Bachmann 2016 Announcements

[Combe Martin]

As usual at this time of the year, when Bachmann announce their new program and their prices, there are the claims that no-one will be able to afford them and that 'this will be the death of the hobby'

 

I'd like to know which hobby that is.

 

Is it the one where some feel they have the god given right to buy 6 new class 99s for £50 every year (oh dear, they're now £150), or maybe 25 mk1s for £20 ? Where do you put them all. I think a lot of people must have a railway room the size of Pete Watermans, his is so big it must be an aircraft hanger ! (and very good luck to him too, and I'm not aiming sarcasm at him).

 

Maybe it's the hobby of buying every new model that comes out, which means pre-grouping, pre-nationalisation, BR steam era, BR green diesels era, BR blue era, BR sectorisation, and all the privatisation era models too ! Again, where do you put them all. How many model railways do you have, each of which covers a different area and at a different time. Your obviously far richer than me and must have a warehouse to accommodate them all.

 

One thing I do know, it won't be the death of being an ordinary railway modeller. Someone like me, that just has one railway room, and that builds one model railway to a theme, (one area at one particular time). In my case the Somerset & Dorset in Br 60s days, and I just buy stock suitable for that when and if it comes out, or sometimes a good 2nd hand model if I spot one and it 'fits'. So no pre-nationalisation, no ex-LNER, no Kings, no modern image of any sort, not even any of the crimson and cream coaches that have been announced. So just a couple of models a year, and it has to have appeared on the S&D in the 60s. That saves me a fortune.

 

Come on lads, get a grip ! Build a model railway instead of trying to spend all your money on buying more models than the next bloke and that you cant possibly run. Pick just one theme and stick to it, and sell what doesn't fit. Judging by the prices of what your all moaning about, you'll make enough to book a place on Richard Bransons Virgin Galactic Space Shuttle.

[Rob Rossington]

My problem with Bachmann's new prices is that in some cases you're paying for completely unnecessary features or additions.

 

For example the ready populated carriages, which push the price up to an eye watering £55 each. 

[bart2day]

Most sensible thing I've read here in a long while!

If things are too expensive do without. It is only a hobby after all. There are plenty of 'railway related' activities which can be pursued for free. In the meantime save up for what you really want, it will make it all the more worthwhile in the long run. Ultimately we should all just spend what we can justify on playing trains. For some (myself included at the moment) that means about one new loco a year! For others it might be one a week. It is all relative. But complaining isn't going to make any difference and you always play the long-game and wait to see whether a product is sold off at cheaper price when the initial froth has died down and it cannot be shifted.

 

This is an important point. All hobbies cost money and you spend what you can afford to spend. But for me it is quality over quantity. If you like a model enough you will be willing to pay for it. I only bought one model last year and that was the Bachmann S stock underground train. I thought it was very expensive at £280 but liked it enough to buy it and it gives me enjoyment every day I look at it. For me, I would much rather Bachmann produces a good range of models, including more modern image emus (the 319 is a nice addition, despite it only being available in n gauge). I would much rather they be bold and produce a well detailed, newly tooled model which may be niche, and charge a premium price, than for it not to be produced at all.

 

That being said, I can understand that for existing tooling the recent price rises are rather excessive. Why an extra £110 for the class 450 compared to the 350, when all we get is is basically the same model but with slightly altered tooling, a new running number and a new livery? Not that I am an expert but I cannot see how this can be justified.

 

On a different note I cannot understand why it takes years in some cases for a model to be released following its announcement. In my opinion, this is actually a disservice to customers by saying 'we are producing this model but it may be years before it is released', and meanwhile prices rise by x% meaning the actual price of the model turns out to be much more than it would have been if it had been released shortly after announcement. I would much rather they keep things under raps until the model is actually nearing completion. For me, the way the London Transport Museum handled the announcement of the S stock was refreshing, with only around 3 months to wait until release.

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

Is that confirmed somewhere? I must have missed it. I know the announcement said "GWR" green. Is this presuming it is distinct from "Great Western" green?

EDIT: Thanks - I now see this on the website.

 

The Collett goods does look good with the Churchward tender.

 

I'm also liking the S&DJR 7F.

 

Similarly to the 64xx, the new olive E4 is very much like last year's.

Looks like a Dean tender to me. Bachmann are doing a good job of prolonging the life of the Collet Goods by giving it new tenders tooled and paid for by other models. They will get another sale out of me for this.

[Combe Martin]

Looks like a Dean tender to me. Bachmann are doing a good job of prolonging the life of the Collet Goods by giving it new tenders tooled and paid for by other models. They will get another sale out of me for this.

Looks like a Dean tender to me too. As for the 7F in S&DJR livery, this a completely bogus model. The tender is wrong for this era, and no 89 only applied when it was a large boilered loco. It should be either of 9679 or 13809 in LMS livery. Bachmann havn't got the right tooling for a SDJR liveried 7F.

[Budgie]

My problem with Bachmann's new prices is that in some cases you're paying for completely unnecessary features or additions.

 

For example the ready populated carriages, which push the price up to an eye watering £55 each.

So don't buy them, then. Sooner or later they'll be issued without the passengers, but they'll probably keep the high prices.

[DropTheTap]

As usual at this time of the year, when Bachmann announce their new program and their prices, there are the claims that no-one will be able to afford them and that 'this will be the death of the hobby'

 

I'd like to know which hobby that is.

 

Is it the one where some feel they have the god given right to buy 6 new class 99s for £50 every year (oh dear, they're now £150), or maybe 25 mk1s for £20 ? Where do you put them all. I think a lot of people must have a railway room the size of Pete Watermans, his is so big it must be an aircraft hanger ! (and very good luck to him too, and I'm not aiming sarcasm at him).

 

Maybe it's the hobby of buying every new model that comes out, which means pre-grouping, pre-nationalisation, BR steam era, BR green diesels era, BR blue era, BR sectorisation, and all the privatisation era models too ! Again, where do you put them all. How many model railways do you have, each of which covers a different area and at a different time. Your obviously far richer than me and must have a warehouse to accommodate them all.

 

One thing I do know, it won't be the death of being an ordinary railway modeller. Someone like me, that just has one railway room, and that builds one model railway to a theme, (one area at one particular time). In my case the Somerset & Dorset in Br 60s days, and I just buy stock suitable for that when and if it comes out, or sometimes a good 2nd hand model if I spot one and it 'fits'. So no pre-nationalisation, no ex-LNER, no Kings, no modern image of any sort, not even any of the crimson and cream coaches that have been announced. So just a couple of models a year, and it has to have appeared on the S&D in the 60s. That saves me a fortune.

 

Come on lads, get a grip ! Build a model railway instead of trying to spend all your money on buying more models than the next bloke and that you cant possibly run. Pick just one theme and stick to it, and sell what doesn't fit. Judging by the prices of what your all moaning about, you'll make enough to book a place on Richard Bransons Virgin Galactic Space Shuttle.

 

You swung and missed a little here. The middle ground is that plenty of us are having a hard time justifying (never mind purchasing) one, let alone a fleet.

[farren]

I've wonder, I understand part of the price problem is the lack of unit sales. And one way is to keep upping the price to increase profits for the manufacturer. But seems to have the side effect of further reducing units sold a catch 22 situation. What would happen if Bachmann up'd the amount they made. At the same time keeping the same loco identity for a few years reducing costs more. This would help to keep costs down. But would the people not happy with the consent price increases be happy with. You can always renumber yourself. I would be happy with this but would others?

 

The one reason I ask is keeping prices down may help kids and their parents to start in this hobby which is only good for the future.

 

I will now retire behind the sofa and await the flack.

[Legend]

No need to retire behind sofa Farren, ideas to reduce costs should always be welcome.

 

I think you would find that there would be a considerable cash flow problem if you make a large batch of locos to last three years. This also involves holding stock, so I don't think any co would go for this. On the other hand there's usually efficiencies in making larger batches as you only have one set of set ups whether you are running 1000,5000 or 10000. But overall tying up your cash in the form of stock you may or may not sell in a few years is probably not sustainable.

[Removed a/c]

All well and fine but I thought the price increase was due to labour increases?

 

I think what could help was to just make the loco and apply numbers for the customer to affix.

 

 

 

 

 

or I wonder if a pick a chassis then pick a body shell approach would work ?  

[Jenny Emily]

To get back on topic, I'm half surprised that 03179 hasn't seen a rerelease in NSE toothpaste livery, possibly weathered to make it different from the long sold out Modolzone version. Apart from the WAGN liveried version of the same loco done for the Collectors' club, the cut down cab version hasn't seen any other releases. Is it 03079 that could also be released with that version of the cab from the island line? Also were the cut down cab versions in use in South Wales at one time a similar design?

[Revolution Mike]

I think what could help was to just make the loco and apply numbers for the customer to affix.

 

I don't see how that helps as you still have to print other parts of the livery eg all the warning flashes, TOPS panels etc etc doing the numbers at the same time makes no difference (or saving if you don't!).

 

Cheers, Mike

[Jenny Emily]

All the livery and numbering will be tampo printed by a machine anyway, so I doubt that's where a lot of the labour comes. It's the actual assembly of the model that takes the time (and bumps up the cost).

[JSpencer]

To get back on topic, I'm half surprised that 03179 hasn't seen a rerelease in NSE toothpaste livery, possibly weathered to make it different from the long sold out Modolzone version. Apart from the WAGN liveried version of the same loco done for the Collectors' club, the cut down cab version hasn't seen any other releases. Is it 03079 that could also be released with that version of the cab from the island line? Also were the cut down cab versions in use in South Wales at one time a similar design?

With that nice DCC sound unit. The only thing is, the Modelzone had an exclusive cab moulding. Even though they have gone, there may be some legal constraints. But certainly agree they have not done another.

[Jenny Emily]

With that nice DCC sound unit. The only thing is, the Modelzone had an exclusive cab moulding. Even though they have gone, there may be some legal constraints. But certainly agree they have not done another.

I don't think it was an exclusive moulding per se, as the Collectors' club model of the same loco in later privatisation livery turned up the same year. More likely the lack of prototypes to use that moulding makes it too unusual to release much (how popular would 03079 really be in rail blue?)

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi All,

 

Its funny how this topic about Bachmann products has gone through the ins and outs of running a business, the right to exploit other countries cheap labour so we can enjoy cheap products and even blaming poor old Gordon brown for the prices of model trains today. My pay has not drastically increased and other things take my time and money these days but that won't stop me buying. I like the quality and reliability of Bachmann products and I don't mind paying for this. I have thought carefully about which products I want this year and can easily spend over £1k on my hobby but I save for this. Through careful planning and saving I will make around £250 from my banks and this is not from vast savings it's just about making money work hard taking advantage of various offers and I can put this money to my hobby.

 

I have gulped at some prices - when I bought my Thumper from Kernow at £210 given the increases, but this model is superb, a small retailer put there money up to make this happen and we have a fantastic model to enjoy as a result. The LTM class 66 price shocked me but the print quality on the tube map livery looks stunning so yes its worth paying for a quality product. Buy what you really want or need and start saving for when it comes out. Above all enjoy modelling and the hobby in general.

 

Thanks

Mark

[grahame]

The middle ground is that plenty of us are having a hard time justifying (never mind purchasing) one, let alone a fleet.

 

I do feel for people in this position but how did you ever get started in the hobby?

 

If you could afford one at half price before the price increases then is it not possible to save for twice as long now to purchase one of what you want? Otherwise, perhaps, the hobby might not be suitable for you. For example as much as I'd like learn to fly a plane I realise I can't realy afford it (both in time and money) and therefore I don't indulge.

 

G.

[dibber25]

All the livery and numbering will be tampo printed by a machine anyway, so I doubt that's where a lot of the labour comes. It's the actual assembly of the model that takes the time (and bumps up the cost).

Tampo printing is very labour-intensive. These are simple hand-operated machines printing one part at a time. For each printing process the component has to be 'loaded' individually and the machine operated - usually by pressing a foot pedal. There may be as many as 10 different colours to be printed, so on 5,000 parts that's 50,000 'loadings' - puttting the part in and 50,000 more taking it out. A run of 5,000 models may involve printing several different parts, each one another 50,000 hand operations. That costs - even before someone scratches a percentage of those parts during assembly, and they go to waste. (CJL)

[Removed a/c]

Surely it has to be cheaper as you are not setting up the machine fresh each time, if you ran the machine with all the generic printing then just added decals / transfers for the individual locos. It works like that in printed materials, clothing etc...

 

 

They may well sell more as people build up fleets they need different numbers. I would be willing to add numbers to a blank loco but not remove, repaint and renumber an existing loco.  

[Combe Martin]

I would be willing to add numbers to a blank loco but not remove, repaint and renumber an existing loco.

It's the easiest job in modelling to remove a number from a loco. There's much more skill needed and work involved in adding a new number transfer to a loco. It can be quite hard to get it central, level and at the correct height, especially if you have to use individual digits. You also need to overspray it with varnish to protect it.

[Ozexpatriate]

Tampo printing is very labour-intensive. These are simple hand-operated machines printing one part at a time. For each printing process the component has to be 'loaded' individually and the machine operated - usually by pressing a foot pedal.

Chris that's certainly true for the machine we saw in the video for the Kernow/DJM O2. Other machines may have more automation. I remember a video somewhere of Hornby coaches in the old Sanda Kan factory in 'the good old days'. (I'm imagining Maunsell coaches. I can't find it now. If I recall correctly, it had considerably more automation.)

[pom-pom]

D11 in GCR green... nice to see some more widely available pre-grouping liveries.  However, I already have two like that (Bachmann's own Butler Henderson, and Gerard Powys Dewhurst converted from the GBL knock-off of same).  The J11 or O4 in GC livery would have had me very excited (if kicking myself for buying the limited edition J11 in GC livery off of Ebay a few months ago).  I've use for more freight engines; I've a surfeit of express passenger types.  So even though it's my thing down to a T, I doubt I'll be buying it.     

 

Welcome as they are, I am wondering why Bachmann go to the effort of pre-grouping liveries if they're not going to do matching rolling stock in a timely manner.  I note the Birdcage carriages (announced, so it seems, at the same time as Noah was warned of the flood) are still only at Drawing Office stage. 

 

Anyway; to stop my whinging. 

 

A D11 in GCR green - fantastic but... why oh why do GCR-liveried models of the D11 and indeed the real sole preserved survivor have to suffer the constant application of the wrong "Great Central" tender lettering over and over again..?! I blame the NRM for this fiasco.... just stop it, please!

 

It wouldn't be anywhere as bad if the correct lettering was available as transfers somewhere.

[Hilux5972]

What's wrong with the lettering?

[Moxy]

A D11 in GCR green - fantastic but... why oh why do GCR-liveried models of the D11 and indeed the real sole preserved survivor have to suffer the constant application of the wrong "Great Central" tender lettering over and over again..?! I blame the NRM for this fiasco.... just stop it, please!

 

It wouldn't be anywhere as bad if the correct lettering was available as transfers somewhere.

 

I too didn't think there was anything wrong with the NRM version (not that I know that much about the Great Central), the NRM are usually pretty good at correct recreation of historical liveries.

 

These people http://www.steamandthings.com/page37j.htm do Great Central transfers, but be aware the page is dated 2009, so the price may be wrong, or they may no longer be available, but it's worth asking them.

 

If you have access to the artwork for the lettering that you require, you could try Precision Labels http://www.precisionlabels.com/ who will produce bespoke transfers.  I have no personal experience of them, but someone over on NGRM Online forum has recently had some transfers produced for 'Tal-y-llyn' to modify the Bachmann USA 'Skarloey,' and the cost was I believe very reasonable.

 

HTH

 

Moxy

[Moxy]

To get back on topic, I'm half surprised that 03179 hasn't seen a rerelease in NSE toothpaste livery, possibly weathered to make it different from the long sold out Modolzone version. Apart from the WAGN liveried version of the same loco done for the Collectors' club, the cut down cab version hasn't seen any other releases. Is it 03079 that could also be released with that version of the cab from the island line? Also were the cut down cab versions in use in South Wales at one time a similar design?

 

Those would be the Burry Port & Gwendraeth Valley locos, but if the Bachmann cut down cab is correct for the Isle of Wight version, then I think it's too low for the BPGV version.

 

03145 - BPGV loco

http://www.railphotoarchive.org/UIH/uih_v32.php?icb=0999000016000|f||wm_999|6|||j|3|

 

and 03179 from a similar angle

http://petertandy.co.uk/iow/03179_rsj_11889.jpg

 

The Isle of Wight locos 03079 & 03179 have bigger side windows & a lower roof arc.

 

Incidentally, does anybody know by how much the IOW locos were cut down?  The BPGV versions lost 4 1/2 inches off their cab height, but I can't find any details of the IOW modifications.

 

HTH

 

Moxy