classy52 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 The livery colours may be better, apart from that yucky lower skirt, but the price ! gulp.......... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R4295A-BR-INTERCITY-Mk3-SWALLOW-LIVERY-TOURIST-CLASS-COACH-No-12132/282838209155?epid=1368422122&hash=item41da789283:g:YkkAAOSwW9Raeh3g ...from his "personal collection" no longer required for my layout, basically what he really means I'm just your everyday carpetbagger or speculator and don't actually have a layout but I'm now ready to profiteer knowing these have all sold out Smart that he fixes the start bids at already sky high prices on all the items knowing he'll never get that much if he didn't, give credit he's got a bid on each one of those coaches lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad McCann Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I operated Roco push-pull DB stock for a number of years. No problems whatsoever in push mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Hmm, not sure what to do. The main issue I have is with the roof, the ribs are too shallow. I have a number of Jouef versions which I picked up for £5 each over 20 years ago and resprayed into Scotrail, fitted Kadee couplers and Bachmann wagon wheelsets which have the moulded split disc. With the Kadees no derailing occured in push mode. Here they are, if I stick with these for the Wigan show in October then they will be stripped, moulded lines on bodyside removed and some Lazerglaze maybe added. The silver beading will also be added which I missed all those years ago. Decisions decisions..... Cheers Simon 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 They look really smart Simon. It is a pity you didn't take out the mould lines before the excellent re-sprays. The glazing too looks pretty good, especially for the age of the coaches. You got the livery shades spot on. I'd be really interested to see a Jouef mk3 with Lazerglaze and see how they fit as they have a different aperture to most coaches; just a thin lip and the tinted plastic Shawplan use is about 3mm thick so I wonder how they fit. On my coaches I've just cut some old tinted acetate and canopy glued them behind the frame lip. I think they look Ok but are not really flush fitted of course but they are easy to fit as the pane doesn't have to be an exact fit to the aperture. If I didn't have the Jouefs I'd buy the Oxfords without question. Also a word of warning about the Jouefs; many are now very brittle and I've known a coach end break away when someone just try to apply a transfer! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Hi Andrew, the glazing looks great from that picture. The age of the shells is a concern as I cracked one of the ends when dismantling for spraying the first time in 1996/97, Yes should have removed the moulded lines at the time. Given the age, I may actually use very fine wet and dry to remove the paint work prior to respraying as paintwork showing its age and gives me chance to remove the moulded lines, not sure how they would stand up to some of the paint strippers available. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keybuk Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 ...from his "personal collection" no longer required for my layout, basically what he really means I'm just your everyday carpetbagger or speculator and don't actually have a layout but I'm now ready to profiteer knowing these have all sold out Smart that he fixes the start bids at already sky high prices on all the items knowing he'll never get that much if he didn't, give credit he's got a bid on each one of those coaches lol Looked like he accidentally bought them himself, since the auction ended, and the same seller just relisted them again. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847392970 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847386001 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Looked like he accidentally bought them himself, since the auction ended, and the same seller just relisted them again. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847392970 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847386001 He is optimist for sure. The problem is eventually other ebayers will see that and start asking for equally silly prices. Now when ebay charged for announcement, then at least there was an incentive to not clutter up the site with overpriced items that remain there, year in year out. Edited February 14, 2018 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 They look really smart Simon. It is a pity you didn't take out the mould lines before the excellent re-sprays. The glazing too looks pretty good, especially for the age of the coaches. You got the livery shades spot on. I'd be really interested to see a Jouef mk3 with Lazerglaze and see how they fit as they have a different aperture to most coaches; just a thin lip and the tinted plastic Shawplan use is about 3mm thick so I wonder how they fit. On my coaches I've just cut some old tinted acetate and canopy glued them behind the frame lip. I think they look Ok but are not really flush fitted of course but they are easy to fit as the pane doesn't have to be an exact fit to the aperture. If I didn't have the Jouefs I'd buy the Oxfords without question. Also a word of warning about the Jouefs; many are now very brittle and I've known a coach end break away when someone just try to apply a transfer! That looks very nice indeed Andrew. I too am in the Oxford v Joueff wrangle. I was hoping against all hope that the OR 3a's were going to be a straight shoe in for Glasgow Queen St (EM) but all the issues raised on here, plus my own observations have made me think quite hard about the way forward. I've purchased a lot of Joueff 3a's in the past, but delayed doing anything with them when I initially found about the OR model. What I will say goes in favour of the OR 3a's is the ends and eth detail, but that can be added to Joeff coaches quite easily. Again, picking up on the brittleness issue, in order to re-glaze a joueff coach, the whole of the roof has to be extracted and the glazing cut away - not for the faint hearted. Mind you, I've had a couple of Lima Mk3's splinter in that direction too, so there's always going to be some sort of problem! I've now only got approx 12 months before Queen St debuts at the Macclesfield exhibition in 2019 ( albeit in a very unfinished state ), so I need to stop procrastinating and start doing something with the Joueff coaches...................who'd be a modeller!! cheers Andy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2018 And they still managed to get it completely wrong. The last thing I want to do is kick a man whilst he's down.....BUT......having spent the weekend at Stafford show, I thought I'd conduct my own field test and spoke with several known experts on the subject ( no names ) The general concensus is as follows: The livery is totally wrong with the light grey not being 'Buff' enough and the dark grey being too dark. The ribs on the roof are wrong The body side looks too deep and therefore makes the underskirt well look as though its sitting too far down, if indeed the skirt isn't too deep as well. The 1st class logo is the wrong shade. These are not my findings as I am in no way an expert on MK3a's, but several of the guys I spoke too are, including one who works on them for a living ( engineer that is, not on board train crew ). I find it as dissapointing as everyone else, as these were planned as a shoe in straight onto my layout when the ScotRail versions are released. If they get the livery right on those, I may well live with the other faults - we'll see, but if they release the ScotRail versions with the same issues as the Inter-City releases, then It's going to be a strip and re-spray for me. If that's the case, I'm sticking with my Joueff MK3a's and put all the work into them as I know I can get them nearer to being correct than the OR ones. Cheers Andy Thanks for this - very useful. I saw some IC ones in the flesh in Hartburn Hobbies today and they just look wrong - roof ribs too shallow, livery issues, and the coach looks oddly "wide", more like a MK4. So I'm reluctantly cancelling my Scotrail ones today... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I too was hoping to just drop the OR Scotrail Mk3a's into service on Strathmuir with some weathering applied ready for Wigan 2018 but have decided to retain the Jouef MK3a's and rework/respray them which is going to take a bit of work but will be worth it. Cheers Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2018 What do people have against the Hornby MKIIIs? Considering it more, I think actually I'll buy one Oxford MKIII and resin cast the corridor connections, ETS sockets and possibly steps, then fit them to Hornby MKIIIs - resprayed where necessary - and bin/ebay the Oxford one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 only because they're not Mk 3a's, so at it's most basic without modifying the roof they can only ever be Mk3b's (with the clip on headstock / buffers) or HST Mk3's, certainly for those applications though, there's nothing wrong with them that a little extra detailing wouldn't fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Looked like he accidentally bought them himself, since the auction ended, and the same seller just relisted them again. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847392970 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282847386001 Aye and optimistic for sure - now starting at £85................ Edited February 14, 2018 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 What do people have against the Hornby MKIIIs? Considering it more, I think actually I'll buy one Oxford MKIII and resin cast the corridor connections, ETS sockets and possibly steps, then fit them to Hornby MKIIIs - resprayed where necessary - and bin/ebay the Oxford one. Absolutely nothing. The Hornby MK3 is a perfectly good representation of a MK3 not MK3a and details up very nicely indeed. Personally, I'll be using Hornby/Lima MK3's for my HST sets on the layout - as has been said above, some detailing bits, laserglaze, close coupling, corridor connections and there you go. I think everyones disappointment stems from the OR ones being ever so nearly there........but not quite there enough to used on exhibition layouts where a percentage of the audience are highly skilled, clued up modellers who would instantly recognise that they were the incorrect OR 3a's. For those modellers who don't have such concerns, happy days, fill yer boots. cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Must say I am very pleased with my Oxford Mk3s, especially for the price. I do accept that there are question marks over a few things (which are covered well in the Rail Express review of them), but the main thing to me is they look like a scale model, whereas my Hornby ones always look & feel toylike. I'm eagerly looking forward to the release of the RFM and the Virgin liveried coaches for my under construction exhibition layout 'Warrington Bank Quay'. I do need to get around to renumbering these though, oh and vastly improving that 90... Wild Boar Fell 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 oh and vastly improving that 90... Wild Boar Fell Do post about it if you do it, since mine is also currently going through an improvement with my own parts + Pete Harvey's excellent etches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2018 I thought that Rail Express provided a fair, balanced and thorough review. Well worth reading if anyone hasn't done so yet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 What do people have against the Hornby MKIIIs? Considering it more, I think actually I'll buy one Oxford MKIII and resin cast the corridor connections, ETS sockets and possibly steps, then fit them to Hornby MKIIIs - resprayed where necessary - and bin/ebay the Oxford one. Why would you do that when the Oxford's don't cost any more than the Hornby's? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Why would you do that when the Oxford's don't cost any more than the Hornby's? Probably because he wants HST mark 3s instead of loco hauled mark 3As, the differences are quite noticeable when you know what they are. Edited February 17, 2018 by royaloak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Regarding these 3a's then...... Having had a crawl over one in my sweaty mitt, it would seem to me and a couple of others that the under tray is too 'square looking', in other words, it should be more angled down and inwards from the bodyside down to the ground...... What's the opinion of the bods on here? I'm going to take a CO to bits, strip it and respray it - having taken the CD lights off - into ScotRail.......but I want to have a go at altering this undertray if I can ( not even sure whether it's possible yet ), just wanted views from others though........ cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Regarding these 3a's then...... Having had a crawl over one in my sweaty mitt, it would seem to me and a couple of others that the under tray is too 'square looking', in other words, it should be more angled down and inwards from the bodyside down to the ground...... >> Yes I'd agree, but at least they will feature different details/boxes etc depending on the coach type...... What's the opinion of the bods on here? I'm going to take a CO to bits, strip it and respray it - having taken the CD lights off - into ScotRail.......but I want to have a go at altering this undertray if I can ( not even sure whether it's possible yet ), just wanted views from others though........ >> The first painted Blue/Grey samples don't have CDL fittings, so hopefully the ScotRail versions will be similar ? It's a shame they tinted the door drop lights and toilet window glazing....looks odd - having had one apart to fix a loose coupling spring, it's apparent from the locators on the seating part, that interior lighting was initially planned/considered ? cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Regarding these 3a's then...... Having had a crawl over one in my sweaty mitt, it would seem to me and a couple of others that the under tray is too 'square looking', in other words, it should be more angled down and inwards from the bodyside down to the ground...... >> Yes I'd agree, but at least they will feature different details/boxes etc depending on the coach type...... What's the opinion of the bods on here? I'm going to take a CO to bits, strip it and respray it - having taken the CD lights off - into ScotRail.......but I want to have a go at altering this undertray if I can ( not even sure whether it's possible yet ), just wanted views from others though........ >> The first painted Blue/Grey samples don't have CDL fittings, so hopefully the ScotRail versions will be similar ? It's a shame they tinted the door drop lights and toilet window glazing....looks odd - having had one apart to fix a loose coupling spring, it's apparent from the locators on the seating part, that interior lighting was initially planned/considered ? cheers Andy Yep. I'd agree Tractor. There is also a small hole in the top of the bogie that looks suspiciously like it's meant for a wire to go through, plus the wheelsets themselves are on pinpoint axles which locate into a small length of metal connecting both wheelsets on the same side - wheels are also on insulated axles, as you say, all points to either lighting was initially planned, will be in the future or it's been handily designed to make it easier for the modeller to fit their own bespoke lighting. I haven't yet seen the review in Rail Express, so all these points I'm raising here may well have already been picked up on. I've compared the chassis of a Lima Mk3, a Joueff 3a and the OR 3a - both Joueff and Lima 3's have virtually identical rake angles on the undertray, whilst the OR version is extremely noticeable in its lack of angle when put side by side with the other two. What I will say about the OR chassis now I've taken the whole coach down to component parts, is that the undertray is hollow ( admittedly the weights sit in it ) but it makes it a lot easier to make a cut the full length , in order to be able to fold the undertray back on itself to the required angle - 'twill be an interesting couple of days for me, because if it all works out, then I can live with everything else and respray this into ScotRail. I'll try and post a couple of photos up of how I go about cutting the tray - if you hear nothing, consider it that I've thrown the whole thing in the bin! Incidentally, the glazing came out gratifyingly easy and the body is now currently luxuriating itself in the Dot 4 brake bath. cheers Andy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Regarding these 3a's then...... Having had a crawl over one in my sweaty mitt, it would seem to me and a couple of others that the under tray is too 'square looking', in other words, it should be more angled down and inwards from the bodyside down to the ground...... What's the opinion of the bods on here? I'm going to take a CO to bits, strip it and respray it - having taken the CD lights off - into ScotRail.......but I want to have a go at altering this undertray if I can ( not even sure whether it's possible yet ), just wanted views from others though........ cheers Andy I've never measured it up against the prototype dimensions yet Andy but is does lack that subtle angle the Mk3 Module frame and covers had - I know it's a sleeper but it's the same profile and you can see how much of an angle the modules had at the end quite a bit more than the OR representation. So much so, that I don't wonder if that and the marginally narrow width over the bogie frame isn't what's causing the whole thing to appear top heavy. I certainly thinking that I'd be looking to bring the modules in at the bottom and doing something about those bogies. LL_Sleeper_1by Bob Reid, on Flickr 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I've never measured it up against the prototype dimensions yet Andy but is does lack that subtle angle the Mk3 Module frame and covers had - I know it's a sleeper but it's the same profile and you can see how much of an angle the modules had at the end quite a bit more than the OR representation. So much so, that I don't wonder if that and the marginally narrow width over the bogie frame isn't what's causing the whole thing to appear top heavy. I certainly thinking that I'd be looking to bring the modules in at the bottom and doing something about those bogies. LL_Sleeper_1by Bob Reid, on Flickr Thanks for the info Bob. Yeah, agreed. I'm also fitting EM wheelsets which may ( or may not ) help the top heavy issue. The bogies themselves are quite a nice bit of engineering - quite fine in places and the plastc is a lot thinner than, say, a Lima MK3 bogie. Putting the OR bogie on top of the Lima bogie shows that they are both very comaparible in width - the difference being negligible really. So we'll see what transpires! Very handy photo that btw Bob. cheers Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I'm thinking of a couple of ways to resolve it - fitting replacement brass subframes (etch my own rather than off-the shelf) with either the OR bogie sides suitably slimmed down and the BR WSP gubbins removed or the Southern Pride BT10 sides, or use the Joueff sides again. I'm keen to see how you get on with re-wheeling the OR ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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