Settle and Carlisle: grim landslip

[newbryford]

It would be a good idea to encourage tourists to travel on the very scenic Cumbrian Coast line instead while the S&C is disrupted.

Is that a wise idea seeing some of the passengers frequenting the 37 hauled services?

 

[jamie92208]

Having read the NR press release it is rather short on detail but doe say that a way forward has been chosen.  I wonder whether they are not releasing detail until after the roadshows over the next couple of days.  perhaps a member on here will be able to get to one of them and inform us.

 

Jamie

[Bomag]

Repair solution now agreed;

 

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/repair-solution-agreed-for-settle-to-carlisle-railway-land-slip

 

No timescale for completion.  As quoted from Network Rail  "The project, expected to take many months, will also involve major earthworks to stabilise the embankment."

 

Two weeks to confirm, more or less, what I said in post 56 - where do I send my consultancy fee, it may even pay for this years ICE subs

[D854_Tiger]

Two weeks to confirm, more or less, what I said in post 56 - where do I send my consultancy fee, it may even pay for this years ICE subs

 

Checking the temporary timetable, it would appear that trains might be being stabled overnight at Appleby, is that the case.

[locoholic]

Has anyone seen any more detail on the proposed fix at Eden Brows, please?

 

I read on another thread about an "underground viaduct" near Prestonpans that takes the ECML over a patch of ground made unstable by medieval coal workings. I wonder if that is what they'll have to do on the S&C? I'm not a civil engineer, but digging down to find the stable strata below the mass that is slipping must be the best option for a long-term fix. Anything else to restore the rail alignment will require adding material at the top of the slope, which would just make the slope less stable.

[lmsforever]

NR, engineers are certainly earning their wages this year and are showing great enginuity to correct all the flood related problems this winter when its all finished we will have a resilient network.

[Edwin_m]

I think the underground viaduct only works if there is soft but flattish ground and a risk of the track sinking vertically downwards (there's another one on HS1 at Rainham Marshes).  Here the earth supporting the track has slid diagonally, which has to be stopped, and once that is done the track can be put back on what is now a stable base. 

[Wheatley]

Has anyone seen any more detail on the proposed fix at Eden Brows, please?

 

I read on another thread about an "underground viaduct" near Prestonpans that takes the ECML over a patch of ground made unstable by medieval coal workings. I wonder if that is what they'll have to do on the S&C? I'm not a civil engineer, but digging down to find the stable strata below the mass that is slipping must be the best option for a long-term fix. Anything else to restore the rail alignment will require adding material at the top of the slope, which would just make the slope less stable.

 

I believe that's the plan - a 'buried bridge' using piles down to the stable strata linked to some shallow-ish strata at either end, and some fairly heavy duty piling on the higher slope to stabilise it. "Stable" is a relative term though, there is faulting and displacement all over the place, a result of England and Scotland colliding way back when. (Google "Caledonian Orogeny" or "Iapetus Sutre").

 

I wonder if this would even be under consideration if it wasn't the S&C ? The sensible cost effective solution for passengers north of Appleby would be to terminate the line at Kirkby Thore and make them all commute from Penrith instead. I suspect most through passengers are just looking at the scenery, and the M6/A6/A66 corridor through the Eden Valley is hardly the most congested road in the country so it's not socially necessary. Form an orderly que with flaming pitchforks here...

[Arun Sharma]

Yes, nothing wrong of course with just looking at the scenery. Given the recent flood damage at Folkestone, Dawlish, S&C, Lammerton et al, It seems to me that "we ain't seen nothing yet" in terms of what might appear in the future. It is entirely justifiable therefore [iMO] that the taxpayer/Network Rail pays for repair to the S&C and gains expertise in dealing with this type of problem rather than taking the easy way out and just closing the line. We've already seen what effects that has "down the line" as the Teign Valley [Dawlish Bypass] was closed owing to flood damage many moons ago and would have been singularly useful a couple of years ago when the Dawlish coastal route was taken out.

[bigd]

I suppose tey could always put back the line from Appleby to Penrith.

There is just the small matter of the route being built upon at Kikby Thore, the A66 being built over the formation, and a dozen other bridges to replace!

[locoholic]

It seems Network Rail issue a weekly email newsletter about this issue. The latest one (number 5) says that the slip is even bigger than they thought, but they've constructed a drainage channel to direct water away from the landslide and are continuing to investigate the slip. They are also constructing a viewing platform, apparently so that the public can see what is going on, which is nice, but I wouldn't have thought it was a top priority. It also contrasts with the situation at Dover, where NR seem to be keen to keep people away.

[PenrithBeacon]

... They are also constructing a viewing platform, apparently so that the public can see what is going on, which is nice, but I wouldn't have thought it was a top priority. It also contrasts with the situation at Dover, where NR seem to be keen to keep people away.

Perhaps it's really for the gaffers so they can watch the proles actually working.

 

Regards

[don]

Perhaps it's really for the gaffers so they can watch the proles actually working.

 

Regards

As this area is very popular with walkers ,photographers and artists etc, its probably a good idea rather than having people wandering around trying to see whats going on.

You may be surprised how many people use these trains from Leeds and Bradford to get up into the hills for a days walking,even in the middle of winter!

My daughter is one of them,she doesn't drive.

[Fat Controller]

It seems Network Rail issue a weekly email newsletter about this issue. The latest one (number 5) says that the slip is even bigger than they thought, but they've constructed a drainage channel to direct water away from the landslide and are continuing to investigate the slip. They are also constructing a viewing platform, apparently so that the public can see what is going on, which is nice, but I wouldn't have thought it was a top priority. It also contrasts with the situation at Dover, where NR seem to be keen to keep people away.

To be fair to NR, there are not many places at Dover where they could wander about without endangering their safety- for the first few weeks, the beach was like a huge sandpit filled with Tonka Toys, so definitely not for pedestrians, whilst now, the activity is mainly at rail level, and only visible from a view-point such as David Todd uses. The only other places to observe any of the work at Dover from are either a boat, or from a helicopter.

[locoholic]

Latest email update received from NR: they're still working out a solution. The MP for Carlisle has visited.

 

They'll try to bring in as much material as possible to minimise the impact on local roads.

 

The slip has now moved 1.5 metres.

[lmsforever]

This is really a massive problem and is going  to test NR,s ingenuity and lets hope that MP,s and others don't cause trouble.

[ColinK]

A quick heads up for anyone trying to get to Settle Station. The main street in Settle is being resurfaced, today it is one way (northbound) with several local diversions (one includes a low bridge). Access to the station by road looks difficult. Locals tell me the work is due to take three weeks and the main road will be closed some nights. There are also some overnight closures of the A65 at Coniston Cold - its a long way round.

 

Today I was driving the Skipton - Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale bus service, as well as the Settle roadworks and diversion, there were six more sets of roadworks. Stressful day.

[lmsforever]

What make and model bus do you drive please ?

[jamie92208]

A quick heads up for anyone trying to get to Settle Station. The main street in Settle is being resurfaced, today it is one way (northbound) with several local diversions (one includes a low bridge). Access to the station by road looks difficult. Locals tell me the work is due to take three weeks and the main road will be closed some nights. There are also some overnight closures of the A65 at Coniston Cold - its a long way round.

 

Today I was driving the Skipton - Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale bus service, as well as the Settle roadworks and diversion, there were six more sets of roadworks. Stressful day.

 

They mist be getting ready for the Tour de Yorkshire which has a start and a finish at Settle.

 

Jamie

[The Lurker]

I found out over the Easter weekend that my parents have booked up a Great Rail Journey for late May. The highlight for my Dad who has always wanted to travel it is to be the Settle-Carlisle part. What are the chances that this will be open by then?

[jamie92208]

I found out over the Easter weekend that my parents have booked up a Great Rail Journey for late May. The highlight for my Dad who has always wanted to travel it is to be the Settle-Carlisle part. What are the chances that this will be open by then?

 

Unfortunately virtually nil as I don't think that they have even identified a solution yet.  It would be possible for them to do Hellifield to Appleby and the either a bus or a return journey then over via Carnforth to the WCML

 

Jamie

[ColinK]

What make and model bus do you drive please ?

Yesterday I had a Mercedes Citaro, we also use Optare Solos and a Optare Excel.

[jamie92208]

Yesterday I had a Mercedes Citaro, we also use Optare Solos and a Optare Excel.

 

Totally off topic but has your company taken over the old Pennine routes and which company is it now.

 

Jamie

[ColinK]

Hi Jamie, Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire (KLCH) have operated the Kirkby Lonsdale to Settle bus service for many years. Pennine ran a Settle to Skipton bus service which ceased when Pennine closed. After a gap, KLCH exended their service to Skipton on a commercial basis (ie no Council funding) with considerable help from local people in promoting it. I sometimes drive this service, nice scenery, nice passengers and views of S&C trains. I also drive their coaches, including quite a bit of rail replacement work.

[lmsforever]

Shame Pennine closed but the main thing is that people have a bus service lucky you driving in such a lovely part of the UK  the Citaro seems to becoming a very popular bus these days.