Mashima to close down

[Petri Sallinen]

The 3 pole Mitsumis may be fine for DCC but what about those of us who run DC plus like the convenience of using Highlevel gear boxes with easy fixings etc. I guess its a case of wait and see what alternatives crop up from the gearbox suppliers

 

I am not using DCC. I am running my locomotives using AMR Compspeed, Ken Troller and PicTroller. I have also UK made gearboxes in my locos or I have made them myself using Romford gears and worms made by Markits or Ultra Scale. Finnish locomotive kits are technically almost same as UK ones. I have several kinds of motors in my locos: Mashimas, Canons, NWSLs, small Japanese narrow gauge motors, coreless etc. During last year I have tested several Mitsumis and so have made some of my friends. They are almost as well as Mashimas and they work well with pulse control —  very good price-quality ratio, please buy some and make tests. Unfortunately they do not have many different sizes of bodies like Mashima has. But like I said earlier coreless Maxons are my favourites.

 

Petri

Edited December 16, 2016 by Petri Sallinen

[Horsetan]

I agree. But in the other hand "DCC beliervers" in our club used to say that DCC system makes the same.

 

Yes, but not everyone likes (or can afford) DCC. There is a world outside DCC.

[Petri Sallinen]

Yes, but not everyone likes (or can afford) DCC. There is a world outside DCC.

 

Yes — I know that. I am living in this world outside DCC. In Finland about half of enthusiasts are using DCC and the rest are living outside this world (mainly finescalers).

Edited December 16, 2016 by Petri Sallinen

[Budgie]

During last year I have tested several Mitsumis and so have made some of my friends. They are almost as well as Mashimas and they work well with pulse control —  very good price-quality ratio, please buy some and make tests. Unfortunately they do not have many different sizes of bodies like Mashima has. But like I said earlier coreless Maxons are my favourites.

 

Petri

Would you like to list the ones you like, to give us a head start on deciding which ones to go for?

[Izzy]

Although I believe Mitsumi are a Japanese Co and produce a range of different size/type motors those currently being considered and easily available cheaply from several sources ( CCT transfers, ebay etc) are just one size/type, which I am given to understand were made for electrical goods - VCR's or copiers I think - and are now surplus to requirements.

 

Here is one alongside a old version Mashima 1428, which was replaced in a P4 chassis I am building by one. It is about 22 (over bearings)x15x12mm with the shafts extending roughly 12mm each end - a bit more the brush tag end.

 

 

 

 

As you can see from the second shot the armature is a simple 3 pole and smaller than the longer 5 pole Mashima. Not surprising given the shorter body size.

 

However, it is very well made, the brush holder/sprung brushes/end cap being nice, simple, and robust, and It runs very well on the simplest DC controller. It seems to run just as well/better than the Mashima, appears to use less current, and seems quite powerful enough for most needs.

 

 

 

Here are two shots of one in the chassis, a very old Whitbourne models etched one for the Mainline/Bachmann 43xx I found in the loft and thought I'd make up for something different for a change (I have never modelled the GWR but seemed to have all the neccesary bits including a complete original Mainline BR version 43xx!).

 

 

 

As the Mashima 1428 didn't really run as well as expected when mated to some old Romford 60-1 gears in the original etched foldup gearbox provided a High Level Roadrunner + 60-1 was obtained to which a Mitsumi has now been mated. This wasn't terribly easy because the screw positions are the reverse of Mashimas - 30 degrees before 12 noon and 6pm, so new holes need making in the High level etch.

 

Running on plain DC the performance is all that could be expected, smooth, controllable, and very quiet just using a cheap and cheerful Bachmann trainset DC controller. I have tried a Digitrax DZ125z chip with it, which was okay, but I intend to test a range of decoders ( using a 6-pin wiring harness) from a cheap Bachmann/Soundtraxx up to Lenz/Zimo/CT to see what kind of performance results.

 

Izzy

 

[stewartingram]

Do we know the rpm of these motors? Would be useful in calculating what gears to use.

 

Stewart

[brigo]

Do we know the rpm of these motors? Would be useful in calculating what gears to use.

 

Stewart

 

http://www.mitsumi.co.jp/latest/Catalog/pdf/motorav_m15n_3_e.pdf

 

Readily available on Ebay from £1.99 for 5 including P&P. They generally come with a wormgear on one end and the shaft length varies slightly. The brush end has 13 mm of shaft and the worm end is 13.5 mm for a single start worm and 12 mm with a double start worm.

 

Brian

[hayfield]

Any thoughts of either of these please

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-Five-Pole-Rotor-Compensates-Carbon-Brush-High-Speed-Micro-DC-Motor-Toy-DIY/262361938230?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38661%26meid%3D3fe0d9d9e2484f9793a7ef4f517b4c2e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D252659374392

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC12-24V-Five-Pole-Rotor-Compensates-Carbon-Brush-High-Speed-Micro-Motor-Toy-DIY/252376655738?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38661%26meid%3Dc8047a944b59417694c31b8b9a6169c3%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D262361938230

[Grovenor]

First one, small, higher revs than ideal for us, rather short shafts, oK if drive through a cardan shaft.

Second one, bigger slower, looks good.

All depends what you want them for, at the price its no big deal if they turn out to be unsuitable.

(It cost me more than that just for postage on a Christmas Card!)

Regards

Edited December 17, 2016 by Grovenor

[alfsboy]

First one, small, higher revs than ideal for us, rather short shafts, oK if drive through a cardan shaft.

Second one, bigger slower, looks good.

All depends what you want them for, at the price its no big deal if they turn out to be unsuitable.

(It cost me more than that just for postage on a Christmas Card!)

Regards

The big one is fine .I use it with an exactoscale sleeve on NWSL gearboxes in US brass  either with a silicon tube or mounted straight to the gearbox .I think Hornby use the larger one  though maybe with different shaft lengths so do some continental models .My other motor of choice is the Mabuchi 050 type  can type .its as good as any Mashima I have used  and NWSL use them relabled.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121766462998?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Budgie]

My other motor of choice is the Mabuchi 050 type  can type .its as good as any Mashima I have used  and NWSL use them relabled.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121766462998?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

What's the size and pitch of the fixing holes?

[alfsboy]

What's the size and pitch of the fixing holes?

I suggest you buy one.All mine are in locos now so cannay help .I stick them in with silicon  .

 

Forgot to add .The little Mitsumi  is fitted into a Westside Hon3 C-16 and was fitted after I took out a new Mashima .The Mitsumi runs slightly sweeter of the two .

Edited December 17, 2016 by alfsboy

[Jol Wilkinson]

The main advantages of Mashima motors were their sizes and the "power curves" they had. You could usually find somethng which would fit your chosen prototype or kit.

 

The EMGS reviewed the commonly available model motors over the years, making comprehensive data available to their membership. Free running speed is less important than max. torque speed, while power (watts) is more relevant than current consumption - usually quoted free running - at max. recommended voltage.

 

While the Mitsumi motor referred to is a good 3 pole motor (I have two in my bits box to try), I have yet to be convinced they will be a match for the Mashimas. The gearbox suppliers, Branchlines, HL, LRM, Comet, Markits, etc. will -as far as I know - all have to redesign their etches, commission new tools, etc.

[PenrithBeacon]

That answers a question I was going too ask.

 

I suppose that the gearbox suppliers will decide between themselves which motor is the best for modellers and that motor will become the effective standard.

 

Regards

[bertiedog]

The other two shown earlier are both good, the open frame is not very powerful, but smooth, the bigger 5 pole can is very powerful, and the samples I bought have neodymium magnets. Both seem to come from China, Shanghai based companies. Supplies of the Mitsumi 3 pole are limited, they seem to be a huge clear out of an older model motor, said to have been made for eject mechanisms in VCR's.

The Chinese have improved in motors so much there will be no shortage, but remember that stepper motors and linear motors are reducing the demand for DC motors generally in consumer goods. If you find a motor you like, buy a batch and store away, the Mitsumi are cheaper than peanuts at the moment.

The only ones to be wary of are the Mabuchi cheapies from Hong Kong, the generic toy motors, generally made with garish plastic ends, and poorer finish. They are what they are,....cheap motors. There are hundreds of coreless types all destined for model drones, these are high revving motors and not really suitable for general model rail use, without a high ratio gearbox. However they are tiny and efficient, and may suit a specialist use in a rail model.

 

Stephen.

[davefrk]

I have a GW gear puller, but I can't work out how to apply it. I'd be grateful for a 'GW Gear Puller for Tiny Tots' explanation.

 

Regards

 

Hi David, the gear puller is just the small one made up from a piece of box section steel approx. 40x20mm with a screw through a threaded nut. I've seen one with two legs with toes on that would hardly grip a worm gear, it that the one you have?

 

Dave Franks.

[PenrithBeacon]

Hi David, the gear puller is just the small one made up from a piece of box section steel approx. 40x20mm with a screw through a threaded nut. I've seen one with two legs with toes on that would hardly grip a worm gear, it that the one you have?

 

Dave Franks.

Dave,

 

Thanks for the reply and apologies for the delayed response. I think it's the second one you mentioned, see the attached photo.

 

 

All the best

 

David

[Buhar]

That thar's a GW Wheel puller.  You might shift a worm with it if you were lucky and it wasn't a tight fit.  I don't know of a commercial gear puller, but something could be cobbled up on the same principle with steel U-angle, a tapped hole (or a fixed nut, maybe) and an opposing slot just over 2mm wide (or about 3.5mm if you wanted to remove gears from axles).

[brian777999]

Where do Bachmann and Hornby get their motors from ? I doubt that they make their own.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Where do Bachmann and Hornby get their motors from ? I doubt that they make their own.

The only way to find that out would be to ask them, but would they be willing to share that information?

 

It may be that they commission specific motors from an established manufacturer, rather than buying off the shelf.

[brian777999]

Is there any further news of Mashima closing down ? What is the current situation ?

[Jol Wilkinson]

As far as we know, production has ceased.. Stock of some sizes is exhausted but the others are still available from the importers/retailers. At least one "Small Supplier" is considering supplying only with the kits he manufactures, following a bout of online "panic buying" of motors.

[Spitfire2865]

So have we still not found a great alternative?

[cctransuk]

So have we still not found a great alternative?

 

See #81 and https://www.cctrans.org.uk/ .

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Jol Wilkinson]

So have we still not found a great alternative?

Depends on how hard you have been looking.

 

There is a Mitsumi 12v motor that has been been suggested as an alternative. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/94701-new-products-from-cambridge-custom-transfers/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1884439

 

Wizard Models (MSE, Comet, etc.) now list  a Canon 1620 motor.

 

However,  there doesn't yet appear to be a supplier for a range of sizes of 12 v motors such as we had been able to get from Mashima. Many of the motors available through ebay and the likes are lower voltage - usually 5 volts - and presumably produced for battery powered applications. Some have been produced for specific applications such as DVD drives. The 12v motors are often from other industrial applications such as automobile uses, etc. and may not totally suit our needs. There are very high quality 12v motors available from Faulhaber, etc. but at prices that few people would be willing to pay.

 

At least one former major importer of Mashima motors is looking into alternatives, but hasn't reported on progress as yet.