Inspired by Brent June 1947

[The Fatadder]

25 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

Step way from ebay...

 

I had a couple of searches saved for some brown stock. Next time I looked in the bits box I had about 10 odd wagons that all need tlc as they were cheap ebay ideas. 

 

74xx sounds nice though.. 

I currently have just below the maximum number of saved searches, all be it a few of them are for things like 1947 Great Western working timetables which very rarely produce any hits.

 

The problem is that it ends up burning through modelling funds that were allocated for something else, in this case my Manor will have to wait a bit longer for a chassis 

[81C]

On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 15:40, 81C said:

Would that be with Rover Russet Brown Rich ?.

I used it for the first time today on an Airfix B set it comes up in a nice finish I might do the odd Siphon if I can get proof they were painted with this colour. 

[Siberian Snooper]

On 27/02/2019 at 12:31, The Fatadder said:

I still haven't quite managed to free up enough space to work on the double slip, but I am getting close.  I think part of why I am putting it off is the need to file up 4 more pairs of switch rails...

 

However the main reason is that I cant quite get my J12 project off the bench (that is a GWR sleeper rather than some northern 0-6-0).  However the body is now ready for painting (bar the fitting of two missing droplights), and the chassis cant progress until the bogies arrive (or are ordered...) 

 

While on the subject of the J12, its a good time to touch upon the operations for the layout.

 

My intention is that eventually I want to be able to run a full 24 hour period running everything that ran through Brent.  In order to achieve this I am working through a combination of fixed formations (such as my Cornish Rivera set where I have actual reference coach numbers / diagrams to form an accurate formation) and a pool of various coaches from which to build other formations.   

 

Back to the sleeper, I have not found any photos showing the full train (or for that matter a 1947 condition J12, the only photo being a 1949 shot in Russel which has been defaced with BR style 1s on the doors).  The lack of photos is not exactly surprising, given the difficulties I had researching the 1998 equivalent working.  Fortunately for 1947 I have the necessary coach working documents to have a good crack at it.

 

There were 3 down sleeper services, the 21:50 and 23:50 both including a single J12 as part of a passenger service, while the 00:15 included two J12s as part of a newspaper train.  I was a little surprised with the latter, a very antisocial departure time for first class travel.  I had originally expected this to be the J11 sleeper thirds...

 

There was only a single  train returning the sleepers to London, the 20:40 from Penzance (picking up one additional sleeper at Plymouth). 

 

 

Could the 00.15 departure be to accommodate those that have been to the theatre for the evening?

 

 

[M.I.B]

19 hours ago, 81C said:

I used it for the first time today on an Airfix B set it comes up in a nice finish I might do the odd Siphon if I can get proof they were painted with this colour. 

I think Russett Brown is more like Austerity Brown. 

 

Its way way to glossy and orange to go on SIPHONs 

 

I know there are slight difference between each manufacturer’s interpretation of dull brown for SIPHONs which is a good thing when you take into account that the real things were subject to fading and were probably never washed (effects of all the smoke back then etc)

 

But Russett Brown is stretching it too far I think. 

[81C]

10 minutes ago, M.I.B said:

I think Russett Brown is more like Austerity Brown. 

 

Its way way to glossy and orange to go on SIPHONs 

 

I know there are slight difference between each manufacturer’s interpretation of dull brown for SIPHONs which is a good thing when you take into account that the real things were subject to fading and were probably never washed (effects of all the smoke back then etc)

 

But Russett Brown is stretching it too far I think. 

It's a good match to a coach painted that colour at Didcot Museum it suits me, once they are weathered and sprayed with satin varnish they will be OK 

Btw I don't think Halfords do a Austerity Brown 

Edited March 2, 2019 by 81C

[The Fatadder]

No idea if any syphons gained the reddish brown wartime livery, but it looks perfect on a coach.

 

From conversations at the last Didcot visit it sounded like there were lots of different shades of wartime brown.  To get a darker version spray into black.

 

I sprayed mine on white which gets a very close match to the coach at Didcot.   

My dean clerestory was sprayed Russett Brown onto black, which gives a darker brown.

[81C]

I rubbed the coaches down with 000 grade steel wool (very fine) then being a lazy ar$e I sprayed straight on top of the brown and cream, it's come out dark than the Rover cars were, (a chum had one) now there's a nice ridge in the middle to guide the lining on.

I've Sharpied the glazing painted the seats, chassis, bogies and the first coat is on the rooves I'll leave that to dry over night and finish them tomorrow

and finish off with the drop lights the Composite at Didcot has blue axle caps so a discreate dab of blue will go on them.

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by 81C

[The Fatadder]

Another loco nears compleation, just needing a bit more weathering and it can take its place on the Kingsbridge branch

[81C]

Why is your Pannier going down the farm track have you been watching the Titchfield Thunderbolt film again. 

[The Fatadder]

45 minutes ago, 81C said:

Why is your Pannier going down the farm track have you been watching the Titchfield Thunderbolt film again. 

 

There is a good reason I normally only take photos from the side......

 

I really must have a look for some spare bullhead sleepers & build a length of track along it replacing the farm track.  I have a P4 photo plank and really need an OO one to go with it...

Of course if I can get some more work done on Brent I could use that.....

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

 

There is a good reason I normally only take photos from the side......

 

I really must have a look for some spare bullhead sleepers & build a length of track along it replacing the farm track.  I have a P4 photo plank and really need an OO one to go with it...

Of course if I can get some more work done on Brent I could use that.....

If you took the photos from the side on the P4 track nobody would be any the wiser...

[The Fatadder]

2 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

If you took the photos from the side on the P4 track nobody would be any the wiser...

 

True, but then the same is true with my farm track if I angle the camera properly.  The problem is how to get the 3/4 angle shot

[The Fatadder]

4855 is nearing completion, must avoid further distraction and get that slip built 

 

although my syphon kit is sat on the shelf next to the bench looking tempting 

[The Fatadder]

Finally some work on the double slip, some rail preparation.

 

I now need to get the 4 pairs of switch blades files to profile (starting after supper).  Then I can start work on assembling the slip.

 

This will be built on a core of copper clad sleepers (with scrap etch to lift the rail to match the plastic chairs).  The rest will be plastic chairs (which will need fitting in place before soldering)  

 

This time I have extended the rail by 6 inches to the platform side in order that it fixes the curve into the platform (which will now have a check rail).  Hopefully this solves the running problems.)

[The Fatadder]

The switch blades have been prepared on the filing jig and now just need the final clean up / debur before starting construction.

 

the first job will be forming the last angles and then soldering the check rails into position. After which I can start building properly.

 

however tonight I was distracted by 4855, which now has cab roof vents and a coat of weathered black over al the black bits.  Depending on how tomorrow’s eBaying goes, I will get the plates ordered next week.

just need to search the carpet for the missing vent...

[The Fatadder]

Finally some progress on the actual layout, last night I rebuilt the double slip for the Exeter end of the station. 

 

This is time I am changing a few aspects of the point in order to try and ensure the dammed thing actually works.

- Extend the check rails onto the reverse curve into the platform.

- Build on copperclad sleepers, (I will use a sheet of 20thou to raise the height to match the rest of the track)

- Control it with 4 point motors not 2

- Build it off board, allowing better inspection / test

 

This should given better adjustment to ensure it’s the right shape, plus give the switches the best chance of working properly 

 

Of course I ran out of copper clad half way through, so the missing sleepers are likely to be plastic 

 

The point is mostly hidden under the bridge, (it is of course the reason the cutting and bridge supports have not been built).  I will be adding chairs to the copperclad to finish it off.

 

i have been testing using bits of scrap plastic to hold the switch blades apart, pushing through a B4 bogie and a 74xx.  So far it has been successful, but it’s what happens once installed on the layout that really matters.

 

The next task is to add the four tie bars, so that it can be properly tested and installed.

 

Then it needs the sleepers cutting to isolate the two rails, wiring up and the cosmetic chairs / remaining sleepers adding.

 

hopefully I can then run a train out of the platform and onto the Kingsbridge branch....

 

 

[The Fatadder]

Another night’s progress on the slip focused around producing the tie bars.  I have worked around the principle described by @St Enodoc as per below, in principle it uses the two sleepers nearest to the end of the switch rails as the tie bar.

Quote

 

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

For ease of reference, the description of the equalising links is here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/&do=findComment&comment=2786496

and the video of them in operation is here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94350-mid-cornwall-lines-1950s-western-region-in-00/&do=findComment&comment=2929368

 

 

I have differed slightly in that I have used a copperclad sleeper (half thickness) rather than a wooden one with pins.   It makes the electrical isolation more difficult, however I much prefer the greater adjustability it offers.  Of course this does come with the risk of a failed solder joint and not a lot of room to fix it once the isolating gap between the two switches has been filed.   I do have a plan to mitigate this, in that I am going to drill large diameter holes under the ends of the switch blades to enable under board tiebars to be retrofitted (with pins soldered to the switch rails) if necessary, I am not keen on this approach but I think it will be the easiest fix should the tiebars fail.  (Note that I have only experienced failure of this soldered copperclad approach on the old slip, with the other 27 switches performing perfectly so far.  I think the reason was down to the extra stress coming from trying to run both switches off one tie bar.)

By the nature of this approach there is some compromise, the sleepers are not correctly aligned (needing to be twisted to better match the angle of the switch).  Ballasting also looks like it will be difficult, and the area under the point will definitely need a good coat of brown paint before fitting.

 

Once done it was time for some testing, a Kernow Models 1361 was the perfect choice combining a poor chassis design, close coupled 6 wheel chassis and the fact that it doesn’t have a motor making it ideal for the job.  It was able to run in all directions without derailments, with only a potential tight spot running from the yard to the branch (it’s a little narrow to gauge and will need easing out.)

The next job is to solder up the linkage between the two sleepers which enables both to move independently (so that once one switch hits the outer rail, the other can continue until it closes.)  

Other than the linkage the remaining jobs are to cut the sleeper isolating gaps, isolate the vee / check rails from the rest of the point and to cut the remaining plastic sleepers to length to fill the gaps (these will also be fitted with chairs to hold in place)

Hopefully I will be able to get it installed and wired up this weekend and recommence track testing.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by The Fatadder
Add photos

[The Fatadder]

After deciding to put my Finney Dean Goods kit that is unlikely to be built in the foreseeable future onto eBay to raise funds, I am planning to flip the proceeds into a Finney Bulldog.

 

This leads to a question as to which one to go for.

 

Given I have yet to get round to buying a copy of the survey of Great Western loco sheds 1947 I am relying on the railuk database for allocations in December 1947, and cross referencing to the Finney instructions from the Brassmasters website to get the lot numbers.

 

Newton Abbot had 5 Bulldogs listed on shed, of which I think I have a photo of Madras.   While the Finney notes say what boiler the loco was built with, I don’t know what they would have in 1947 and assume a lot of change.

Newton had 3341 (Lot 124 with small cab cut out, built with parallel boiler), 3383 Lot 142 and 3400/3407 Lot 148 with half coned boiler, and finally 3430 Lot 163 with full coned boiler.

 

Laira had an allocation of 6 Bulldogs, 3391/3401 Lot 148 with half coned boiler, 3431 Lot 163 with full coned boiler and 3441/3445/3446 Birds with deep frames and a full cone boiler.

 

Finally Exeter had just 2 Bulldogs, 3335 with curved frames and 3395 from lot 148.

 

Now at £140 for the kit + 30 for a tender and another 60+ for wheels and motor, I am not going to be able to have a large fleet.  However given the need to provide a good number of Bulldogs as assisting engines, (as well as their use on local freight) my need for the class is high.  It is also clear from the design of the Bachmann Earl that they have future intention of releasing a Bulldog at some point (they just need to tool the boiler / cab after all).  I think this would be closest to either the Lot 142/148/163 depending on choice of boiler.

But who knows if or when that would happen.

 

Based on the sample of locos above a Lot 148 would make the most sense, but if that’s the most likely to be made by Bachmann its potentially the least interesting to kit build.

3335 from Exeter would probably be the most likely not to appear RTR, but its also the least useful as an assisting engine. That leaves me with either 3341 (if I can confirm its boiler type) or one of the Birds as the most promising candidates.   Assuming it still carried it, 3341 would be an interesting model given its oval name plate.

 

[Siberian Snooper]

I have just perused  RCTS Vol 7

 

And here's the dates of the boiler type changes for the Bulldogs you have listed,  I hope I have not made any mistakes, basically most had D3 boilers and a few had Std 3 boilers.

 

3407  D3 from  2/11                                                                                         3401 D3 from 11/11

3341 D3 from  12/10                                                                                        3431 D3 from 10/13

3383 D3 from  2/15 except  7/34 to 9/41 when a Std 3 was fitted.          3441 D3 from  11/13

3400 Std 3 from  1/44                                                                                      3445 D3 from 12/13

3430 Std 3 from 1/44                                                                                       3335 D3 as built

3391 Std 3 from 1/44                                                                                       3395 Std 3 from 1/44

 

 

HTH.

 

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

3341 still had it's oval name/numberplate when it received it's BR smokebox numberplate if that's any help.

 

 

https://www.deviantart.com/rlkitterman/art/GWR-3341-Blasius-at-Exeter-St-Davids-547127296

 

 

Jason

[The Fatadder]

On the Bulldog front, I think it looks like 3341 is the clear winner.  Given the loco was withdrawn in 1949 its condition (minus the silly plate on the front) would be pretty similar to the photo (topfeed, 3/4 coned boiler small cab cut outs).  

 

Back to the double slip, I have now fitted the linkage between the two tie bars were prepared following @St Enodoc's instructions, bending brass pins to shape and soldering them to a washer.  The latter is slightly to big a diameter (1mm vs 0.8mm), but should be ok (if not the Tortoise pin can be sleeved).  Note that I am already using a beefed up Tortoise linkage from 0.8mm piano wire. 

 

The remaining plastic sleepers have all been cut to length, and just need a little cleaning up before gluing to the rail.  Before doing that I will give the whole point a quick dunk in some CIF followed by a good wash down to remove any flux residue.  After which it will be ready for installation onto the layout, and the associated point motor install / wiring. 

 Ballasting is going to be “interesting” as the 4 tie bar sleepers need to be able to move freely.  I have been having thoughts along the lines of making an off board jig upon which to make 4 rectangles of ballast of the appropriate sizes and then transferred to the model.  It can then be fully tested before I can finally get the layout’s track painted.

 

 

All good news as I have had a delivery from Wizard Models (thanks for the fast turnaround of my order), this contains a Comet chassis for 7804 along with a set of Markits driving wheels.  Checking the etches against the model I think it needs 2mm removing under the cab, and a further 2mm deep section removing towards the front.  Though I fully expect further work will be required to get a good fit.  Looking forward to getting this one built and finishing off the Manor.

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by The Fatadder

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

On the Bulldog front, I think it looks like 3341 is the clear winner.  Given the loco was withdrawn in 1949 its condition (minus the silly plate on the front) would be pretty similar to the photo (topfeed, 3/4 coned boiler small cab cut outs).  

 

Back to the double slip, I have now fitted the linkage between the two tie bars were prepared following @St Enodoc's instructions, bending brass pins to shape and soldering them to a washer.  The latter is slightly to big a diameter (1mm vs 0.8mm), but should be ok (if not the Tortoise pin can be sleeved).  Note that I am already using a beefed up Tortoise linkage from 0.8mm piano wire. 

 

The remaining plastic sleepers have all been cut to length, and just need a little cleaning up before gluing to the rail.  Before doing that I will give the whole point a quick dunk in some CIF followed by a good wash down to remove any flux residue.  After which it will be ready for installation onto the layout, and the associated point motor install / wiring. 

 

 Ballasting is going to be “interesting” as the 4 tie bar sleepers need to be able to move freely.  I have been having thoughts along the lines of making an off board jig upon which to make 4 rectangles of ballast of the appropriate sizes and then transferred to the model.  It can then be fully tested before I can finally get the layout’s track painted.

 

 

All good news as I have had a delivery from Wizard Models (thanks for the fast turnaround of my order), this contains a Comet chassis for 7804 along with a set of Markits driving wheels.  Checking the etches against the model I think it needs 2mm removing under the cab, and a further 2mm deep section removing towards the front.  Though I fully expect further work will be required to get a good fit.  Looking forward to getting this one built and finishing off the Manor.

 

 

 

Rich, I think the slightly larger hole will be OK as there is plenty of throw on the Tortoise and a bit of slop will help as the tiebars will change their relative angle on account of the soldered fixings for the blades.

 

For ballast, why not take a photo of your favourite ballast and cut a print to size to go under the tiebars? Don't forget to reduce the level of the trackbed under the tiebars to allow them and the link to move freely.

 

Finally, looking at your photo make sure your insulating gaps on the tiebars are in the right place - the one on front left might be a bit close to the rail and could cause a short when the blades move.

 

Good luck!

[The Fatadder]

3 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Rich, I think the slightly larger hole will be OK as there is plenty of throw on the Tortoise and a bit of slop will help as the tiebars will change their relative angle on account of the soldered fixings for the blades.

 

For ballast, why not take a photo of your favourite ballast and cut a print to size to go under the tiebars? Don't forget to reduce the level of the trackbed under the tiebars to allow them and the link to move freely.

 

Finally, looking at your photo make sure your insulating gaps on the tiebars are in the right place - the one on front left might be a bit close to the rail and could cause a short when the blades move.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks, you are right it does look far too close to the tie bar.  I need some time in the house with no children sleeping (rather than working on it at night) so I can crack out the Dremel and a cutting disk and complete the isolation gaps.  (I also need to trim a lot of the sleepers down to the exact length to tidy things up a bit. 

The tie bars themselves are 1.5mm copper clad rather than the 2mm full thickness used for the rest of the sleepers.  Once I drill the hole for the actuating arm to connect to the linkage I will counter sink it to give clearance for the linkage pins (which may be slightly lower than the main sleepers.  The whole lot needs mounting on a sheet of 20thou to raise the completed slip to match the rest of the track.

 

Oh and I need to solder the power lead on to the NCE panel for the powercab to replace the socket that has broken off, without which I cant do any testing!   I am hoping when retesting the Plymouth end double slip, that it still works fully and I don't need to build yet another one!

[81C]

Hi Rich I've got a Staedtler triplus fineliner neon orange the test piece looks really good, better than Bachmann's orange lining on their loco's

[The Fatadder]

1 hour ago, 81C said:

Hi Rich I've got a Staedtler triplus fineliner neon orange the test piece looks really good, better than Bachmann's orange lining on their loco's

Do they have a gold for coach lining?

sounds worth a try