Inspired by Brent June 1947

[St Enodoc]

40 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

It’s a strange one, particularly prevalent when using my phone.  Most annoying

It's been very noticeable this week on my computer, not the phone. Others have experienced it too.

[Siberian Snooper]

I get them when I use my tablet. 

 

 

[bgman]

3 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I get them when I use my tablet. 

 

 

 

Very often take a few after reading some stuff on other threads ! 

[The Fatadder]

While last night was not overly productive on the layout itself, I have managed to make real progress on clearing out the operating well & reorganising the garage to better optimise storage (and more importantly remove a lot of the clutter that is getting in the way of accessing the layout.  This has ended up with 2 shelving units under the layout (one containing the stock boxes and the other the tools / scenic materials.)  A 4ft length has been opened up to store Wheal Imogen (which has sadly suffered some damage since it was last out.   Looking at the location where I have put the layout, there is actually potential with some further organisation (and modification to the fiddleyard) that I could set the layout up about 2ft off the ground (and operate sitting on a footstall). 

 

I still need to repeat the process for the other side of the garage (under the fiddleyard) which currently includes my painting area + compressor, a 4ft bay that’s full of junk, a 5ft bay containing Kits Croft and a couple of large boxes extending into the operating well that need taking to the dump.   Once that’s done there are a few other planned improvements (such as getting a coat of paint on the walls & celling, and adding edging to the front edge of the layout (rather than the current exposed beams).   All jobs which should have been done a long long time ago!

 

With significant progress made on the room tidy, some more work on the platforms followed.  I have been trawling through the inside workshop looking for 40 thou plasticard, and found a handful of off cuts and another complete A4 sheet.   The latter still needs to be installed (tonight) but the rest has all been used, extending the rear platform past the station building.   In order to complete this the location of the footbridge, station and signal box all needed to be finalised, then marked up onto the platform surface.  This in turn means that I can now finalise the design of the platform canopy (and draw up the final design of the down waiting room taking into account its canopies). 

While I wait for more platform materials the next job will be dealing with the track issues.

Edited January 31, 2020 by The Fatadder

[The Great Bear]

I can sympathise with the storage issues - you can never have too much storage. I am an inherently untidy person and having a man cave where SWMBO never ventures brings out the worst in me. It is far to easy to just put something down on the layout as it's a nice relatively flat large and accessible area temporarily then leave it there for months with a steady pile of additions. At least your layout is at a relatively early stage of construction, hopefully not too much to get damaged. I have a couple of signals I need to re-build which have suffered from storage system. For months now each weekend I vow I will get it tidied up and run a train or two, still haven't managed that.

[The Fatadder]

Signals are a tricky one, I think I’m likely installing too early (using Dapol signals) but I haven’t wired them in yet so can remove when working on the layout in that area.

 

i keep thinking I need some sort of protection for them once it’s finished, so they are not nocked when track cleaning or putting the covers over the layout.

 

 

i haven’t ran a train in well over a year...

[Tallpaul69]

21 hours ago, The Great Bear said:

I can sympathise with the storage issues - you can never have too much storage. I am an inherently untidy person and having a man cave where SWMBO never ventures brings out the worst in me. It is far to easy to just put something down on the layout as it's a nice relatively flat large and accessible area temporarily then leave it there for months with a steady pile of additions. At least your layout is at a relatively early stage of construction, hopefully not too much to get damaged. I have a couple of signals I need to re-build which have suffered from storage system. For months now each weekend I vow I will get it tidied up and run a train or two, still haven't managed that.

Hi all,

I know what you and Fatadder  mean about storage.

While I am fortunate in having a separate room at the back of the garage for storage, I have only this week made a concerted effort to get the last part of it racked and stock moved into it out of the fruit boxes it has sat in for over two years since being packed up prior to us leaving our old house!

 

It probably wouldn't have got done now but for having to move the stack of boxes to allow our failed tumble dryer which is in one corner of the area to be changed.

 

Fortunately it didn't take as long as I had allowed, so have also managed to start up a new Thread "Lower Thames Yard" to document my upcoming 00 layout taking inspiration from the Wycombe Branch junction at Maidenhead in the early 60s.

 

Keep posting the inspiration!

 

Cheers

Paul

[Siberian Snooper]

If you build your own signals, MERG do a very nice range of 3d prints that allow you to use servos below the baseboard and plug the signal(s) in as required, the connection is made using a mendiom magnets. The prints are for single arm,double arm and 4 arms. I have several, but not yet used in anger. 

[The Fatadder]

A very busy weekend did not leave a great deal of time for working on Brent, however last night I did manage to get out to the garage for about an hour.

 

The main work was focused around fixing some of the remaining track issues, so all of the points are now fully operational (above the boards at least).  There is one remaining piece of track repairs which is needed (and it’s a hard one!) fixing the point motor alignment for the Exeter double slip.  The layout is now in a position that the mainline can be retested, but the branch / yard will need that slip fixing first…

 

With that done the remaining work was around the up platform, adding the remaining plasticard to complete the base of the platform surface.  I am now awaiting a delivery from eBay with enough plasticard to complete the more difficult down platform. 

Speaking of the down platform, over the weekend I also managed to finish the cutting plans for the down waiting room.  However checking dimensions vs the layout has identified a problem.

According to the drawings (from memory) the platform should be circa 135mm wide, unfortunately mine is a lot narrower at 94mm wide.  This means that the platform canopies have to be significantly shortened (27mm vs 45mm).  While this is (just) within the minimum rules for the prototype, it is a bit tighter than I would like.  My first though was to reduce the width of the waiting room, but I don’t think I can take more than 2mm out of it.   My second thought is to look to different prototypes, is there another GWR station with a narrower than standard wooden waiting room?

[Captain Kernow]

On 01/02/2020 at 09:43, The Fatadder said:

Signals are a tricky one, I think I’m likely installing too early (using Dapol signals) but I haven’t wired them in yet so can remove when working on the layout in that area.

 

i keep thinking I need some sort of protection for them once it’s finished, so they are not nocked when track cleaning or putting the covers over the layout.

I cannot stress strongly enough that you should protect anything delicate like that, prior to all 'heavy' construction work on the layout being finished. The last thing you want to do is to have to repeat work you have already done once. By all means build (or buy) the signals and fit them to the locations, but then remove them and store them somewhere safe until you are ready for final installation! 

[The Fatadder]

8 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I cannot stress strongly enough that you should protect anything delicate like that, prior to all 'heavy' construction work on the layout being finished. The last thing you want to do is to have to repeat work you have already done once. By all means build (or buy) the signals and fit them to the locations, but then remove them and store them somewhere safe until you are ready for final installation! 

At the moment the approach is that the signals sit in their respective holes and are removed when I am working in that area.   However when the ground cover goes in around the signal, it will need securing in place to be blended into the scene.  Thankfully at that point the area around it will be pretty safe. (Except for when track cleaning...)

 

the branch starter will be more tricky, given the repair I am making to restore the damaged part of the signal, it has to be installed in a location that’s highly prone to damage before I can add the platform surface.  
 

 

 

Other than needing to finalise sizes, the down station is ready to cut.   Current thoughts are to knock up a dummy building from cereal packets to see how it looks.    
 

Then I guess I really should make a start in trying to draw up the wooden signal box, which will be the hardest of all given a lack of high res images or drawings...

[Captain Kernow]

11 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

At the moment the approach is that the signals sit in their respective holes and are removed when I am working in that area.   However when the ground cover goes in around the signal, it will need securing in place to be blended into the scene.  Thankfully at that point the area around it will be pretty safe. (Except for when track cleaning...)

 

the branch starter will be more tricky, given the repair I am making to restore the damaged part of the signal, it has to be installed in a location that’s highly prone to damage before I can add the platform surface.  

Hi Rich,

 

Surely it should be possible to contrive a brass base plate for the signals, which would sit in a correspondingly shaped shallow depression in the baseboard surface and covered in the same scenic finish as the surrounding area? This is what I did for all my layouts to date and will do on 'Callow Lane' as well, because any damage to a delicate structure such as a completed MSE signal kit has really to be done on the work bench.

 

For your platform starter, you could disguise the baseplate to look like one of the surrounding platform paving slabs (or tarmac, depending on what the surface at that location was).

 

It's a bit more work, but (to me) infinitely better than worrying about having to repair a signal in situ.

 

[Captain Kernow]

11 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Then I guess I really should make a start in trying to draw up the wooden signal box

Presumably you are modelling it before it acquired it's brick base?

 

11 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

which will be the hardest of all given a lack of high res images or drawings...

Given that the main dimensions are that of a standard Type 5 signal box, you should be able to take the main dimensions from other, published drawings.

 

Also, brick counting and scaling off the window frames should help.

 

[bgman]

39 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Surely it should be possible to contrive a brass base plate for the signals, which would sit in a correspondingly shaped shallow depression in the baseboard surface and covered in the same scenic finish as the surrounding area? 

Rich,

 

I think this is what CK may be alluding to, here is a crude base for a signal which I scratch built many, many, many years ago before getting to grips with something better.

 

It utilised a small piece of brass pipe and a square of thin brass sheet to act as a baseplate which would be disguised in whatever the ground was in which it would have been placed. I happened to find this a few days ago whilst rooting through some of my old work.

 

 

Please excuse the sorry state of the signal ( it is about 20 years old ! ) and photograph.

 

G

 

Edit : Another scratch built signal c.1997 which has travelled through hell and seems to have survived which goes to show how a small brass baseplate could be made to work.

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by bgman

[The Fatadder]

3 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Presumably you are modelling it before it acquired it's brick base?

 

Given that the main dimensions are that of a standard Type 5 signal box, you should be able to take the main dimensions from other, published drawings.

 

Also, brick counting and scaling off the window frames should help.

 

I haven’t been able to confirm 100% when the signal box was rebuilt, but I think I am right in saying it was still of full timber construction in 1947.  A shame as it looked a lot better in brick!

 

Scaling from bricks definitely seems to be the way ahead 

[The Fatadder]

A little more thought on the station building,  looking again at rough mock ups and the drawings I am coming to the conclusion that the building is going to work (just).  I have been comparing my drawings with the Timber Tracks model (which looks rather good on Stoke Cortney) as well as the 1950 prototype dimensions posted by Clive Mortimer on another thread.

 

Clive’s drawing shows a minimum width of 24mm from the wall of the building to the platform edge.

Looking at the dimensions on the Timber Tracks website, their brick built island waiting room is 104mm in width over canopy with a waiting room width of 47mm (therefore a canopy / platform depth of 29mm).

In comparison my building is slightly narrower at 41mm according to my drawing (from memory), with 25mm of canopy on each side.

 

Its not perfect, and in an ideal world I would rip everything up and re do it with a scale width platform.  However there is a reason for the compromise, (which from memory was all related to getting the curved point into the yard / double slip into position without further compromise in the length of the station.  An issue which was further compounded by the width of the garage.

 

Hopefully it will all look right once it is finished…

 

 

I have also been thinking about a few design changes, at present the drawing follows the same approach as the up station.  A sheet of 10thou for the windows, a sheet of 20 thou for the walls and an overlay of 20thou.  However this ignores the fact that the final overlay is going to be mostly cut out (given it is the timber framing).  I think a better option is to have a sheet of 20tho as a core (shorter than the rest so that it fits between the ends)  This will have large cut outs for the glazing , then the 10 thou windows, 20 thou scribed timbers (either Evergreen or using the cutter) and finally another 10thou overlay for the framing.  I am giving a lot of though to the potential of painting this prior to fitting to the model, its going to be a fiddly paint job and this has the potential of making it a lot easier.  The plan is to get the core of the building cut and glued at the weekend.  The roof & canopy will take a bit more thought & further design effort (but is less critical given that the core building needs to be painted (and given the fragile nature the canopies will not be fitted until the buildings are ready for gluing in position and surrounding work is complete)

 

 

Back to signals,

The Dapol signals that I am using do have a base plate, but it is circa 1mm thick plastic and hence needs a little more work to blend in than thin brass.  Will give it some thought and see if I can come up with a workable solution during the construction phase.  But once the layout is “complete” or at least semi complete, I don’t see any way forward when cleaning (or making other refinements) other than being very careful.  Especially in the case of the bracket signals (which are not designed to separate once connected)

[gwrrob]

32 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

I haven’t been able to confirm 100% when the signal box was rebuilt, but I think I am right in saying it was still of full timber construction in 1947.  A shame as it looked a lot better in brick!

 

 

That's what I was led to believe and I thought the box was changed in 1952 about the same time as they changed the east end overbridge.

[The Fatadder]

3 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

That's what I was led to believe and I thought the box was changed in 1952 about the same time as they changed the east end overbridge.

I think the bridge was earlier than that, 49 maybe? 
 

but interesting to try and match it up. 
 

I think I am right in saying it went  from fully timber, to a brick lower half and finally to a fully brick built rear wall.

 

I have attached extracts of two photos for discussion purposes only. 
the first is in early BR days and the second dates 1947.  Both in timber construction?

 

[Siberian Snooper]

I have been thinking about the signal(s) conundrum, would it be possible to  mount the signals on a removable section of baseboard or platform surface, so that they could be removed by just undoing the wires from a chocolate block. It should be easier to disguise the joints further away from the post.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Siberian Snooper

[Captain Kernow]

Whatever happens, you do need to have the signals removable, Rich.

 

Just imagine accidentally damaging one, if you can't get to it easily with tools, it might have to be passed at danger until further notice!

 

[checkrail]

22 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

would it be possible to  mount the signals on a removable section of baseboard or platform surface, so that they could be removed by just undoing the wires from a chocolate block.

In theory, yes.  But in the case of the Dapol bracket signals, if you platform-mount them as Rich and I have done the inseparable sub-baseboard box of tricks is wider than the platform!

[Captain Kernow]

Rich - did you ever see these photos I took in 2004?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

Rich - did you ever see these photos I took in 2004?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

So it's posted them twice, not sure what happened there, but I won't delete the duplicate post, in case it's somehow linked to the first one.

 

PM also sent.

 

[The Fatadder]

30 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Whatever happens, you do need to have the signals removable, Rich.

 

Just imagine accidentally damaging one, if you can't get to it easily with tools, it might have to be passed at danger until further notice!

 

 

25 minutes ago, checkrail said:

In theory, yes.  But in the case of the Dapol bracket signals, if you platform-mount them as Rich and I have done the inseparable sub-baseboard box of tricks is wider than the platform!

I have taken the logic that for the bracket signals, should something happen and the signal (or its repair) fail then I think it will re replaced in its enterity.  Removing the signal from the large below board control box will likely cause further damage.   

For the other signals, the soloution is to carefully cut around the edge of the baseplate and push out from below.  It worked nicely when I removed the round post signal from Wheal Imogen for reuse on Brent.  

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

So it's posted them twice, not sure what happened there, but I won't delete the duplicate post, in case it's somehow linked to the first one.

 

PM also sent.

 

No I hadn't seen them, very helpful for brick counting thanks.