Hornby's financial updates to the Stock Market

[Clearwater]

It must really be a delicate balancing act getting quantities right on some things. I suspect the first run of 2-BILs was very much a toe in the water job notwithstanding strong support for the idea from some retailers and parts of the sales team - hence the first run was smaller in total of all liveries than Bachmann's run of the Blue Pullman. We simply don't know how many of which are made and we don't know either how Hornby's financial plan works against new models - for example is it like the way some commissioners work with the first run intended to clear all the development costs or do Hornby spread those costs over further runs? Things like that affect viability, especially when you start underselling in a dash for headline cash sales figures.

With usual caveats about the lack of info we have, I wonder the extent to which the batch run issue is affected by the poor retailer relationships. If they've lost the market Intel providing by a reps on what shops are saying demand is likely to be, I can see how they could get this wrong. Equally I can see how a quick selling first run may lead to a mistaken decision to repeat an order.

 

I'd note Bachmann appear better at not reordering popular run/ but instead using the tooling for other liveries - eg city class or the c class. Hornby's choice of one off prototypes eg 71000 or 2001 lends itself to less livery options (I know 71000 has had several liveries but I'd suggest to the man on the Clapham omnibus these are hard to differentiate and why would I want several of the same loco in different liveries plus not much use to the commercial renamers, eg TMC)

 

David

[ed 66 plant]

Well I for one would not be upset if Hornby could release a electrostar model to the same standard as their 153. As a model, it looks like what it's supposed to be, runs well, is detailed enough to pass in today's market, but if you look at how many parts it has it is obviously designed with simplifying the production process. The underframe with all the bits for the engine and such is a simple mould making quick assembly and whilst not as good as it could be, it does pass for what it is. It is better than the old 156 with its box with moulded on relief. Modern trains with their smooth lines actually make themselves moor suitable for a design clever type of model.

Please tell me how your picture of TWATT is at all relevent to this topic--it isn,t funny,smart and seems entirely  innapropriate and extremely rude.I would hold this view irrespective of who might be your target.

Ed

[Andy Y]

A little bit of satire is permissible.

[The Stationmaster]

Please tell me how your picture of TWATT is at all relevent to this topic--it isn,t funny,smart and seems entirely  innapropriate and extremely rude.I would hold this view irrespective of who might be your target.

Ed

 

Bloomin' heck - the bloke has made over 1,000 posts and you've only just noticed his avatar   

 

Like the boss said - a little bit of satire is permissible (so I understand)  

[Ian J.]

I was going to say something similar. Cheesysmith has had that avatar for donkeys. It's hardly anything new and as far as I know, is nothing to do with anything happening in politics at the moment - in fact, is there anything big happening in politics at the moment? Scrap that, any answer would get this thread locked...

 

[steve1023]

The 2HAL is good example of why?. It feels like a better produced model than the similar 2BIL, but is it a model that really needed to be produced - could resources have been spent better on an all new class 91 or 156 (sorry I keep mentioning these two, they are not models I particularly desire, but they do have great potential with regards to number of liveries carried, and in the case of the 156 huge geographical coverage)

 

Hornby this year have announced an A version rail blue 2HAL, but most shops are still stocking the original version which only came out last summer. To produce/ship & distribute costs Hornby money & if the first version is still sitting on the shelves then what's the point of doing a second one. It is this type of bizarre decision which is costing Hornby money, and so is the mad choice to duplicate the class 71.

 

Steve

[BG John]

I know it doesn't work with the current business model, but surely modellers need all the products Hornby have produced "on the shelves". If I had a sudden urge, or the opportunity, to model my home town station in the days of my youth, I'd need green 2-BILs and 2-HALs, but if 2-BILs are sold out, and only 2-HALs are on the shelves, I'd be a bit stuck. It's exciting to buy something the moment it becomes available, and selling a lot of a production run quickly is good for the survival of the business, but the current system seems to only serve the interests of collectors.

[Ben Alder]

Please tell me how your picture of TWATT is at all relevent to this topic--it isn,t funny,smart and seems entirely  innapropriate and extremely rude.I would hold this view irrespective of who might be your target.

Ed

 

Perfectly acceptable place and surname in Orkney.

[RJS1977]

The 2HAL is good example of why?. It feels like a better produced model than the similar 2BIL, but is it a model that really needed to be produced - could resources have been spent better on an all new class 91 or 156 (sorry I keep mentioning these two, they are not models I particularly desire, but they do have great potential with regards to number of liveries carried, and in the case of the 156 huge geographical coverage)

 

 

 

I'd say there is more logic in making a model of something that hasn't already been released, than producing an "all-new" version of something that's already in the range. Most of the people who want a 156 or a 91 will have bought the existing model, but they may not want to/afford to buy another one just because it's a new all-singing,all-dancing version (if someone runs an analogue layout, they're not likely to rush out and buy a new version of a model they've already got just because it now has a DCC socket in it,for example). Much better to provide something else to complement the models people already have (like a Class 185).

[JSpencer]

The 2HAL is good example of why?. It feels like a better produced model than the similar 2BIL, but is it a model that really needed to be produced - could resources have been spent better on an all new class 91 or 156 (sorry I keep mentioning these two, they are not models I particularly desire, but they do have great potential with regards to number of liveries carried, and in the case of the 156 huge geographical coverage)

Hornby this year have announced an A version rail blue 2HAL, but most shops are still stocking the original version which only came out last summer. To produce/ship & distribute costs Hornby money & if the first version is still sitting on the shelves then what's the point of doing a second one. It is this type of bizarre decision which is costing Hornby money, and so is the mad choice to duplicate the class 71.

Steve

The HAL and BIL use the exact same chassis and under frames. I have three BILs bug just one HAL. The reason is simple, one BIL is at the NRM. Then there are detailed variants in the BILs, in buffers of whistle vs horn, so that dictated a second and it was going cheap. The third I got because it was in the bargain bin as well and represents the type in the early 60s. For the HAL, there are now variants and BR versions are limited. However I agree why no new 91 and new mark 4s is a mystery!

[250BOB]

Bloomin' heck - the bloke has made over 1,000 posts and you've only just noticed his avatar

 

Perhaps that's because his activity (106 posts) on RMweb is very low compared to some.!!

[Grovenor]

Perhaps that's because his activity (106 posts) on RMweb is very low compared to some.!!

How do you get from 'over 1000' to 'just 106' ? As I write this his count stands at 1009.

Regards

[Legend]

I do see a lack of vision in the range and this has meant paying more attention to wish lists than I think has been healthy. Trouble with wish lists is , as more and more mainstream subjects are taken, the low hanging fruit as it were, you are chasing ever dwindling returns. I fear this will manifest itself with the 71 . I know it's Southern , it was near the top of the list of D&E wants, but let's face it most. Other classes are already available. There is a perception at the moment that everything Southern will sell , but I really can't see it. It had a very narrow operating area and not a particularly exciting shape. You really need the third rail as well. Worst still another company is making it! The third rail units seem to have peaked after a relatively short time, with many bargains to be had.

 

Again I think a panel of enthusiasts could prove advantageous to a Hornby . What variants of the existing range would sell best. Might even be the case of curtailing the 2016 range in favour of some of the suggestions. Get the cash flow up with less danger of stock on shelves. As examples I'd say

 

Blue /grey mk1s

Single Chimney Collet tender Castle in late BR Livery

Railroad BR green Flying Scotsman , also a set with said loco and three Crimson Cream coaches

 

Complete revamp of Railroad range

Class 66, 156 , 91 should be in it in various liveries (and out of main range) . Probably the HST and mk3s as well . There is a need for a simple large hopper in EWS/Freighliner liveries maybe with a play factor eg empty and refilling. The big steamers yo can see on real railway Tornado and FS should be in there to on the liveries you can currently see them in.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Legend

[250BOB]

How do you get from 'over 1000' to 'just 106' ? As I write this his count stands at 1009.

Regards

I was referring to the activity of Ed Plant at 106 posts, it's no surprise at that level of RMweb activity that the avatar referred to had not been seen by him previously.

[toboldlygo]

I do see a lack of vision in the range and this has meant paying more attention to wish lists than I think has been healthy. Trouble with wish lists is , as more and more mainstream subjects are taken, the low hanging fruit as it were, you are chasing ever dwindling returns. I fear this will manifest itself with the 71 . I know it's Southern , it was near the top of the list of D&E wants, but let's face it most. Other classes are already available. There is a perception at the moment that everything Southern will sell , but I really can't see it. It had a very narrow operating area and not a particularly exciting shape. You really need the third rail as well. Worst still another company is making it! The third rail units seem to have peaked after a relatively short time, with many bargains to be had.

 

Again I think a panel of enthusiasts could prove advantageous to a Hornby . What variants of the existing range would sell best. Might even be the case of curtailing the 2016 range in favour of some of the suggestions. Get the cash flow up with less danger of stock on shelves. As examples I'd say

 

Blue /grey mk1s

Single Chimney Collet tender Castle in late BR Livery

Railroad BR green Flying Scotsman , also a set with said loco and three Crimson Cream coaches

 

Complete revamp of Railroad range

Class 66, 156 , 91 should be in it in various liveries (and out of main range) . Probably the HST and mk3s as well . There is a need for a simple large hopper in EWS/Freighliner liveries maybe with a play factor eg empty and refilling. The big steamers yo can see on real railway Tornado and FS should be in there to on the liveries you can currently see them in.

 

Also add a Double Chimney Hawksworth Tender Castle in Late BR - they keep doing them with Collets lol

And the elusive Second Series Air-smoothed Light Pacific with the 4,500gl cut-down tender - Hornby keep doing Exeter, how about the last of the Class - 66 Squadron?

[RJS1977]

Still plenty of modern-day DMUs (Adelante, Meridian and 175 spring immediately to mind) that nobody's done yet.

[Ozexpatriate]

Hornby's financial troubles aren't related to not doing enough of the 'right' D&E models, or doing too many niche steam locomotives, or confusing the positioning of their branding alternatives.

 

In my opinion they are much more related to fundamental business management decisions about how the company is run, in terms of banking, manufacturing operations, sales and investments in 'special projects'.

[skipepsi]

Hornby's financial troubles aren't related to not doing enough of the 'right' D&E models, or doing too many niche steam locomotives, or confusing the positioning of their branding alternatives.

 

In my opinion they are much more related to fundamental business management decisions about how the company is run, in terms of banking, manufacturing operations, sales and investments in 'special projects'.

Or salaries?

[The Stationmaster]

Or salaries?

 

I believe the correct term is 'fees' (or is it now also called 'compensation'?)

[Ozexpatriate]

Or salaries?

I believe the correct term is 'fees' (or is it now also called 'compensation'?)

Certainly not just 'salaries'. "Executive compensation packages" yes - much more than salaries.

[Coryton]

I've just seen that the Hornby web site has last year's Christmas set in stock for £70, while you can pre-order the new version (circular not oval loop) for £50.

 

I thought they were sold out. Maybe they found some more in their stocktake...but I find it very odd that they were selling off Mk 1 coaches cheaply in their "last chance to buy" section, but don't see the need to discount last year's Christmas set...

Edited February 28, 2016 by Coryton

[skipepsi]

Certainly not just 'salaries'. "Executive compensation packages" yes - much more than salaries.

Excessive however you pronounce it!

[Fenman]

...

Complete revamp of Railroad range

Class 66, 156 , 91 should be in it in various liveries (and out of main range) . Probably the HST and mk3s as well ...

You think the brand-new, super-detailed HST should be in the Railroad range? One of the best D&E models they have...?

 

I can actually see quite a lot of joined-up thinking in much of their range - or, at least, the ex-GER bits I'm mainly interested in. Each new product year brings models that fit with what has gone before.

 

I can see how that may not work for people with other interests. Though I think it's a bit odd that we expect Hornby to provide every single model that should work together, while not holding any other manufacturer to the same standards. Even the mighty Hornby is a relative minnow. And I'm happy to mix their product with Bachmann and Heljan locos to achieve the effect I want.

 

Paul

[Pacific231G]

Bloomin' heck - the bloke has made over 1,000 posts and you've only just noticed his avatar   

 

Like the boss said - a little bit of satire is permissible (so I understand)  

Couldnt't agree more. Fortunately we live in a country where being rude about the government in power doesn't get you shot, chucked into some torture chamber or a cup of Polonium laced tea.

[RJS1977]

You think the brand-new, super-detailed HST should be in the Railroad range? One of the best D&E models they have...?

 

 

I don't think he's saying that. But Hornby have not one but two budget-priced HSTs in their back catalogues and neither are currently available! As I've said several times, if we want to encourage youngsters into the hobby, it helps if they can obtain models of the trains they see every day at a price they (or their paremts/aunts/uncles) can afford.

 

How about a version in the new GWR green?