Invisible Indicators

[Titan]

Little bit of a rant...

 

Car indicators are getting increasingly difficult to see. Normally I am fairly observant and even with the ones near, or even in headlights I can usually make them out, albeit with somewhat more difficulty than I would like. But this car really takes the biscuit:

 

 

Not only is the indicator tiny, it is in the '>' of the daylight running lights, which are many times more powerful than the indicator, far more so than the above photo suggests, and almost totally obliterate it. There have been many times now where I started to curse a driver of one of these for not signalling. Imagine the car above is on a roundabout and signalling left to exit, you just simply cannot make out the tiny orange flash hidden by all that bright white. Sometimes I do manage to see the final flash if it comes around the roundabout far enough before exiting, and realise the driver was signalling all along.

 

Sooner or later some poor sod will have an accident due to this, and it will be attributed to the drivers poor observation rather than poor design.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Please raise this with your MP, as I have with mine. Function is being overwhelmed by 'styling'.

 

My concern is principally for pedestrians, when crossing at a side road junction. While motorists will by and large have good vision, this isn't the case for all pedestrians and clear signals (and drivers who actually remember to use them, bearing in mind that signalling does not become optional just because there are no other moving vehicles in view) showing the driver's intention are rather important to people with vision impairment.

[Kenton]

The way some folk drive I don't think they even know what an indicator is, let alone when it should be used. So they may well ask what does it matter?

As for those who indicate to turn left and then turn right!

 

The rear indicators are far more important than the front ones, after all how else can I thank you for letting me pull out in front of you.

 

Manoeuvre, Signal to indicate your thanks, the use the mirror to check that the following driver is still awake.

 

Qashqai - what a daft name - shouldn't it be spelt QuashQuai and pronounced Crash Car?

[30801]

Not only is the indicator tiny, it is in the '>' of the daylight running lights, which are many times more powerful than the indicator, far more so than the above photo suggests, and almost totally obliterate it.

All the ones I've seen like that dim the DRL next to the active indicator making it more obvious.

[bertiedog]

I think this is covered by existing regulations, and may have been overlooked by the designers. Headlights must not obscure the indicator light visibility. Trouble is the regs in the UK are flouted by designers making for an international market, where standards are different. I know with kit cars etc and specials that the indicators must be away from the main lamps, no distance is specified, it is a judgement from the vehicle examiner, but they usually refer to the kit cars makers design manual.

 

Just because it comes from a major maker does not mean it always complies 100% with regs here in the UK. There are loopholes within loop holes in car designs. LED lights came on to the market before legislation, the makers using EU rules that allowed approval before the UK versions were produced.

 

Stephen

[RedgateModels]

You'll like what I've done then Titan,

 

what used to be just plain orange side reflectors are now fully functioning indicators, so I have three on each side, the ones in the headlight, side markers and the conventional ones near the doors 😉

 

[BG John]

LED torches come with a warning not to shine them directly at anyone. So how come it's OK for vast numbers of blinding white LEDs to be pointed straight at anyone facing an approaching car?

[MJI]

Where do I start?

 

The Kumquat is a strange named car, someone took the BBC to court because Clarkson called them Kumquats

 

I object to LED dazzling lights taking out my low light vision at dusk, I can show my objection if required with a light bar!

 

I object to rear light flickering so much that you cannot attach the light to the car. (Peugeots are terrible for this)

 

I am fed up of fog lights going on and off as cars go around roundabouts.

 

I am fed up with styling hiding rear indicators. VW I think do this.

 

Peugeot tin roof convertables should be banned due to their rear lights

 

I think I will need sunglasses soon just for normal driving.

[Titan]

All the ones I've seen like that dim the DRL next to the active indicator making it more obvious.

 

I have seen some that do, unfortunately this particular car does not.

[Kenton]

 

I think I will need sunglasses soon just for normal driving.

 

Already have special tints for night driving which I do quite a bit of. They do give some colours a rather odd appearance but knock back even full beam lights to manageable glow. Great for eliminating glare and that refraction of light during wet weather.

[Mark Saunders]

Why worry about "indicators" the number of people that drive and never/hardly use them!

 

Mark Saunders

[Moxy]

All vehicles built after 1st April 1986 have to have side repeaters fitted, 'The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989' if anyone wishes to look it up.

 

Whilst I will agree with the OP about car styling generally seemingly taking precedence over common sense and visibility, are the side repeaters not part of the side mirrors on a Nissan Cashcow?  I don't know because I try not to get too close to Nissans, but if so and those repeaters are not working then any incident as a result of those non working repeaters blame would surely fall on the driver of the Nissan for driving with defective lights?

 

Moxy

[admiles]

I have seen some that do, unfortunately this particular car does not.

All three of our company QuashQuai do....all the same model year and spec as the one pictured too!

 

And yes, they're fully compliant with current EU regs.

[BG John]

All vehicles built after 1st April 1986 have to have side repeaters fitted, 'The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989' if anyone wishes to look it up.

 

Whilst I will agree with the OP about car styling generally seemingly taking precedence over common sense and visibility, are the side repeaters not part of the side mirrors on a Nissan Cashcow?  I don't know because I try not to get too close to Nissans, but if so and those repeaters are not working then any incident as a result of those non working repeaters blame would surely fall on the driver of the Nissan for driving with defective lights?

 

Moxy

I find my eyes get drawn to the bright lights, so I may well miss seeing the side indicators.

[Ian Abel]

Why worry about "indicators" the number of people that drive and never/hardly use them!

 

Mark Saunders

Really Mark!

 

Over here in the jolly old US I thought it was simply that the Chelsea tractor/BMW crowd had simply decided not to purchase what appear/MUST be the "optional" indicators package.    

 

They all went for the FOG LIGHTS WITH NO OFF SWITCH package though it seems...

[Arthur]

 

I was following a car a week or so back on a rural road in North Wales. It's brake lights came on, no indicators and it slowed to a halt against the centre line.

 

As I approached I'm thinking, 'why is he slowing down? is he turning right? no indicators!? As I drew to a halt a little way behind him it was clear he was about to turn into a farm track.

 

As soon as he released his brakes and the brake light went out a feeble indicator, in the middle of the brake light, became visible.

 

I don't recall the type of car but it was a striking example of poor lighting design.

[Titan]

All vehicles built after 1st April 1986 have to have side repeaters fitted, 'The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989' if anyone wishes to look it up.

 

Whilst I will agree with the OP about car styling generally seemingly taking precedence over common sense and visibility, are the side repeaters not part of the side mirrors on a Nissan Cashcow?  I don't know because I try not to get too close to Nissans, but if so and those repeaters are not working then any incident as a result of those non working repeaters blame would surely fall on the driver of the Nissan for driving with defective lights?

 

Moxy

 

You can't see the left hand side repeaters when viewing the car from the right,no matter how good they are if as for example when they are indicating to come off a roundabout as discussed in the OP.

[Horsetan]

...Qashqai - what a daft name - shouldn't it be spelt QuashQuai and pronounced Crash Car?

If you pronounce it in a Northern Irish accent, it sounds like "cash cow", which is ironic 'cos its popularity means it's a nice little earner for Nissan.

[Kickstart]

Hi

 

I must be getting old, as modern car lights annoy me.

 

If the maker feels the need to dim the driving light so the indicator can be seen then maybe they could realise that the driving light was too bright in the first place.

 

Fog lights randomly going on and off as cars go round corners seems to offer no benefit except when it is really foggy with visibility of a few feet, in which case the fog lights will be on anyway.

 

Rear lights with a bright brake light around an indicator makes them pretty much useless. Far too little colour differentiation with LED lights.

 

Flickering lights are a pain. Local buses have rear lights with a small LED in each corner, and glancing past them leaves a line of red dots in my vision as it flickers.

 

Some HID lights are bad. Porsche Boxsters for example seem to be particularly bad at directly a very bright kicked up beam to the left, so when they overtake you on the motorway your side mirror dazzles you.

 

I tend to find LED light massively dazzling for the pathetic amount of actual illumination they manage. Not sure why.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Butler Henderson]

Should not all BMWs be impounded as they do not seem to have working indicators

[TheSignalEngineer]

Back in the days when Adam was a lad, the council in Birmingham advised using dipped headlights instead of just side lights when driving at night. This was not so the driver could see, on roads with street lights car headlights are not really needed for driving but to be seen from a distance by others, particularly perestrians crossing te road. After a number of accidents which were attributed to drivers being dazzled by oncoming headlights the advice was tempered to using dipped headlights except on well lit streets. WhyTF do we need all these lights on during the day?

[Kenton]

 

WhyTF do we need all these lights on during the day?

 

Something to do with the EU, perhaps?

[Horsetan]

....WhyTF do we need all these lights on during the day?

Dunno. I thought we were all being exhorted to *save* energy by turning lights off.

 

Sometimes the street lighting and dazzling light from badly adjusted headlights is so bright, it's technically possible to drive with only your marker lights on.....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Flickering lights are a pain. Local buses have rear lights with a small LED in each corner, and glancing past them leaves a line of red dots in my vision as it flickers...

 An increasing problem for me, not just on vehicles but also with pedestrian controlled crossings. The red pedestrian 'do not cross' indicator lights flicker in my peripheral vision as one drives past on many of the local installations. It's not a helpful effect, especially as red flashing rear light is 'standard' on bicycles now, and all our local cyclists use pavements, verges and roads at will to provide the most direct route, so a red flashing light can and does appear from anywhere on any trajectory.

 

I am still in correspondence with County highways on this one, whose fixed opinion appears to be that the LED's employed 'do not flicker appreciably'.

[Kickstart]

Hi

 

Yes the red warning light on pedestrian crossing do flicker really badly. Think the flicker is deliberate to increase the life of the led as they land up only being on half the time. But the seem to use a far brighter led to average the light out.

 

All the best

 

Katy