Oxford Rail announces - OO gauge Mk3 coaches

[tractor_37260]

Thanks for that, I guess the photos with the 47 illustrates that the light grey on some locos in InterCity Swallow livery.

 

Would be interested to see one of the coaches next to an Intercity Executive or ScotRail livery 47.

 

Here you go.....

 

top photo shows a 47/4 with the correct livery colours

 

bottom photo shows a 47/7 with "Black" roof and upper bodysides -  this was a livery error that Heljan subsequently corrected, and supplied FOC replacement bodyshells using Dark Grey instead of Black.

 

I'll leave it to others to draw their own conclusions...................

[JDW]

The coaches look very low next to the loco, or is that just a trick of the picture?

[Andy Mac]

If the soon? to be released ScotRail Mk3a's don't match this years model of the 47/7 and the soon to be released 2f DBSO I feel there'll be a lot of paint and new transfers involved.

I think there’s little chance of that.... Oxford rail conducted a poll regarding liveries and the majority voted against colour matching with the existing models, preferring oxford to match against the correct livery.....

[JSpencer]

The coaches look very low next to the loco, or is that just a trick of the picture?

 

That is a good question, and more important are they the same height as Hornby's HST power cars (if they eventually do HST versions - I live in hope - but for the moment I've sourced a few Hornby ones for my HST)?

 

If not, I guess we can add washers...

[Bob Reid]

Don't know about the latest Hornby Power Cars however against a relatively "antique" Lima Power Car, the Mk3a's look spot on for height - interestingly though I've still to put a measure on it, the bodyside does look marginally deeper (the lower bodyside finishes slightly further down on the OR Mk3a than the Power Car) - I don't wonder though if the narrow BT10 bogies are making it appear a bit top heavy!

[Bob Reid]

I think there’s little chance of that.... Oxford rail conducted a poll regarding liveries and the majority voted against colour matching with the existing models, preferring oxford to match against the correct livery.....

 

You never know, they could get away with altering the ScotRail liveried versions to the correct shade on the assumption that in general they didn't run with Swallow liveried Mk3a's - and they'd meet the aspirations of the poll as well....

[tetsudofan]

Not sure if its the angle of the picture but the gap between those vehicles seems huge?

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

Yes, that's why I fitted Roco close couplings......

 

 

Keith

[BigAndy]

I think there’s little chance of that.... Oxford rail conducted a poll regarding liveries and the majority voted against colour matching with the existing models, preferring oxford to match against the correct livery.....

 

And they still managed to get it completely wrong.

 

The last thing I want to do is kick a man whilst he's down.....BUT......having spent the weekend at Stafford show, I thought I'd conduct my own field test and spoke with several known experts on the subject ( no names )

 

The general concensus is as follows: The livery is totally wrong with the light grey not being 'Buff' enough and the dark grey being too dark.

                                                            The ribs on the roof are wrong

                                                            The body side looks too deep and therefore makes the underskirt well look as though its sitting too far down, if indeed the skirt isn't too deep as well.

                                                            The 1st class logo is the wrong shade.

 

These are not my findings as I am in no way an expert on MK3a's, but several of the guys I spoke too are, including one who works on them for a living ( engineer that is, not on board train crew ).

I find it as dissapointing as everyone else, as these were planned as a shoe in straight onto my layout when the ScotRail versions are released. If they get the livery right on those, I may well live with the other faults - we'll see, but if they release the ScotRail versions with the same issues as the Inter-City releases, then It's going to be a strip and re-spray for me.

 

If that's the case, I'm sticking with my Joueff MK3a's and put all the work into them as I know I can get them nearer to being correct than the OR ones.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[Bob Reid]

who needs expurts Andy, you just need to read this thread - everything they said is in this topic...! - Having seen them built at Litchurch Lane (worked on them there for a short time as part of our training)  implemented then to the Scottish Region for the E&G's when new, and worked on or with them in various forms thereafter for the next 21 years, I certainly don't feel any better qualified to speak about them than the next man / average "Joe", I just know what I'm looking at. It's not rocket science, so how a company can get these things wrong still mystifies me! - Apart from the livery though, there's nothing that can't be lived with and they are still miles ahead of the Joueff Mk3a's... pity though it's ended up like that.

​[Edit] p.s. The 1st Class logo is not the wrong shade - it's the wrong colour!

Edited February 6, 2018 by Bob Reid

[GordonC]

And they still managed to get it completely wrong.

 

The last thing I want to do is kick a man whilst he's down.....BUT......having spent the weekend at Stafford show, I thought I'd conduct my own field test and spoke with several known experts on the subject ( no names )

 

The general concensus is as follows: The livery is totally wrong with the light grey not being 'Buff' enough and the dark grey being too dark.

                                                            The ribs on the roof are wrong

                                                            The body side looks too deep and therefore makes the underskirt well look as though its sitting too far down, if indeed the skirt isn't too deep as well.

                                                            The 1st class logo is the wrong shade.

 

These are not my findings as I am in no way an expert on MK3a's, but several of the guys I spoke too are, including one who works on them for a living ( engineer that is, not on board train crew ).

I find it as dissapointing as everyone else, as these were planned as a shoe in straight onto my layout when the ScotRail versions are released. If they get the livery right on those, I may well live with the other faults - we'll see, but if they release the ScotRail versions with the same issues as the Inter-City releases, then It's going to be a strip and re-spray for me.

 

If that's the case, I'm sticking with my Joueff MK3a's and put all the work into them as I know I can get them nearer to being correct than the OR ones.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

I just hope they get the Scotrail ones right, if they do I'll have 2 rakes straight off.

 

.... but I wont be buying them if they need respraying as I'm not convinced they're much better than what I already have

[Bob Reid]

If you've not handled one already Gordon, I'd give it a go first.

[GordonC]

If you've not handled one already Gordon, I'd give it a go first.

 

I had a look at some on the stalls at Stafford at the weekend

 

its easier passing up on new models that aren't 100% right when the stock cupboard(s) are already bulging ....

[tractor_37260]

Light made a lot of difference even on the 12" to the foot model. I think it might be prudent for me to start a separate topic today on the whole aspect of that particular livery up to the "Swallow" years rather than clutter up this one - for no other reason than we've all (I think)! decided that the OR Mk3a's first issue livery is either darker / lighter, right/wrong!  If the soon? to be released ScotRail Mk3a's don't match this years model of the 47/7 and the soon to be released 2f DBSO I feel there'll be a lot of paint and new transfers involved.

 

Go for it - would make for a very interesting and useful topic.............

[JSpencer]

Don't know about the latest Hornby Power Cars however against a relatively "antique" Lima Power Car, the Mk3a's look spot on for height - interestingly though I've still to put a measure on it, the bodyside does look marginally deeper (the lower bodyside finishes slightly further down on the OR Mk3a than the Power Car) - I don't wonder though if the narrow BT10 bogies are making it appear a bit top heavy!

fWiW The Hornby, Hornby ex Lima and pure Lima all match my state of the art Hornby HST power cars for height in my collection. I wonder how Oxford's compare height wise?

[Waverley47708]

The difference in livery between the Bachmann 47 and the coaches is too much for me. If the ScotRail version is the same and if they are too low especially when sandwiched between a Bachmann 477 and a Bachmann DBSO I am afraid I will be bowing out and not buying the two rakes I was planning. I will stick with my flush glazed Limas. I don't have the skill to respray them.

 

This will be pretty disappointing as I had been looking forward to them since they were first announced.

[Bob Reid]

Handy Tip No.1 - If you're going to respray the Mk3A's and to avoid them showing through a subsequent coat of paint, you'll need to remove the INTERCITY branding, the Vehicle No. and the coach reservation letters.  I found that a thin coat of DOT4 synthetic brake fluid (cheap Carlube stuff from a hardware store) removes them easily without damaging the underlying finish.  Brush it on, just over the transfer and wait about 5 minutes minimum (10 minutes maybe for the reservation letters) and they'll just dry brush off without absolutely no effect on the main body colours or finish.  Wash the sides down with some soap & water and once dry, Bob's your uncle Handy also if you just want to re-number / letter them...  The usual disclaimers apply - it worked for me!

Edited February 7, 2018 by Bob Reid

[Market65]

As far as I can see, on checking just now, the Oxford Mk3a's match up, in height, quite correctly, against the Hornby HST current day super detailed class 43 power cars. I honestly cannot see problems regarding their height.  I hope this is of some help and reassurance.

 

Regards,

 

Rob.

[Sir TophamHatt]

It sort of surprises me there isn't a glut of Hornby MK3s on ebay.

Perhaps it's because these are 3as but not exactly the heralding launch I thought it was going to be.

[Waverley West]

It sort of surprises me there isn't a glut of Hornby MK3s on ebay.

Perhaps it's because these are 3as but not exactly the heralding launch I thought it was going to be.

 

That's certainly the case for me.

 

I'm both relieved and disappointed at the same time. I was bracing myself to buy around 30 of them over the next few years, but instead I'm going to be carrying on steadily improving my Hornby versions. I'm happy with what I've done with them so far, but there is scope for further improvement (lighting, disc brakes and corridor connections in particular). 

 

The absence of lighting is perhaps the biggest factor for me as far as the Oxford versions go, although I'm not sure I could have stomached respraying another 4 or 5 rakes of Mk 3s anyway, and looking at the pictures posted on this thread, they would need respraying. Light may play a part of course, so I reserve final judgement until I've seen them in the flesh, but to me that light grey in particular looks way off the mark. 

 

I've been in touch with Oxford about the option not to go for lights and they've said that they will consider lit versions in the future, so you never know.

 

Their survey as to whether they should colour-match existing models or go for the actual colour seems a little ironic now, seeing as they don't seem to have achieved either.

[Bob Reid]

That's certainly the case for me.

 

I'm both relieved and disappointed at the same time. I was bracing myself to buy around 30 of them over the next few years, but instead I'm going to be carrying on steadily improving my Hornby versions. I'm happy with what I've done with them so far, but there is scope for further improvement (lighting, disc brakes and corridor connections in particular). 

 

The absence of lighting is perhaps the biggest factor for me as far as the Oxford versions go, although I'm not sure I could have stomached respraying another 4 or 5 rakes of Mk 3s anyway, and looking at the pictures posted on this thread, they would need respraying. Light may play a part of course, so I reserve final judgement until I've seen them in the flesh, but to me that light grey in particular looks way off the mark. 

 

I've been in touch with Oxford about the option not to go for lights and they've said that they will consider lit versions in the future, so you never know.

 

Their survey as to whether they should colour-match existing models or go for the actual colour seems a little ironic now, seeing as they don't seem to have achieved either.

 

Spot on WW...

 

Before they were launched I did ponder how much better they actually could be.  The current Hornby Mk3 has glazing that "the average modeller" could live with, bogies that aren't that bad, and at best we were going to get flusher glazing, slightly better (at the ends) bogies, improved detailing of the vehicle ends and modules. Best of all for me that at long last after 41 years (yes 41)! since Jouef launched the only one, a proper rendition of a Mk3a not a Mk3 renumbered with clip on buffers.  If all that was achieved however, would the difference be sufficient to justify the cost of replacement? Well yes - if it's a true Mk3a you're after, but no (IMO) if it's to replace your bog standard HST Mk3 from Hornby.  

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Bob Reid

[black and decker boy]

Having seen these in the flesh at the Kendall show, it was clear that the lower exec light grey was too grey and lacking in yellow pigment.

 

It won’t stop me buying a Scotrail rake as I have few Lima/Hornby ones in my collection and prefer NEM to take kadees for more reliable close coupled running, especially in push-pull mode.

 

I won’t be getting rid of my Hornby Blue grey Chiltern set just yet though.

[Waverley West]

It would be interesting to know how people get on with the Oxford Mk 3s in push mode. I've not had the best experiences of close-couplings over the years (often due to their reluctance to return to straight after a curve when running longer rakes) and generally prefer couplings to be mounted on the bogie. My Hornby Mk 3s work pretty well in push mode now, although I have had to add a shim to the face of the tension locks to keep the corridor connections apart on curves.

[John ks]

I have had similar problems as Waverley West with Kadee fitted Bachmann MK1, CCM (Close Coupling Mechanisms) not returning to straight & causing derailments. First I replaced them with the rigid coupling bar & later with Fleischmann Profi couplings & the problem went away.

My understanding is that for CCM (Close Coupling Mechanisms) to work at their best if the couplings form a rigid connection.

Tension locks & Kadee’s don’t form this rigid connection & don’t force the CCMs back to straight especially when pushing

Couplings like Hornby/ Roco or Flieschmann or the rigid coupling bars give me the best results.

 

In the mists of time I got some Tyco US boxcars which had X2F couplings on the bogies, these would derail almost every time you tried to push them. Replacing with body mounted Kadee’s fixed the problem

 

About the same time I had an IC125 with 6 or 7 Jouef MK 3’s, all with body mounted Kadee’s. I could run this train flat out with the power car at the rear & don’t recall many derailments.

 

My conclusion was that is that some of the pushing force with bogie mounted couplings causes rotational forces on the bogie & small defects in track will allow derailments

With body mounted or CCM the pushing forces all go through the carriage body & the bogies just guide the carriage through the trackwork.

 

John

[JSpencer]

It would be interesting to know how people get on with the Oxford Mk 3s in push mode. I've not had the best experiences of close-couplings over the years (often due to their reluctance to return to straight after a curve when running longer rakes) and generally prefer couplings to be mounted on the bogie. My Hornby Mk 3s work pretty well in push mode now, although I have had to add a shim to the face of the tension locks to keep the corridor connections apart on curves.

In push mode, you will need Roco couplings everywhere including between the loco and coaches. This keeps the CCS perfectly locked in place between vehicles. Kadees will leave too much waggle room and off they will come.

[tractor_37260]

The livery colours may be better, apart from that yucky lower skirt,   but the price !   gulp.......... 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R4295A-BR-INTERCITY-Mk3-SWALLOW-LIVERY-TOURIST-CLASS-COACH-No-12132/282838209155?epid=1368422122&hash=item41da789283:g:YkkAAOSwW9Raeh3g

Edited February 9, 2018 by tractor_37260