at the back.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Legend

[Wolf27]

I was given the pre production sample to look at when demo-ing at Scaleforum, so took the opportunity to place old and new side by side.

Cheers

Shane

Edited September 24, 2017 by Wolf27

[Andrew F]

Can I be the first to say that the Jouef one looks better? Just kidding. The Oxford shows great promise.

 

There is a certain Je ne sais pas about the Jouef. The roof to body profile is nice.

[UP 4000]

Looking Very nice indeed, and I spy Rapido's E-Train lurking in the background,

[Legend]

Any news on release date as you were given the sample?

[Wolf27]

No, a friend had it on loan from Oxford.

[43179]

Nice - sort of -  the Oxford version seems to be lacking the recessed area around the top and sides of the door droplights - clearly visible on Jouefs -   Id be interested in a clearer view of the underframe pod too as it seems overwidth at its base, so doesn't tuck under the body a far as it ought to  - suggesting the sides of the pod sit at too steep an angle. The pod also seems to sit too low to the ground - especially if you look at it in relation to the spring carriers on the bogies - and then look at a real mk3   -  It doesnt instantly scream 'Mk3' to me im afraid -  lots of nice twiddly separate bits but im not sure if its accurate.

 

Jon  

[43179]

Hope Shane doesn't mind me drawing on his image - but hopefully this does a better job of explaing what I was saying about the door profile around the windows - I've drawn in red 'missing' bit.

 

Jon 

[Wolf27]

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

Edited September 24, 2017 by Wolf27

[frobisher]

Hope Shane doesn't mind me drawing on his image - but hopefully this does a better job of explaing what I was saying about the door profile around the windows - I've drawn in red 'missing' bit.

Looking at one of the other pictures, I'd hazard it is there (being dark rather than light coloured it's not as obvious), it's just a bit more subtle than then Jouef ones which had to cope with non-flush glazing so would be more pronounced as a result (and a quick search of prototype photos fall much more towards the Oxford ones than the Jouef trenches...).

Edited September 24, 2017 by frobisher

[njee20]

One is a 40 year old Jouef model.

Fair enough, I did think the gangway looked a little chunky on the blue/grey one, but anything pre-1990 gets nothing more than a cursory glance, so I only looked at the IC one!

 

I'm not sure the 'indent' for the window needs to be as marked as it is on the Joeuf one, there is a bit of relief on the Oxford one.

Edited September 25, 2017 by njee20

[tiger]

I think the Oxford one really looks streets ahead of the Joeuf - the moulding is much finer and less clunky. Just look at the Roe Vac vents and the gangways by way of comparison.

 

However what will really make these models perfect is getting the livery application absolutely right - so the red and white stripe proportions need to be adjusted. I also really think the Oxford Rail IC livery looks odd without the window frames being highlighted in silver. Yes the frames have been painted over in many of the Privatisation era liveries, but they were almost universally silver in the BR INTERCITY era (ex-prototype vehicles and the Anglia RFM pictured earlier in the thread excepted). The Dapol Mk 3 IC coaches have silver frames in N Gauge so it should be possible to add the distinctive detail in OO/4mm.

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[Pete the Elaner]

 I also really think the Oxford Rail IC livery looks odd without the window frames being highlighted in silver. Yes the frames have been painted over in many of the Privatisation era liveries, but they were almost universally silver in the BR INTERCITY era

We discussed this earlier.

While the HST Mk3s were all (or at least nearly all) silver, Mk3As were much more of a mix with many having painted window frames. It is difficult to say if more were painted or silver & in IC days.

 

I think Oxford have got this spot on & would be disappointed if they changed it.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Pete the Elaner

[Roy Langridge]

Looking at one of the other pictures, I'd hazard it is there (being dark rather than light coloured it's not as obvious), it's just a bit more subtle than then Jouef ones which had to cope with non-flush glazing so would be more pronounced as a result (and a quick search of prototype photos fall much more towards the Oxford ones than the Jouef trenches...).

 

I agree, however, as you mention flush glazing - it doesn't look too hot on the Oxford one. The photo marked up for the recess shows how inset the glazing is with frames that are quite pronounced. On the real thing there is a tiny frame: https://photos.smugmug.com/Great-Central-Northern-Rudding/Railway-Coaches/i-vb2Nzvr/0/0f15c220/X2/BR%2011074%20Mk%203%20First%20Open%2025%2C04%2C2015-X2.jpg (Not my photo)

 

Roy

[tiger]

We discussed this earlier.

While the HST Mk3s were all (or at least nearly all) silver, Mk3As were much more of a mix with many having painted window frames. It is difficult to say if more were painted or silver & in IC days.

 

I think Oxford have got this spot on & would be disappointed if they changed it.

 

Hi Pete

 

I read the earlier discussion with interest. Time plays tricks on the memory and I was only a kid/teenager in the BR era when the Mk 3 and 3a fleets were progressively repainted from Blue/Grey to "executive" livery and then on to INTERCITY. And, I lived in Edinburgh so most of my exposure to Mk 3 coaching stock was in HST rakes and Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pulls. So there is plenty of scope for me to be wrong...

 

I've been Googling and Flickring to see whether my memory is playing tricks on me or not. Most of the pictures I have found are like this one where to my eye at least it looks as if all of the stock has sliver frames:

 

https://flic.kr/p/kqPoJF

 

Silver frames apart from the leading Mk1 BG:

 

https://flic.kr/p/nswHqY

 

Looks like the silver frames lasted until the end of the IC livery era:

 

https://flic.kr/p/r5hKrR

 

Generally the frames were completely painted over on Mk 2 aircons, like this:

 

https://flic.kr/p/e2FLzU

 

I think the silver frame effect was quite subtle as it was just the inner part of the frame that appeared "silver" - as seen earlier in this thread (I realise this is ScotRail livery):

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107460-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-mk3-coaches/?p=2652948

 

Mk 3a RFM 10200 has already been featured in this thread in IC livery with painted frames - but I think this was the exception rather than the rule. It was painted to match a Mk 2F Norwich-London rake (AR01) as the first rake to be refurbished just as the Anglia franchise was let for the first time; all of the remaining rakes received "Anglia" colours on refurbishment. 

 

Anyway I'm glad you like the look of the new Oxford coaches - they certainly look like finely moulded accurate models which knock the spots off the previous efforts from Hornby, Lima and Joeuf

 

Cheers

 

Tom.

Edited September 25, 2017 by tiger

[Andrew F]

I don't think the roof ribs should be any finer than the rain strip. Those ribs look way too fine on the Oxford coach but still better and more to scale than the Jouef.

[Roy Langridge]

I don't think the roof ribs should be any finer than the rain strip. Those ribs look way too fine on the Oxford coach but still better and more to scale than the Jouef.

 

I would agree there - have a look at this post in another thread for a good close-up: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1862355&postcount=112

 

Roy

[Wolf27]

Hope these will be of some use, taken at Shackerstone today

 

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

Untitled by Shane Wilton, on Flickr

 

cheers

 

Shane

[PoshPaws]

For those modellers who are looking for specific numbering they are much better served in terms of variation and availability by the transfer suppliers. No manufacturer is going to be able to economically cater to every numbering requirement.

Sorry to quote an older post, but should mention that Railtec recently introduced a transfer set to number a full HST set with numbers completely of your choice. If Oxford could be persuaded to do unnumbered trailers, then these would make tom set a really quick job.