gr.king Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Given the trade off that Martin points out between correct appearance and reliable delivery of current, according to whether the non-running rails are dull/electrically dead, or are bright/electrically live, an advantageous compromise might be possible: If the non-running rails are mounted just a fraction lower (or are a fraction lower in profile) than the running rails, then there is no great threat of loss of mechanical function (given the size of typical OO flanges) but the slightly recessed rail heads have a chance of remaining dull after track cleaning, whether they be painted or phosphor bronze, or both. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 It is track cleaning that causes the issue with plastic wing rails and checkrails compared to metal, they are better, as cleaning the top does not leave shiny rails all over the place. Reducing the height might work in theory as long as all possible contact areas that the tyre can touch are left at normal height. But in practice the paint at the tip would still wear. My own solution was all metal surfaces, and after a clean a quick paint job with cellulose matt brown paint to restore the finish, but this was only for exhibitions or photo sessions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 So to sum up, the picture below should show what's expected, with the Show sample shown omitting the Unifrog extra cuts and insulation, and the longer checkrails, both added to the image. If this is what they deliver, rather than the other code 83 example, then all will be well. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted April 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 16, 2017 So to sum up, the picture below should Hi Stephen, While you are improving the Peco design, you could also: 1. change the silly industrial-style short end flares on the check rails to something more in keeping with full-size practice -- a much longer flare at a much flatter angle. 2. close up the timber spacing to something closer to the prototype -- 2ft-6in centres through crossings. We have covered all this earlier in this topic and I posted some diagrams. But again, until we see the finished product we don't know what to expect. My suspicion is that the mock-up so far seen is little more than an "Artist's Impression", made up quickly to have something to show at Warley. Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted May 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 4, 2017 Without wading through 99 pages l thought that this image would be of interest. Just arrived and fitted to C and L code 75 bullhead. Just what l've been looking for P4 use. They are a nice sliding fit easily loaded. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 (edited) Peco had a stand at the Trainsmania show in Lille over the weekend and were showing their bullhead (or should that be double champignon asymétrique?) track including the prototype turnout. I assume this is the same one they've been showing so far but I'm not sure and they assured me that the production version will use proper rail for the switch blades which will not be hinged and metal check rails. the plain track is already being sold in France which, apart from people modelling British 00, is probably the one significant non British Isles market for it despite the sleepers being a bit wide for H0. The show, which was excellent, was to mark the 80th anniversary of Loco-Revue and the Peco stand (as always not a sales stand) was directly opposite Loco-Revue's large sales stand. I believe that the two family owned companies have had a long standing personal relationship. Loco-Revue are one of Peco's retailers in France (though I didn't notice any bullhead track on their stand) and their interesting new Train'in Box -complete layout kit in a box- product which was launched at the show uses Peco Setrack. Most of the layouts at this show did seem to be using Peco track, mostly code 75 for standard gauge, but I did notice at least one plain track module that had used C&L or SMP bullhead. Edited May 4, 2017 by Pacific231G 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I agree with you, on the French market, David. I took time out to look harder at our local track here (St Jean D'Angely and routes north and south). The new Peco BH is a closer match to that (apart from a few recent renewals sections) than anything on the market to date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH_83 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Without wading through 99 pages l thought that this image would be of interest. Just arrived and fitted to C and L code 75 bullhead. Just what l've been looking for P4 use. They are a nice sliding fit easily loaded. 027.jpg That's not too bad. I am toying between these or the plastic c&l/exactoscale one's for my track scratchbuilding. These would certainly hold the track in position and together better I would think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Just arrived and fitted to C and L code 75 bullhead. Just what l've been looking for P4 use. They are a nice sliding fit easily loaded. 027.jpg Apologies if I'm missing something, but where are these joiners available please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Apologies if I'm missing something, but where are these joiners available please? Hattons, for one... http://www.hattons.co.uk/270178/Peco_Products_SL_114_Pack_of_24_finescale_rail_joiners_for_Peco_SL_108F_bullhead_track/StockDetail.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 The new Joiners are excellent items and can be used to connect the bullhead to the code 75, by filing down the foot of the flatbottom used in the current Code 75 points. I pre-prepared each point with the rail joiners, soldering them into place with 145 deg solder, as quickly as possible to minimise heat damaging the plastic parts. The rail was clamped at the top with a mole grip pliers to take away excess heat. The result is almost a set track point, the bullhead track can be just plugged into the joiners. If you wan to make it permanent, the whole thing can then be soldered again, with the grips to act as heat sinks. Insulted equivalents are not yet made, it seems the intention is to use the existing flatbottom type which grips both. You can put a piece of PC board sleeper inline, under the place in insulate, and solder it one, then cut he insulation gap from above. right through the rail and PC copper, leaving just the insulation to join the rails together. the best stuff is pc board in fibreglass. The excess on each side can be filed way to produce a neat joint. It is also possible to use the metal joiner to make insulated joints, the joint is completed as usual, and soldered over all, and then the bottom is filed flush with the bottom of the rail section. then a strip of fibre glass board is added under the joint and soldered, with care the joiner plates will not fall away, and then the insulation cut an be added. In all these soldered insulation cuts it can improve the appearance and strength, to add a spot of epoxy into the gap, and after it is set hard run over and around the joint to cut away any excess with a scalpel, and smooth over with very fine emery paper. The soldered insulation gaps are pretty unnoticeable compared to the nylon Peco one, but involve a lot more work. One other way to get a very good insulation joint is to use two brass screws, set down in line under the rail section as you lay the track. The heads are set to just touch the track, and are soldered to the track, with Peco bases you can part the sleepers to get them way from the heat, As soon as you sure the screws are soldered to the rail bottom, the cut can go straight through the lot, leaving a very accurate insulated joint. the excess screw head is then filed way to clean up appearances. Again a rail joiner could be added before to the track at the right position, by sliding off one sides sleepers and putting back afterwards. The screws would touch the joiner not the rails bottom. Using the new joiners like this seems tedious, but they have the bolt heads as added detail. The Code 75 flatbottom points have to be used at the moment, as a full range of bullhead points being offered is a long way off at present. Stephen 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Promising days ahead for pointwork, I trust and hope, but in the meantime the existing Code 75 points can be cosmetically augmented with cut down C&L chairs that passes muster to the eye. A bit tedious to do but the resultant improvement makes it all worthwhile.... 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted May 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2017 Apologies if I'm missing something, but where are these joiners available please? This is where l got them from with good postage rates @.£0.99. This was for two packets. Presumably the same for more! : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352024891088?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted May 5, 2017 Author Share Posted May 5, 2017 Will insulated joiners still be necessary on unifrog points? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted May 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) Will insulated joiners still be necessary on unifrog points? They shouldn't be needed as, in effect, there is a much smaller already insulated part at the V end. Roy Edited May 5, 2017 by Roy Langridge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 From the photographs taken at the French Show those points will do me ...excellent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 From the photographs taken at the French Show those points will do me ...excellent In think the photo is of a prototype, not the actual production model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) Promising days ahead for pointwork, I trust and hope, but in the meantime the existing Code 75 points can be cosmetically augmented with cut down C&L chairs that passes muster to the eye. A bit tedious to do but the resultant improvement makes it all worthwhile.... IMG_0423-crop.JPG Very nice work Ben. From a normal viewing distance I'd have no problem accepting that as BH. In think the photo is of a prototype, not the actual production model That is so John but they assured me that this was very close to the production version. It will be at a premium price because of the amount of manual assembly required; the rail can't be simply pressed into the base Edited May 5, 2017 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Will insulated joiners still be necessary on unifrog points? Only not really needed with DCC except return loops, but needed to section track and in point control in normal DC layouts. Most users are still DC at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Will insulated joiners still be necessary on unifrog points? If the production version is the same as the pre-production sample then yes. The two point rails can/will be bonded to the adjacent stock rails but isolated from the wing rail/frog assembly by the gaps shown, however unless insulated joiners are used for the frog rails they will short out. If I understand the unifrog concept, the tip of the frog is isolated and can be used as a dead frog or a switchable polarity frog - I presume you could then get away without additional insulated joiners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Very nice work Ben. From a normal viewing distance I'd have no problem accepting that as BH. That is so John but they assured me that this was very close to the production version. It will be at a premium price because of the amount of manual assembly required; the rail can't be simply pressed into the base I think that Peco have stated some changes from the prototype in the photo and the production one. Especially in the area of the common crossing As for the Premium price, I understand the production cost will be dearer owing to the issues with bullhead rail, however there may also be due to either smaller unit sales and or because they can increase the price, plus lack of competition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I think that Peco have stated some changes from the prototype in the photo and the production one. Especially in the area of the common crossing As for the Premium price, I understand the production cost will be dearer owing to the issues with bullhead rail, however there may also be due to either smaller unit sales and or because they can increase the price, plus lack of competition Looking at premium price, the new fishplates are £5.50 (New Railway Modeller arrived today) Twice the price of code 75 !!!! To be quite honest they are still rail joiners not fishplates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I think I'll still be able to live with myself if I stick to using N gauge / OO9 rail joiners..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Looking at premium price, the new fishplates are £5.50 (New Railway Modeller arrived today) Twice the price of code 75 !!!! To be quite honest they are still rail joiners not fishplates It's the cost of adding the bolts!.......by the look of it the joiners are made in a different folding and cutting process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 It's the cost of adding the bolts!.......by the look of it the joiners are made in a different folding and cutting process. I will stick to paying a bit more and use the Exactoscale fishplates, far more realistic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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