Castle Aching

[Andy Hayter]

Turn of the last century, many chickens would have free run of an area - and frequently beyond unless the hedging was of first class condition - and would return at night to a closed roost or hen house with the temptation of more food.   This is a system still in use by small holders here in France, and, despite all of what might be perceived as risks, seems to work and fowl are often seen scratching around the roadside verges of minor roads.

[TheQ]

This is often the case round here on this side of Norfolk, I'll see the odd one or half dozen  running around. trouble is since in recent times loose chicken have been stolen.

 

We of course just over on the dark side in Suffolk  had the Chicken roundabout until recent times

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_roundabout

[DonB]

For small quantities to represent chicken wire type fencing, I have considered the little white gauze bags found in supermarkets containing Garlic bulbs /cloves. The material is somewhat elastic, and is in tube form.

[Nick Holliday]

A couple  of Pendon's takes on the subject.

 

[Nearholmer]

Given that chicken wire is fine gauge, large mesh, I'm wondering if it might be safer to leave it to the imagination, by putting in the uprights, and if it's a good quality installation the bottom board (to keep foxes and, if you're lucky, rats out) and top rail (to prevent sagging), with no actual wire.

 

K

Edited June 9, 2017 by Nearholmer

[uax6]

I would have thought that some individual strands of hair could be weaved to a suitable mesh....

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

Chickens

 

Thank you for all the responses - very helpful indeed.

 

I should have mentioned that these will be HO chickens (Preiser seem to have this covered) and HO chicken sheds.  The house behind the chicken area is nominally built to 1/87.  The chicken area is at the end of a garden that is circa 90% full size territory.

 

 

"...... suggestions for appropriate Edwardian chicken fencing?"

Well, if you can find a book called 'Harmsworth's Self Educator', it contains all that you need to know ........ unfortunately, I gave all 20 paving slab sized volumes away about ten years ago, and for the past 9 years and 364 days have regretted the fact.

Chicken breeding was seriously popular pre-WW1, as a low entry cost business with good earnings by potential, so there are quite a few "how to" books from that period that cover it in a lot of detail.

As to breed, I suggest Buff Orpington. They were still quite a new breed, and were very popular because they laid more eggs than anything else around, and were nice and big for roasting.

Kevin

PS: the Bolton Model Poultry Farm in Lancashire had an 18" gauge steam railway!

PPS: seems that wire mesh fencing was invented in Norwich http://www.heritagecity.org/research-centre/industrial-innovation/barnards.htm so if your folk can afford it, not a problem. Otherwise, I would suggest low wattle fencing, made with sticks about a finger-thickness. Rolls of chicken wire often appear as goods in pictures of the KESR, so you can use it as both scenery and cargo!

 

Chicken wire, was, of course, the concept I was groping towards!  So, it is an option, and made in Norwich.  Thank you.

 

Buff Orpingtons - clearly they must be.

 

 

they'll need a hotel to sleep in at night

 

poultry sheds.jpg

 

Excellent picture and most helpful, thank you.  I wonder what aspect of the design was unique to this manufacturer and its 1931 patent?

 

 

I presume we are talking about materials to represent the chicken wire my thoughts are some kind of gauze, net curtain possibly starched, etched wire mesh, ladies nylons, plasters cotton scrim ( the modern plastic would be too coarse I feel).

Don

 

Much messy experimentation called for.  Excellent!

 

 

may I suggest this http://www.ancortonmodels.com/#/nf6/4578511243

 

Nick

 

That sounds like a plan.  Thank you.  If I go for the "hard border" option, I suspect that an 'N Gauge' mesh might be all the better for represented an 'HO' fence.

[Edwardian]

Figure-Painting

 

James,

Thank you.  How do you find getting the card off when you have finished painting?

 

Few problems thus far.  One of the shop figures had glue overlap the shoes, so left a bare patch to be touched up after removal.

 

 

Another option is to insert a (headless, dress making) pin inside one of the legs. It takes a fine drill bit to achieve this and a steady hand, but once the pin is inserted it can be used for holding the model whilst painting, standing the model whilst the paint dries and eventually to position the model on the layout. The pin hole in the platform, street, etc., is fairly small, so the people can be moved around for variety.

 

I agree entirely that this is the best way, both for painting and positioning.  The Aiden Campbell and Mike Pett figures come with prongs, and I stick these into foam board in order to undercoat and to paint.

 

In practice, however, I have not dared to try this with the Andrew Staddens.  These are very much true scale (I find many nominally 1/76 figures are far larger e.g. Aiden Campbell and Mike Pett), and I worried that the legs were too thin to accept a drill and pin, particularly with my limited precision drilling abilities.  I do need to revisit this, as I would far rather pin them than glue them to the layout.

[Shadow]

This is often the case round here on this side of Norfolk, I'll see the odd one or half dozen  running around. trouble is since in recent times loose chicken have been stolen.

 

We of course just over on the dark side in Suffolk  had the Chicken roundabout until recent times

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_roundabout

They do it slightly different in Dorking, Surrey.

 

[Edwardian]

Chickens again

 

Turn of the last century, many chickens would have free run of an area - and frequently beyond unless the hedging was of first class condition - and would return at night to a closed roost or hen house with the temptation of more food.   This is a system still in use by small holders here in France, and, despite all of what might be perceived as risks, seems to work and fowl are often seen scratching around the roadside verges of minor roads.

 

This is often the case round here on this side of Norfolk, I'll see the odd one or half dozen  running around. trouble is since in recent times loose chicken have been stolen.

 

We of course just over on the dark side in Suffolk  had the Chicken roundabout until recent times

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_roundabout

 

A couple  of Pendon's takes on the subject.

chickens.jpg

chickens 2.jpg

 

This is interesting.  I could simply go for a 'frictionless border'

 

Could I have an area, outside the garden fence, where the chickens peck by day, but also where we also find the chicken sheds?

 

I have in mind one of the cottagers on Rev. Awdry's Ffarqhuar.  That's my 'prototype inspiration' here.

 

 

For small quantities to represent chicken wire type fencing, I have considered the little white gauze bags found in supermarkets containing Garlic bulbs /cloves. The material is somewhat elastic, and is in tube form.

 

I'll have a look!

 

 

Given that chicken wire is fine gauge, large mesh, I'm wondering if it might be safer to leave it to the imagination, by putting in the uprights, and if it's a good quality installation the bottom board (to keep foxes and, if you're lucky, rats out) and top rail (to prevent sagging), with no actual wire.

K

 

The elegance of this solution appeals.

 

 

I would have thought that some individual strands of hair could be weaved to a suitable mesh....

 

Andy G

 

Not by my fat fingers!

 

 

They do it slightly different in Dorking, Surrey.

geograph-2110276-by-Richard-Rogerson.jpg

 

Which is exactly what will happen if I get the perspective wrong.

[Nearholmer]

Should a note of the macabre be required, you could always create a scenario based on this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thorne

 

The lane where it happened is double-haunted, by the victim, and by a girl who drowned in a stream during a thunderstorm.

 

K

[ChrisN]

Should a note of the macabre be required, you could always create a scenario based on this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thorne

 

The lane where it happened is double-haunted, by the victim, and by a girl who drowned in a stream during a thunderstorm.

 

K

 

As Conan-Doyle took an interest in the case does that mean we will have Sherlock Holmes and Watson snooping around the chicken run?

 

My mum grew up on a farm in the early part of the 20th century and told me stories of chickens sitting on duck eggs which when hatched and they went for a walk all the ducklings promptly went in the pond much to their 'mothers' consternation.  They would appear not to have had a chicken run, either to keep their chickens in or to bury embarrassing dead bodies.

[BG John]

If the chickens live in a run, there's no guarantee they'll stay there!

http://www.aardman.com/work/chicken-run-02/

[phil_sutters]

I would probably use some garden palings, dulled down, weathered wood - not the bright white they often come in, a bit tatty possibly and slightly over-grown.

Edit - I have just noticed Wills advert in this month's RM has a nice set of "Rustic & picket fencing" - just the job. I am just a satisfied customer who reads their adverts!

Edited June 9, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Caley Jim]

Another option is to insert a (headless, dress making) pin inside one of the legs. It takes a fine drill bit to achieve this and a steady hand, but once the pin is inserted it can be used for holding the model whilst painting, standing the model whilst the paint dries and eventually to position the model on the layout. The pin hole in the platform, street, etc., is fairly small, so the people can be moved around for variety.

I do the same in 2MM scale, using a short piece of 0.5mm steel wire.  A piece of ply with some very slightly undersized holes drilled in it can be used to hold them and I transport them in a small customised box along with my carts etc, the figures being pushed into a piece of expanded polystyrene.  When this gets too full of holes to hold them, it is replaced.

 

 

Jim

[phil_sutters]

When I was painting some of Andrew Stadden's 4mm figures, I stuck a couple of rows of them, by their nice flat feet, to a couple of stiffish card strips with double sided tape. I masked off the edges of the d/s tape with masking tape close to the feet, so my fingers didn't stick to the d/s tape. It held them well enough and once painted and matt varnished, they lifted off relatively easily. If any residue is left, white spirit will remove the gummy bit of double-sided tape. I use a fair amount for other craft purposes and my scissors get stuck together after a while, but a quick rub with white spirit removes the adhesive.

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Edwardian]

Things appear to be back to normal on Castle Aching, I am relieved to say.  I have been very sensible of the continued life and colour that many topic regulars have breathed into the topic over the last week or so in particular. Thank you to everyone for bearing with what must have seemed erratic posting on my part - replies to various posts on figure-painting and chickens have appeared at post 3907, 3908, and 3910 - but posts should now be in real time.  Hurray!

 

About to go out in the pouring rain to entertain the dogs, but hope to hit the work-bench later.  This place, in which we have hidden ourselves away, is so beautiful, even in the rain.

 

And this our life, exempt from public haunt, Finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks, Sermons in stones, and good in everything.

 

Should a note of the macabre be required, you could always create a scenario based on this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Thorne

The lane where it happened is double-haunted, by the victim, and by a girl who drowned in a stream during a thunderstorm.

K

 

Nasty business.  Didn't the forensic expert achieve God-like status in the courts, only later to be found to have feet of clay?  

 

 

As Conan-Doyle took an interest in the case does that mean we will have Sherlock Holmes and Watson snooping around the chicken run?

 

 

 

Not unless they are recreated in 1/87 scale, otherwise the Great detective will suffer from an uncharacteristic loss of perspective.  

 

 

I would probably use some garden palings, dulled down, weathered wood - not the bright white they often come in, a bit tatty possibly and slightly over-grown.

Edit - I have just noticed Wills advert in this month's RM has a nice set of "Rustic & picket fencing" - just the job. I am just a satisfied customer who reads their adverts!

 

Thanks.  This is the look I am aiming for the garden fencing - the chickens will probably be unfenced.  Frankly, though, I doubt much of this will be seen, and even what is, only from a limited point of view.

 

 

I do the same in 2MM scale, using a short piece of 0.5mm steel wire.  A piece of ply with some very slightly undersized holes drilled in it can be used to hold them and I transport them in a small customised box along with my carts etc, the figures being pushed into a piece of expanded polystyrene.  When this gets too full of holes to hold them, it is replaced.

 

DSC_0437.JPG

 

Jim

 

I am impressed.  As I mentioned in post 3908, I have not dared to try this with the 4mm Andrew Staddens.  These are very much true scale (I find many nominally 1/76 figures are far larger e.g. Aiden Campbell and Mike Pett), and I worried that the legs were too thin to accept a drill and pin, particularly with my very limited precision drilling abilities. 

 

As I say, I do need to revisit this, as I would far rather pin them than glue them to the layout, and you clearly show it to be more than possible.

 

This might be a stupid question, but where does one find 0.5mm steel wire?

 

 

When I was painting some of Andrew Stadden's 4mm figures, I stuck a couple of rows of them, by their nice flat feet, to a couple of stiffish card strips with double sided tape. I masked off the edges of the d/s tape with masking tape close to the feet, so my fingers didn't stick to the d/s tape. It held them well enough and once painted and matt varnished, they lifted off relatively easily. If any residue is left, white spirit will remove the gummy bit of double-sided tape. I use a fair amount for other craft purposes and my scissors get stuck together after a while, but a quick rub with white spirit removes the adhesive.

 

Andrew Stadden figures ready for painting.jpg

 

Very sensible, Phil. 

 

I use glue because I don't have any double-sided tape, but tape is less likely to intrude on the feet you want to paint than glue. 

 

If you mounted them thus and then spray undercoated, presumably you would not have any sticky surface when it came to paint them?

[webbcompound]

Not unless they are recreated in 1/87 scale, otherwise the Great detective will suffer from an uncharacteristic loss of perspective.  

This might be a stupid question, but where does one find 0.5mm steel wire?

 

 

 

http://www.scalefigures.com/HO/ho3.htm

Although they are in the US

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=category&task=listing&cid=1353&name=spring-steel-coiled-wire&Itemid=189

Although brass or nickel silver woulkd work just as well. And essentially any guitar shop might have broken strings they would give away (ours does)

Edited June 10, 2017 by webbcompound

[phil_sutters]

 

 

Very sensible, Phil. 

 

I use glue because I don't have any double-sided tape, but tape is less likely to intrude on the feet you want to paint than glue. 

 

If you mounted them thus and then spray undercoated, presumably you would not have any sticky surface when it came to paint them?

 

I gave them a diluted black matt enamel wash, perched them round a plastic food tray and let them dry, then stuck them on the d/s tape. I get that from Poundland. The black wash is an ex-wargames figure technique. It defines the shapes and gets shadows established early. I am not keen on dark shadow-creating washes near the end of painting.

Edited June 10, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Edwardian]

http://www.scalefigures.com/HO/ho3.htm

Although they are in the US

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=category&task=listing&cid=1353&name=spring-steel-coiled-wire&Itemid=189

Although brass or nickel silver woulkd work just as well. And essentially any guitar shop might have broken strings they would give away (ours does)

 

Thank you, both extremely helpful links

 

 

 

 

Very sensible, Phil. 

 

I use glue because I don't have any double-sided tape, but tape is less likely to intrude on the feet you want to paint than glue. 

 

If you mounted them thus and then spray undercoated, presumably you would not have any sticky surface when it came to paint them?

 

I gave them a diluted black matt enamel wash, perched them round a plastic food tray and let them dry, then stuck them on the d/s tape. I get that from Poundland. The black wash is an ex-wargames figure technique. It defines the shapes and gets shadows established early. I am not keen on dark shadow-creating washes near the end of painting.

 

 

That's very interesting, Phil, thanks.  I almost never use a wash; just paint dark and progressively high-light.

 

I didn't know whether pre-shading would work in 4mm.  Clearly I am going to have to give it a bash!

[ChrisN]

I am not being rude in not replying about pins and needles in my legs in my figures legs.  As yet I have got no further than thinking of Tacky Wax on their feet.  as my layout build has stalled as I am building coaches it will be a while before I need to have an answer.  I tend to lay them down for primer so I can get the soles of their feet as well, and after removing them from the card.  I will try double sided tape but I have to pick them up individually so I can see them under my magnifying glass so I will do it will smaller card.

 

Thank you everyone for your suggestions.

[ChrisN]

Thank you, both extremely helpful links

 

 

 

That's very interesting, Phil, thanks.  I almost never use a wash; just paint dark and progressively high-light.

 

I didn't know whether pre-shading would work in 4mm.  Clearly I am going to have to give it a bash!

 

James,

Eileen's Emporium also does straight wire as well.  I think I bought a set of mini drill bits from them, no it was Dart castings.  They start at 0.3mm to 1.6mm missing out one on the way, 1.1mm or something.  No one knows why.  You can buy packs of 10 of one size.  I got a new pin chuck from Hobby Holidays when I made it to Expo EM South.  (I am sure it was them.)

 

Preshading:  that is why I use grey primer and if I am careful with a wash of flesh I leave the eye sockets grey to give the impression of eyes.  A black wash seems like a good idea.  I always struggle to get shading with dark colours and I am reluctant to use dry brushing techniques as I do not want them to look too much like they have fought the Battle of Waterloo, just got off the 17:20 from Waterloo.

[phil_sutters]

Preshading:  that is why I use grey primer and if I am careful with a wash of flesh I leave the eye sockets grey to give the impression of eyes. 

Eyes are very tricky. I used to paint 25mm wargames figures and they were hard enough. One thing I learnt from one of the top wargames painters, Bill Brewer, was not to use black, but brown on 9 out of 10 figures - the tenth got blue eyes. In daylight, where most battles are fought, pupils are very tiny and wouldn't be seen on a model. I find 4mm scale / 20mm figures far harder to paint - but some of that may be down to age as well. A common mistake is to make eyes with too much white and a blob of black in the middle. Your grey sounds like a sensible approach to a tricky subject.

[Edwardian]

Work has begun on the castle.  The basic keep structure is complete, with most of the textures added.  There will be blending in with paint, foliage etc. 

 

There was evidently a 'fore building' over the stairs originally; the scars can still be seen on the façade.  I need to add what remains, the now leaf-covered external staircase.

 

EDIT:  I should add that this is built to approx. 3mm scale

Edited June 11, 2017 by Edwardian

[mullie]

Shades of Castle Hedingham? Looks great.