Edwardian Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 “....... that for the sake of avoiding a perceived irony, we must be free to remove monarchy with whatever bloodshed may be necessary.....” My point was more that if monarchy is defensible, it must be defensible on less negative grounds. That is only true if you take a rather Old Testament view of the sins of the fathers, rather than taking a given monarchy as you find it. In general monarchy might be an institution that does not fit in with an opponent's ideology, especially where he cannot find the neatness and order his mind requires due to his inability to reconcile ideas of hereditary with ideas of democracy. His lack of pragmatic wisdom is almost as concerning as his callous approach to the individuals affected. He will not see that the institution may be vital constitutional 'glue', and that its stripping out might fatally weaken a national structure. In days when monarchs had power, their removal left a vacuum, which usually sucked in a good deal of chaos and bloodshed to fill it. Revolutions, like Saturn, are doomed to eat their children because each regime fails due to its lack of legitimacy and must seek to survive by becoming ever more violent and oppressive than its predecessor. The ordinary people suffer, starve and die in their thousands while the outcome of some well-meant middle class thought experiment is worked out over a number of blood-soaked years. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Good argument against violent revolutionary change away from monarchy (or indeed away from anything else), but there are other ways of moving beyond monarchy, including the slow ‘chip-chip-chip’ of constitutional change, and it’s not as if monarchy is the only form of ‘glue’ that can provides sufficient stability in a society to act as a defence against bloodbaths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 Good argument against violent revolutionary change away from monarchy (or indeed away from anything else), but there are other ways of moving beyond monarchy, including the slow ‘chip-chip-chip’ of constitutional change, and it’s not as if monarchy is the only form of ‘glue’ that can provides sufficient stability in a society to act as a defence against bloodbaths. There is where I think we meet and agree, in my case thus proving what a Whig Historian I've turned out to be after all! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 The case against the decor of that coach can be very well made on grounds of taste (lack thereof) without the need to mention other matters. The pretention is brought under control by the Formica tables - they give it that necessary little touch of blue collar honesty. The Feng Shui isn't fully in balance but they help. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2018 This seems to be pretty close to saying that two wrongs make a right, a suspicious idea at the best of times. Yes.Mathematically, you need three lefts to make a right. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Just bumped into this chap, who I think may wish to contribute. Edited November 2, 2018 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 The pretention is brought under control by the Formica tables - they give it that necessary little touch of blue collar honesty. The Feng Shui isn't fully in balance but they help. Mind you, it's hard to be pretentious when you are, in fact, the Queen Empress! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 The pretention is brought under control by the Formica tables - they give it that necessary little touch of blue collar honesty. The Feng Shui isn't fully in balance but they help. A small tinkly fountain in the corner, just next to the toilet compartment, should sort things out. (Just ensure the lid is down to keep out the Dragon of Unhappiness...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 Here is a bit of Victorian splendour from Stately Trains, a coach from the LSWR for Queen Victoria. I also include a picture of my PC models LSWR dining saloon. It was acquired second-hand a good number of years ago now, and would benefit from some TLC. I include this because the SW built few clerestories and these diners were another such exception. The Southern, spoilsports, took the clerestories off. A set of 4 of these PC kits, already built and including the diner is/was recently on Ebay for more than I could afford and I only needed one of the 4. Though usually they are not too expensive, I think the diners fetch more, so I am lucky to have one. These coaches lack relief, which is their great disadvantage and as a consequence they do not mix well with those of other manufacturers, e.g. Roxeys. However, a uniform rake of PC kits is less of a problem and I am close to having enough to make a 4-set, with the diner inserted as a fifth and a brake compo to tack on as a through portion. A nice 6-coach train to speed along some future layout. In order to make up the set I have over many years bagged them in both built and unbuilt condition. Some of the former would benefit from attention, but you have to take things in whatever form they come when something is out of production. Unfortunately, even after so many years in the armchair, I have failed to acquire a second Third Brake, so if anyone comes across one in any condition, please do let me know. Returning to the Royal coach, it was built as part of the 1885 Royal train, and in 1887, the Jubilee year, converted for HMQ's personal use. Again, the coach survived as accommodation. I recall Stephen Middleton saying that much of one side was missing, even so, the notes he gave me state that the coach was restored over a 6-month period. Remarkable. It was featured in the Peter Snow TV programme, which I'm afraid I have not seen. Needless to say, it's stunning. Gosh a PC coach! Back in the day I constructed one or two LNWR coaches from their kits and I must say they did look very nice. Their Midland clerestory kits completely defeated me though I'm sorry to say and caused the odd shed tear. It was a good and bold concept though, - printed sides with all the glories of a coach livery captured without the horrors of having to try and paint it by hand. And of course as some of you know I went on to make 'litho' coach sides for 'O' gauge and I'm still doing it now for digital railway models. I'm sure the PC coach kits were a strong influence in all that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2018 That is only true if you take a rather Old Testament view of the sins of the fathers, rather than taking a given monarchy as you find it. In general monarchy might be an institution that does not fit in with an opponent's ideology, especially where he cannot find the neatness and order his mind requires due to his inability to reconcile ideas of hereditary with ideas of democracy. His lack of pragmatic wisdom is almost as concerning as his callous approach to the individuals affected. He will not see that the institution may be vital constitutional 'glue', and that its stripping out might fatally weaken a national structure. In days when monarchs had power, their removal left a vacuum, which usually sucked in a good deal of chaos and bloodshed to fill it. Revolutions, like Saturn, are doomed to eat their children because each regime fails due to its lack of legitimacy and must seek to survive by becoming ever more violent and oppressive than its predecessor. The ordinary people suffer, starve and die in their thousands while the outcome of some well-meant middle class thought experiment is worked out over a number of blood-soaked years. My you are a cheerful bunnie this morning. Not that would disagree with your arguments. I feel the biggest threat to our future is the coming of AI. When machines can do everything better than people what need for the rulers to look after a large population. Of course we could share out the benefits....... Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I am slightly bemused by our host's assumption that Republicanism automatically equates to the desire for a re-run of Ekaterinburg when cousin Wilhelm merely lived out his days in exile. Perhaps Sue Townsend has the right idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_and_I_(novel)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 At one time there was a royal coach on the Isle of Wight Steam railway. A neighbour used it for his wedding (at some cost I expect). Any mention of S gauge should include Yas Milham's wonderful Yaxbury. My Uncle was a Hi fi buff and had some wonderful cone speakers running up to the ceiling. Playing Wagner at some volume was rather daunting. Mind you few of you will have had the effect of hearing Ride of the Valkyries with added parrots squawks, yells and other noises as inspired by the music his wings were doing the best to take off while self preservation meant his feet were gripping the perch mostly. Don i think you are thinking of the pullmans that were there many years ago. Fingall is now beautifully restored at the Bluebell. Before haven street it was at the national motor museum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I am slightly bemused by our host's assumption that Republicanism automatically equates to the desire for a re-run of Ekaterinburg when cousin Wilhelm merely lived out his days in exile. Perhaps Sue Townsend has the right idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_and_I_(novel)... Erm... well Germany suffered rather badly in the power vacuum that followed did it not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 2, 2018 Author Share Posted November 2, 2018 My you are a cheerful bunnie this morning. Not that would disagree with your arguments Currently inhabiting a Dark Place. I am slightly bemused by our host's assumption that Republicanism automatically equates to the desire for a re-run of Ekaterinburg when cousin Wilhelm merely lived out his days in exile. I was crediting you with a worthwhile republicanism, like the wish to free the world of a tyrant, rather than the unnecessary, vainglorious tinkering with a functioning constitutional monarchy, which would be irresponsible at best and, in times such as these, downright dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 In a sense aren't we all just mixing along in the railway carriage that is life the world and everything. A small thought that escaped my sleepy little brain this morning. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) In a sense aren't we all just mixing along in the railway carriage that is life the world and everything. A small thought that escaped my sleepy little brain this morning. Das Eisenbahngleichnis (Erich Kästner, 1932) Wir sitzen alle im gleichen Zug und reisen quer durch die Zeit. Wir sehen hinaus. Wir sahen genug. Wir fahren alle im gleichen Zug. Und keiner weiß, wie weit. Apologies to those who don't know German. The first verse, roughly translated says: We're all sitting in the same train/and travel straight through time/We look outside, we've seen enough/we're all travelling in the same train/ and nobody knows how far. Ein Nachbar schläft, ein andrer klagt, ein dritter redet viel. Stationen werden angesagt. Der Zug, der durch die Jahre jagt, kommt niemals an sein Ziel. Wir packen aus. Wir packen ein. Wir finden keinen Sinn. Wo werden wir wohl morgen sein? Der Schaffner schaut zur Tür herein und lächelt vor sich hin. Auch er weiß nicht, wohin er will. Er schweigt und geht hinaus. Da heult die Zugsirene schrill! Der Zug fährt langsam und hält still. Die Toten steigen aus. Ein Kind steigt aus. Die Mutter schreit. Die Toten stehen stumm am Bahnsteig der Vergangenheit. Der Zug fährt weiter, er jagt durch die Zeit, und niemand weiß, warum. Die 1. Klasse ist fast leer. Ein feister Herr sitzt stolz im roten Plüsch und atmet schwer. Er ist allein und spürt das sehr. Die Mehrheit sitzt auf Holz. Wir reisen alle im gleichen Zug zu Gegenwart in spe. Wir sehen hinaus. Wir sahen genug. Wir sitzen alle im gleichen Zug und viele im falschen Coupé. Edited November 2, 2018 by Andy Kirkham 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 A spot of railway art is what is needed to cheer us all up. My stupid little sleepy brain is being difficult this morning so I certainly could do with some cheering up. I must say I do like women's clothing from this era. I might not have been so keen on the corsets, but dash it that's a worthy price to pay for elegance. So anyone else like to post their favourite pre 1924 railway artworks? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 Good idea, Annie, put these on. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Good idea, Annie, put these on. 77A38691-EF00-48AA-B6FE-6377F6A72C00.jpeg Just beat me to it ! I was about to post that. I've never seen a station platform tiled like that. Edited November 2, 2018 by Andy Kirkham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Well, if you want to follow a good rad on WW1 Army life, I just came across this site. The diary entries for Colonel Dunsterville during WW1 Lionel Charles D’Arcy Dunsterville (9 Nov 1865 – 18 Mar 1946) was born in Switzerland to an officer in the Indian Army and a lady of English descent who had been born in South Africa. He had five older sisters and went to the United Services College in Devon in 1875. It was here he made the acquaintance of G. C. Beresford and Rudyard Kipling, the latter of whom immortalised Dunsterville as ‘Stalky’ in ‘Stalky & Co.‘, published in 1899. These diary entries therefore start in July of 1914, although earlier years (from 1911) are available to those who are interested. I will endeavour to post each entry exactly 100 years to the day from when it was originally written; therefore please continue to visit throughout the next four years. Thank you for reading! Details here https://stalkydiariesww1.wordpress.com/about/ Starting at the bottom of this page https://stalkydiariesww1.wordpress.com/2014/07/ and going upwards! Very entertaining reading Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 Oh very nice Northroader. I do like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 So anyone else like to post their favourite pre 1924 railway artworks? How about this one, Perth Station Jim 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 Oh very nice indeed. I haven't seen that one before Jim. Are old railway posters permitted in this exhibition? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted November 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2018 Jim, your Perth station picture reminds me very much of the Paddington station one by William Powell Firth. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) In a sense aren't we all just mixing along in the railway carriage that is life the world and everything. Some of us are third class, some are first class, some have their own private trains and some didn't pay at all and are going along the compartments robbing the decent folks. Mm. Sorry about that, not a Dark Place in my case, just 1.5 G&Ts into the evening. Edited November 2, 2018 by Martin S-C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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