PECO Announces Bullhead Track for OO

[Limpley Stoker]

Has anybody bought the bullhead rail connectors yet?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Limpley Stoker

[Merfyn Jones]

Has anybody bought the bullhead rail connectors yet?

 

Yes, found them very slack, on the rail. Do not expect them to carry current between lengths. We are using dropper wires to each length of track.

[Joseph_Pestell]

It's impossible to know for sure, but I'm reasonably confident someone at Peco takes a peek at this thread now and again.

 

And indeed others on RMWeb about the same subject.

 

I also know that some contributors here have been in contact with Peco about various aspects of this product and are privy to some of Peco's thinking. It would seem that we can take that illustration as being the basis for their tooling.

[bertiedog]

Yes, found them very slack, on the rail. Do not expect them to carry current between lengths. We are using dropper wires to each length of track.

May I ask who has any stock of the bullhead rail joiners from Peco, still on pre order with mail order stockist? The stockist says they expect them soon, but no date.

 

Stephen

[mightbe]

If you're looking at the 'photo in post 2361, your eyesight is a stretch better than mine...

 

I'm not sure I have great eyesight, but I do know what kinds of things to look for

 

I think everyone can see that there are only three timbers underneath the check rails, but the bigger problem is actually corollary. 

 

The check rails begin (in the facing direction) at the knuckle, which means their functionality is limited in that direction. Typically, check rails begin some distance in advance of the knuckle, often a full timber, so as to better control the wheels through the common crossing. Because there isn't any protection until the point where there's the greatest risk of mistracking, derailing, etc. that makes frog-bump very likely.

 

Users of Peco Streamline may be familiar with the slight break in the sound as a wagon is propelled through a common crossing. This is what is known as frog-bump and it is typically the flange striking the tip of the V, or sometimes the entire wheel briefly bottoming-out in the knuckle. It is almost always symptomatic of an underlying problem, be it a mismatch of standards or insufficient protection from check rails. In reality, there should be no such 'break'--the wheels should always be fully supported and the passage of a wheelset not discernibly different from how it would be on plain track.

 

Martin Wynne has also commented on the short check rails having functional ramifications. He has proposed this is a 'cheat' to let long wheelbase vehicles traverse these tight radii. I'm not entirely convinced that that's the reason, but it may well be the effect. In any case it is an error, deliberate or otherwise.

 

Quentin

[martin_wynne]

Martin Wynne has also commented on the short check rails having functional ramifications. He has proposed this is a 'cheat' to let long wheelbase vehicles traverse these tight radii.

 

Not long-wheelbase vehicles. I suggested it is for old-RTR with tight back-to-backs. If wheels rub or bind against the check rails, the shorter distance they do it over the better. If it is short enough, they may make it through the crossing at normal speeds with no noticeable problem. If you look at the existing Peco Streamline range, you will see that all check rails have been reduced to the shortest possible length. Which I suggest is for that reason, to keep the track compatible with the oldest possible models. It makes the check rails look daft to anyone familiar with the prototype, but that is probably not Peco's main concern.

 

Peco do have a good knowledge of prototype track, but that isn't necessarily the route to a profitable product. If they didn't know what they were doing, they wouldn't still be here, manufacturing in the UK, after more than 60 years.

 

Martin.

[Ruston]

Has anybody bought the bullhead rail connectors yet?

There are bullhead rail connectors? The last layout that I built used peco bullhead track and peco code 75 turnouts. Whilst the code 75 connectors slid easily onto the turnouts they needed to be opened out and still had to be forced on to the bullhead. As I am about to begin to build another layout, using the same track combination, I emailed peco only yesterday to ask about this problem and which connectors they recommend.

 

The answer was to use the SL110 (code 75) connectors! The ones that cause the problem! No mention of bullhead connectors.Odd that they didn't mention bullhead connectors. Does this mean that these bullhead connectors won't fit the ordinary flat bottom code 75, I wonder?

[Free At Last]

There are bullhead rail connectors?

Still not in some shops yet.

[Merfyn Jones]

May I ask who has any stock of the bullhead rail joiners from Peco, still on pre order with mail order stockist? The stockist says they expect them soon, but no date.

 

Stephen

 

Got mine about 3 weeks ago from Hattons

[bertiedog]

Got mine about 3 weeks ago from Hattons

Still not available according to Hattons, see last posting. They say they are awaiting the first supplies. My own order is of several months standing along with the rail, which I have already received from them. Shall I contact them and say it appears others have been supplied (with NO specific or RMweb details).

The difference I am after is the bolt detail.

Stephen

[coachmann]

Will the rail joiners from DC Concepts not suffice? They have rivet detail. Mine arrived wrapped with their stainless steel track.

Edited April 7, 2017 by coachmann

[bertiedog]

The DCC ones have too many bolts, small point, but worth using the Peco I  think.

One thing generally on the track laying is that the whole track is robust only once fully in place.

It is a little delicate compared to the flat bottom version, and most definitely does not like to be fastened down with nails or track pins. any pressure downwards tends to warp the base.

It lays very flat, but the nailing or screwing down points pull the track down more leaving dips near the securing screws or nails.

I went back to using double sided tape to lay on, with occasional temp screw with washers to gently secure things dead flat. The tape acts well, and track can be adjusted. The final grip comes from the ballast glue.

If sleepers come away from the rail section during laying, they pop back in with light push and gently prying open with a small screwdriver, they snap back afterwards.

Stephen

[Signaller69]

Lots of comments about the issues but have you copied your post as an email to Peco?

 

If you don't offer the info to be considered then don't moan if they carry on with this design.

No one has owned up to sharing their expertise with Peco so far.

Yes. Had a reply from Peco stating the check rails on the Large radius Turnouts are to be extended to FOUR SLEEPERS/CHAIRS, the sleeper layout is to remain as per the earlier image to "match the '0' scale design".

 

I also suggested they might consider an "extra large radius" Turnout for this range and to quote the reply, they will "throw this into the mix" which I take to mean they may consider in future.

 

Edit to add full reply from Peco:

 

Thankyou for your email. The layout of the sleepers on the bullhead turnout is the same as on our O gauge turnouts. It is my understanding that sleepers in line with the straight route was mostly used on a double track formations such as crossovers and junctions, although research shows that there are many exceptions to this! Each railway company and region of BR seemed to have their own preferences.

 

 

 

The arrangement we have chosen also lends itself well to producing what is in reality still quite a sharp radius turnout (despite being a large radius by model standards) as the angled sleepers are nearer to being perpendicular to the rail, which helps to keep the chairs (which are scale sized on the Bullhead range and larger than normal code 75 rail fixings) on the sleepers without having hanging off the edge un-prototypically.

 

 

 

The check rails have been lengthened to cover four sleepers, but the illustration is from before we made that change.

 

 

 

Thankyou for the suggestion for an extra-large radius bullhead turnout, we’ll add it to the mix!

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

David Malton

 

Design Engineer

Pritchard Patent Product Co. Ltd

Edited April 7, 2017 by Signaller69

[Coryton]

Yes. Had a reply from Peco stating the check rails on the Large radius Turnouts are to be extended to FOUR SLEEPERS/CHAIRS, the sleeper layout is to remain as per the earlier image to "match the '0' scale design".

 

 

In other words, Peco do actually know what real points look like (and that "large radius" points are actually not large in prototype terms), but they also know what compromises are needed for a commercial product.

[Dungrange]

Still not available according to Hattons, see last posting. They say they are awaiting the first supplies. My own order is of several months standing along with the rail, which I have already received from them. Shall I contact them and say it appears others have been supplied (with NO specific or RMweb details).

The difference I am after is the bolt detail.

Stephen

 

But the Hattons website doesn't say that they are awaiting first supplies.  They just state that they are 'on order' - ie they are awaiting more.  If they had say 600 pre-orders and received 500 sets of joiners for PECO, they could have sent these out to the first 500 pre-orders in which case they would have gone out of stock again the day they came into stock.  Any remaining pre-orders will presumably be fulfilled when Hattons get their next delivery of PECO products.

[bertiedog]

Whilst I suspect it is down to a shortage, if you read the words "they say" it does not mean information from the website, but from direct contact with Hattons. I may order some elsewhere to be sure of supplies, if some have been delivered, as it is delaying the whole layout.

 

Stephen

[Dungrange]

Whilst I suspect it is down to a shortage, if you read the words "they say" it does not mean information from the website, but from direct contact with Hattons. I may order some elsewhere to be sure of supplies, if some have been delivered, as it is delaying the whole layout.

 

Stephen

 

Since Merfyn got the new fish plates from Hattons, they must have had at least one delivery from PECO.  I suspect when you phoned Hattons, whoever you spoke to would just have checked their stock database at that point in time, noted that they were not in stock, but were on order and knowing that it was a new product simply assumed that they hadn't yet taken delivery.  Phoning doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will get any more accurate information than you get from the website, especially when phoning a large business.

[Guest Midland Mole]

May I ask who has any stock of the bullhead rail joiners from Peco, still on pre order with mail order stockist? The stockist says they expect them soon, but no date.

 

Stephen

 

We got them in yesterday in our Peco delivery. They are not on the website, but give us a ring and you can order some over the phone.

You can find the phone number here: http://www.footplate.co.uk/

Alex

[Godfrey Glyn]

Bought some from Alton Model Centre this morning, I am sure if you need to get some quickly you could give Paul a ring and he could send you some. You get 24 in a pack.

 

all the best

Godfrey

[faa77]

I could be wrong, but seems like this new Peco track is gaining admirers, which can only increase the effort Peco put in to this range and therefore beneficial for us.

Edited April 8, 2017 by faa77

[Limpley Stoker]

The bullhead rail joiners are excellent, a bit tricky to slide on to the rail- a little filing of any burrs is needed- but they seem to grip well- much better than the N gauge joiners I have been using for C&L . It should be possible to avoid the missing sleeper syndrome at track joins!

 

I found mine at Frome Model Centre where their supplies of track sold out very quickly.

 

I'm very pleased with the new bullhead track, it feels very well made and looks superb- points please!

Edited April 11, 2017 by Limpley Stoker

[hayfield]

Providing the track is fixed to the track bed then the Exactoscale fishplates (plastic or cast metal) are excellent. The plastic ones are a bit fragile but with care strong enough to hold the rails in position whilst the glue sets. the benefit being that there is no joiner on the foot of the rail, so looks so much better

[Benbow]

Bought some from Alton Model Centre this morning, I am sure if you need to get some quickly you could give Paul a ring and he could send you some. You get 24 in a pack.

 

all the best

Godfrey

Got some today from AMC, Paul seemed to have plenty in stock.

[bertiedog]

From another posting on RM,  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121872-unifrog/

 is possible news of the frogs on the bullhead points being the Peco Unifrog type, where a large plastic filled break is put in the blade to insulate the frog, which is reduced to a tiny tip area that can be switched or not as the user feels like.

 

Now I cannot contact Peco today or till after the Easter Holidays to confirm, or get a denial, about this step, but "IF" it is true it ruins the advances in design and appearance of the bullhead points.

 

I hope it is not true and solid blades are fitted, with all metal surfaces, as a proper point should be, and I hope the checkrails will be nickel silver as well.

 

 I for one would find it amazing for Peco to take such a retrograde step and try to make the point more suited to toy trains use than scale model railway use.

 

For these reasons I trust that the poster is wrong, and the insulted frogs will be dropped in favour of Unifrog, but Elecrofrogs are left alone, or improved on with metal checkrails.

 

If the poster is correct then I for one will not be buying the new points, and it is deeply worrying that it may be correct, so has any body else heard this rumour, or has actual facts at their disposal?

 

Stephen

Edited April 14, 2017 by bertiedog

[faa77]

From another posting on RM,  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121872-unifrog/

 is possible news of the frogs on the bullhead points being the Peco Unifrog type, where a large plastic filled break is put in the blade to insulate the frog, which is reduced to a tiny tip area that can be switched or not as the user feels like.

 

Now I cannot contact Peco today or till after the Easter Holidays to confirm, or get a denial, about this step, but "IF" it is true it ruins the advances in design and appearance of the bullhead points.

 

I hope it is not true and solid blades are fitted, with all metal surfaces, as a proper point should be, and I hope the checkrails will be nickel silver as well.

 

 I for one would find it amazing for Peco to take such a retrograde step and try to make the point more suited to toy trains use than scale model railway use.

 

For these reasons I trust that the poster is wrong, and the insulted frogs will be dropped in favour of Unifrog, but Elecrofrogs are left alone, or improved on with metal checkrails.

 

If the poster is correct then I for one will not be buying the new points, and it is deeply worrying that it may be correct, so has any body else heard this rumour, or has actual facts at their disposal?

 

Stephen

 

Could perhaps post the peco email address and everyone in this thread could contact them, persuading them to change a design (I don't know how likely that is/if its too late in the design stage)??