tractor_37260 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Your photos show nicely what impact lighting has on the light grey - it looks passable in your photos, but nearly white in some ofhers. Roy My Oxford Rail coaches arrived today. The "steps" are inside the small packet with pipes, so not pre-fitted. A small coupling spring was also loose in the box, only noticed that by chance...thankfully. First impressions, they look very good, well finished, the red/white looks proportionally correct, a very obvious all round improvement to the older Lima versions. However I'm not that convinced with either shade of Grey that's been used, the Dark Grey is bit too dark more like charcoal, and the light Grey being too light, IF they use the same shade of light Grey on the forthcoming Exec ScotRail coaches, the Blue lining will make the light Grey even lighter/colder in shade. Note how the lower Exec light Grey skirt is perceived to be darker/warmer on the Red lined Lima INTERCITY coach than it is on the Blue striped ScotRail version, although both Lima coaches have the same Exec light Grey coloured skirt. Comparision of all 3 versions............ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart2day Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Opening doors would have pushed up the price a lot. They open outwards on coaches too, so would be much more fiddly to model than the inward opening ones on some Hornby locos. Fair enough. Just thought it would have been quite innovative if they could have done it right. If nobody tries something new then the hobby won't evolve. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2018 I find opening doors to be a gimmick as unless you try and fit DCC operation it needs the big hand of god to open them. DCC coach doors I've seen are not convincing as the speed and action of door opening and closing isn't convincing and if anything the fact that nobody gets in or out actually detracts from the illusion of reality it is trying to create. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) My Oxford Rail coaches arrived today. The "steps" are inside the small packet with pipes, so not pre-fitted. A small coupling spring was also loose in the box, only noticed that by chance...thankfully. First impressions, they look very good, well finished, the red/white looks proportionally correct, a very obvious all round improvement to the older Lima versions. However I'm not that convinced with either shade of Grey that's been used, the Dark Grey is bit too dark more like charcoal, and the light Grey being too light, IF they use the same shade of light Grey on the forthcoming Exec ScotRail coaches, the Blue lining will make the light Grey even lighter/colder in shade. Note how the lower Exec light Grey skirt is perceived to be darker/warmer on the Red lined Lima INTERCITY coach than it is on the Blue striped ScotRail version, although both Lima coaches have the same Exec light Grey coloured skirt. Comparision of all 3 versions............ There was me thinking that two apparently simple questions would have two simple definitive answers, that said I guess people's opinion on the accuracy of a shade of grey on a scale model was always going to be subjective. So is the light grey on the model accurate? - Juries still out on that one. Ok I can understand some of the reason for that. Second question, is ScotRail, InterCity Executive and InterCity Swallow light grey the same colour or not? I thought yes, assumed anyway. I was sure we would get a definitive answer. But although I had noticed some locos/power cars in Swallow had a more silvery grey (I think that is correct?) I had not counted on the confusion caused by matt and gloss versions, the same shade having different names and I certainly had no idea the optical illusion the difference the blue or red stripe has, aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhh.. Now I have more questions which I guess we will have to wait and see. Will the same light grey be used when the ScotRail versions are released. What impact will the blue line have on the appearance of the light grey. Then more questions, will the ScotRail versions h ave the CDL bits and pieces and will the Windows surrounds have silver lining? Hopefully no and yes respectively. At this rate we could have a whole new topic. "ScotRail, InterCity Executive and Swallow - 5O Shades of Grey" Edited January 27, 2018 by Waverley47708 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michanglais Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I find opening doors to be a gimmick as unless you try and fit DCC operation it needs the big hand of god to open them. DCC coach doors I've seen are not convincing as the speed and action of door opening and closing isn't convincing and if anything the fact that nobody gets in or out actually detracts from the illusion of reality it is trying to create. I have to agree. I think Roco or Fleischmann experimented with them a few years ago but dropped the idea because the doors had to open 'British slam style' rather than 'automatic door style'. It looked odd. I suppose you could have a train waiting at a terminus with all the doors open awaiting passengers but it'd look a bit regimental because the doors would all be open the same angle. Personally, I don't even like opening doors on locos. They're fiddly and can get stuck. I'd rather have door entry steps that didn't fall off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) There was me thinking that two apparently simple questions would have two simple definitive answers, that said I guess people's opinion on the accuracy of a shade of grey on a scale model was always going to be subjective. So is the light grey on the model accurate? - No I don't think so, but others may disagree.................. Second question, is ScotRail, InterCity Executive and InterCity Swallow light grey the same colour or not? I thought yes, assumed anyway. I was sure we would get a definitive answer. But although I had noticed some locos/power cars in Swallow had a more silvery grey (I think that is correct?) I had not counted on the confusion caused by matt and gloss versions, the same shade having different names and I certainly had no idea the optical illusion the difference the blue or red stripe has, aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhh.. Exec Light Grey was the colour used on all Inter-City /ScotRail / Swallow coaching stock lower bodysides. Full Swallow liveried locos and HST power cars used Silver White on the lower bodysides I don't recall any freshly painted locos or stock not being a GLOSS finish, in the past gloss varnish was also used as a sealing coat. The actual finish of any paint ie Gloss/Satin or Matt does NOT change it's colour. Now I have more questions which I guess we will have to wait and see. Will the same light grey be used when the ScotRail versions are released. What impact will the blue line have on the appearance of the light grey. This remains to be seen, but if OR use the same shades of Light and Dark Grey as on the presently available Swallow coaches, if used with a Bachmann 47/7 and DBSO the colour differences will be very obvious. Then more questions, will the ScotRail versions h ave the CDL bits and pieces and will the Windows surrounds have silver lining? Hopefully no and yes respectively. The forthcoming Blue/Grey coaches appear to have no CDL fittings, so hopefully they won't be present on the ScotRail versions either. As for the Silver windows, on real coaches, only the inside edge of the frame was left unpainted anodised aluminium.so it remains to be seen if Ox Rail will produce this feature or not ? At this rate we could have a whole new topic. "ScotRail, InterCity Executive and Swallow - 5O Shades of Grey" LOL Edited January 27, 2018 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2018 My tuppence-worth: The light grey does look too white to me, and should probably be a bit "redder" or more beige than grey. The top part did strike me as too black as well, but I'm not sure now. I do wonder though, for all those saying that Exec was one colour and Swallow another, maybe it was just a case of the same (or as close as) colour having different names? You know, the "branding excercise" thing to make it sound new and exciting. Or maybe it's like wallpaper where you buy two rolls the same from different batches and they are slightly different. Maybe it's just a case of "it is what it is", in every picture I've seen, allowing for variations through weathering, light, etc, the coulours are to all intents and purposes the same, regardless of name! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) My tuppence-worth: The light grey does look too white to me, and should probably be a bit "redder" or more beige than grey. The top part did strike me as too black as well, but I'm not sure now. I do wonder though, for all those saying that Exec was one colour and Swallow another, maybe it was just a case of the same (or as close as) colour having different names? You know, the "branding excercise" thing to make it sound new and exciting. Or maybe it's like wallpaper where you buy two rolls the same from different batches and they are slightly different. Maybe it's just a case of "it is what it is", in every picture I've seen, allowing for variations through weathering, light, etc, the coulours are to all intents and purposes the same, regardless of name! I have to agree with you - I bought two of these as I couldn't hang off until the B&G and ScotRail liveried ones came along without getting one to see what they looked like! They are lovely models and a real update on what went before and I can live with or fix the other "issues" but and it's big but the (Executive) Light Grey is too light, and to me there's no ifs or buts about it - it looks nothing like the real thing in any light, and the rendition of Falcon Grey? - well no doubt about it - it's Black. The "InterCity Livery (New INTERCITY branding)" specified black ends and black roof - well this Mk3a has black ends black roof and I'm certain a black window band as well - there is no apparent change in colour between the ends and the sides at the window band - there should be. Without a doubt, they made a good job of the model, and some folk might live with the colour issues but I reckon a fair few might want to subsequently change it. All of this is only how I perceive the colour others might think different! Edited January 27, 2018 by Bob Reid 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazwire Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Yesterday I went to have a look at some of these coaches in the flesh. While they are really good coaches, I find the shallow ribboned lines on the roof and the lack of silver window rim so frustrating. These could have been wonderful coaches, especially with their detail. I feel it's a case of 'so near, but so far', as my old Lima ones will look more life like from a viewing distance of any more than a metre. Also, my viewing angle will be predominantly from above the horizontal downwards- therefore the lima roofs make more sense. My head says part exchange for the Oxford. My heart says look into buying lazerglaze windows- the only problem is I'm a novice modeller and fear trying to remove the roof/windows from the base without breaking the coach. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Looking at tractor260's comparisons with the Lima coaches it looks like the bogies on the OR coach are too narrow. They're not supposed to be overshadowed by the body like that on the real thing and I'm undecided as to whether the underscale roof ribs are better than the overscale Jouef ones. I wonder if they have a separate tooling for the bogies to depict the early mk3a wheelslip gear. . The close coupling system brings them really nicely together with the roco coupling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2018 Not specific to the oxford mk3s but in general I do wonder sometimes whether people’s preceptions of a model being ‘wrong’ is overshadowed by having slightly ‘wrong’ models that have been around for so long they are generally accepted by the masses as being right so when it’s done right it feels wrong! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Yesterday I went to have a look at some of these coaches in the flesh. While they are really good coaches, I find the shallow ribboned lines on the roof and the lack of silver window rim so frustrating. These could have been wonderful coaches, especially with their detail. I feel it's a case of 'so near, but so far', as my old Lima ones will look more life like from a viewing distance of any more than a metre. Also, my viewing angle will be predominantly from above the horizontal downwards- therefore the lima roofs make more sense. My head says part exchange for the Oxford. My heart says look into buying lazerglaze windows- the only problem is I'm a novice modeller and fear trying to remove the roof/windows from the base without breaking the coach. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. The Lima Mk3's can be improved by fitting Lazerglaze and etched window frames. However as they were based on MK3 HST trailer cars, the roof/vents would also require altering, and that's not an easy fix. Overall the Oxford Rail coach is a more accurate model of the MK3A loco hauled variant, apart from the shades of Grey used, but that's cheaper and easier to correct than the glazing and roof mods required on a Lima coach. The finer roof ribbing on the OR versions would only be an issue if you mix and match them with Lima coaches, I'm undecided if the finer roof ribbing is more accurate of not ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Not specific to the oxford mk3s but in general I do wonder sometimes whether people’s preceptions of a model being ‘wrong’ is overshadowed by having slightly ‘wrong’ models that have been around for so long they are generally accepted by the masses as being right so when it’s done right it feels wrong! And if you managed to follow that and know the answer, drop a line to Big Jim, in the cab of Something Painted Yellow and Orange, Somewhere on a Railway Line, Somewhere, GM66 37EE. Just for fun, no prizes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43078shildoncountydurham Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hi all, 1, Hornby 2, Jouef 3, Lima 4, Oxford 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) And only Jouef got the correct Girling WSP housings.... I feel a bit of carving off those old Jouef bogies sides coming along. Well maybe not - none of the old bogies modelled the Lateral Control Rods leaving nothing but fresh air at the ends of the bogies - it would probably be better to modify the axle end caps / covers and widen the bogies with likes of the bogie units by Brassmasters / Jim Smith-Wright... Edited January 28, 2018 by Bob Reid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2018 And if you managed to follow that and know the answer, drop a line to Big Jim, in the cab of Something Painted Yellow and Orange, Somewhere on a Railway Line, Somewhere, GM66 37EE.Just for fun, no prizes you wanna try writing it yet alone reading it, i was on about draft No10 before i pushed post! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43078shildoncountydurham Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Hi all, Just finished re wheeling to em gauge using Colin Craig brilliant wheels, just needed to drill abit more out of the axle holes, using one of those axle drill tools, however as I was doing it the bearing covers popped off, so I just cleaned the hole up and replaced them back on.. Anyhow has anybody else done em or p4 yet? Regards Craig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2018 you wanna try writing it yet alone reading it, i was on about draft No10 before i pushed post! If it makes you feel any better I understood first time! I am in a real quandary ragarding my Scotrail pre-order, I am tending towards cancelling as there seems to be too many unanswered questions - livery mainly and CDL (not wanted). I know I may live to regret it, but hey ho... Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 55020 Posted January 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2018 If it makes you feel any better I understood first time! I am in a real quandary ragarding my Scotrail pre-order, I am tending towards cancelling as there seems to be too many unanswered questions - livery mainly and CDL (not wanted). I know I may live to regret it, but hey ho... Roy Go on, cancel. That'll leave more for the rest of us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazwire Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) The Lima Mk3's can be improved by fitting Lazerglaze and etched window frames. However as they were based on MK3 HST trailer cars, the roof/vents would also require altering, and that's not an easy fix. Overall the Oxford Rail coach is a more accurate model of the MK3A loco hauled variant, apart from the shades of Grey used, but that's cheaper and easier to correct than the glazing and roof mods required on a Lima coach. The finer roof ribbing on the OR versions would only be an issue if you mix and match them with Lima coaches, I'm undecided if the finer roof ribbing is more accurate of not ? Thanks 'Tractor_37260' for the advice. I've just packed up my relatively new Hornby and lima mark 3s and am going to do part exchange for the Oxfords. Overall, they are really good coaches to me and I'm sure I can get my mind over the roof ribs and silver window rims which are not necessarily accurate as you say. Also, as'Big Jim' perceptively pointed out- you get used to the features of your own models. Edited January 28, 2018 by gazwire 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Quicky question, my Oxford Rail coaches came with the foot steps/boards supplied in the bag un-fitted. Were these painted yellow on Swallow liveried stock ? if so much easier to do before fitting. TIA Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Quicky question, my Oxford Rail coaches came with the foot steps/boards supplied in the bag un-fitted. Were these painted yellow on Swallow liveried stock ? if so much easier to do before fitting. TIA Ken No Ken, they were [A] Black Gloss - I'm glad you got yours in a bag. The first one (an SO) I took out came out of the box with 4 fitted, ended with none. Recovered three. None of them appeared to have been glued in. p.s. Has anyone a contact email address that actually works for Oxford Rail apart from the group address on the website? I've tried twice and don't seem to get a response. [Edit] Detail Reference Table added. Who will be the first to spot the use of Silver White? Edited January 29, 2018 by Bob Reid 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 No Ken, they were [A] Black Gloss - I'm glad you got yours in a bag. The first one (an SO) I took out came out of the box with 4 fitted, ended with none. Recovered three. None of them appeared to have been glued in. p.s. Has anyone a contact email address that actually works for Oxford Rail apart from the group address on the website? I've tried twice and don't seem to get a response. ICSW_Stepboard.jpg ICSW_3aFOSORef.jpg [Edit] Detail Reference Table added. Who will be the first to spot the use of Silver White? Yep spied the use of Silver White and the Falcon Grey would be interesting to view the complete livery application diagram Perhaps with the feedback the steps will be coming loose in the small detail bag ? from now on....strange how their e-mail addy is not working ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Reid Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) Yep spied the use of Silver White and the Falcon Grey would be interesting to view the complete livery application diagram Perhaps with the feedback the steps will be coming loose in the small detail bag ? from now on....strange how their e-mail addy is not working ? The complete livery diagram is to all intents a live document for a current vehicle and as the originals are held by Serco Raildata they have some IP protection unfortunately - I guess there's nothing wrong with me providing the information or extracts from them but I wouldn't like to risk publishing the whole drawing, sorry. As for the OR email address - It might work, I think I've just been unlucky in getting any response from them to email sent through it! Edited January 30, 2018 by Bob Reid 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) The complete livery diagram is to all intents a live document for a current vehicle and as the originals are held by Serco Raildata they have some IP protection unfortunately - I guess there's nothing wrong with me providing the information or extracts from them but I wouldn't like to risk publishing the whole drawing, sorry. As for the OR email address - It might work, I think I've just been unlucky in getting any response from them to email sent through it! Gosh Bob do you ever get any kip ! thought I was bad.......... Understand your comments re adding the full diagram, would appreciate if you confirm "what was applied where" on Swallow liveried coaches ......no quite clear from the part diagram....... AFAIK Black - Roof and ends/steps..... Falcon Grey - upper body band Exec Light Grey ? lower body band - or was this in fact Silver White on Swallow coaches also - I'm aware it was used on Swallow locos/HST's........... White Stripe - Rail White Red Stripe - Claret ? changed from the earlier Rail Red ? TIA Ken Edited January 30, 2018 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now