Oswestry in 4mm & 7mm.

[coachmann]

Thanks Philip for posting those three photos of Oswestry, as the top picture highlights the one thing I was unable to replicate on my mode; the curvature at the Whitchurch end of the platform. The great thing for me is this picture also shows the backscene and what appear to be 3-storey houses as well as plenty of useful detail. This was the busy end of the station. The bottom photo is looking in the same direction from the opposite platform and tells me that the Llanfyllin trains crossed over before leaving for their destination. It makes sense but I had no photos of this. The middle picture is looking at the Welshpool end of Oswestry where things were a lot quieter.

 

This is the first layout I have wired specifically for DCC-sound by making all the tracks permanently 'live' and a consequence was current going to the backs of frogs until I cut gaps in the rails. Wiring was completed mid-morning and was tested using the 57XX Pannier, a loco would stall on a gnat's testicle.  If this loco ran well then I knew I could move on to other things.

 

[Jintyman]

Hi Coachman,

 

Very well driven locomotive in that video. May I ask what sound project and decoder you are using? The sounds are very authentic, or at least they seem to be to my ears.

 

Coming along nicely too, I love your adaption of RTP buildings.

 

Jinty

[Focalplane]

Yes, the Manor sound is very good, presumably using authentic recordings? I find that with sound on it does make driving the locomotive more realistic and the use of momentum can create a very good coasting simulation - not that I can do much of that on 2.4 meters length in O Gauge.

 

The Ivatt 2MTs were also common on the Whitchurch line, IIRC. I don't remember any of their Standard counterparts (78xxx) working at Oswestry.

[KeithHC]

I liked the authentic road traffic sounds in the background........

 

Keith HC

[coachmann]

Sound in the 'Grange' is Digitrains Zemo ZS012, described in their leaflet as for the Hall and other GW 2-cylinder locos. I need to experiment more with bass-reflex speakers. 

 

 I liked the authentic road traffic sounds in the background........

 

I also have a helicopter haha..... The coaching stock is interesting too being a mix of GWR, LNWR and LMS period I and III...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_Ye7AaUUVQ&feature=youtu.be

[Focalplane]

Oops, I simply assumed it was a Manor, then I remembered your upgrading of route availability.  The frame should have given it away to anyone with an experienced eye.  I will go and stand in the the corner for 30 minutes.

 

My recently completed 4F has a Digitrains Zimo 645 with their authentic 4F sound.  Compared to their Jinty 3F recordings there are significant differences (as there should be) but both are very acceptable.  In my 4mm scale days I bought several Loksound decoders from Olivia's and some of the sounds are extremely generic (though they do admit to that).  But, anyway, how would you obtain authentic sounds of an LMS Compound?  I have removed the Loksound decoder from my Bachmann 4mm scale Compound and will try it in the 7mm scale version when it is built.  For my 14XX I have been recommended Southwest Digital and have started a dialog with them.  They recommend Loksound loaded with their GWR Group 1 sounds.

 

As to hearing examples of sounds, I agree that this is going to be hit and miss for some time to come.  I did post a question in the DCC forum some time ago and the only person to respond from the market place was John You Choos.

 

With respect to your progress, you are moving a long very fast.  I must be a snail when it comes to modelling!

[Stubby47]

From my limited knowledge of steam locos, I am led to understand that when starting off, most of the cylinder is filled with steam, to overcome the inertia.  However, once moving, and with more an more speed, the amount of steam to the cylinder is reduced to a small fraction, as the momentum only needs a little effort to be maintained.  This in turn gives rise to a different sound from a slow moving to fast moving loco, rather than the same sound speeded up.

 

Do the sound chips reflect this change of process with the amount of steam used ?

 

I ask because I heard a sound equipped Bittern at the weekend and was thoroughly un-impressed  (it reminded me of the old Hornby Flying Scotsman with real chuff-chuff sound).

 

Stu

[coachmann]

That is correct Stubby. The expansive properties of steam are used once the loco has overcome the initial inertia of getting its train on the move. Some of the newer sound decoders go some way to replicating the quieter exhaust as a loco gather speed. This may be built into the programme to react according to the use of the controller, or may be activated by an F-key. Some use a combination of both so a person feels they are in control of the model as if actually driving it. 

[Focalplane]

From my limited knowledge of steam locos, I am led to understand that when starting off, most of the cylinder is filled with steam, to overcome the inertia.  However, once moving, and with more an more speed, the amount of steam to the cylinder is reduced to a small fraction, as the momentum only needs a little effort to be maintained.  This in turn gives rise to a different sound from a slow moving to fast moving loco, rather than the same sound speeded up.

 

Do the sound chips reflect this change of process with the amount of steam used ?

 

I ask because I heard a sound equipped Bittern at the weekend and was thoroughly un-impressed  (it reminded me of the old Hornby Flying Scotsman with real chuff-chuff sound).

 

Stu

 

Stubby/Stu

 

I don't wish to muscle in here but what many sound chips include is an automatic opening of the cylinder cocks to simulate clearing the cylinders of non-compressible water that may have condensed inside while stationary.  Not clearing out this water could be catastrophic.  You will see many steam locos doing this in videos and the noise made outstrips the initial chuffing.  Once the cylinder cocks are closed then the main sound will be, most probably, hard steady chuffing as the locomotive accelerates.  That is assuming the driver is still accelerating at this point.  In a short yard or shed road environment this may not be the case.

 

What should happen is that, once a constant speed with respect to load and gradient is achieved, the engine will begin to coast.  I have found with DCC sound that this works best if a degree of momentum is applied via the controller.  Not all decoders respond in the same way, so momentum settings can vary a lot.  I have found that the Digitrains sound files coupled with Zimo decoders do a very good job but that is not to say they are better than other combinations.  As an example, and I can only do this on a rolling road, I can accelerate a loco up to high speed, set momentum to a high number (my setting would be more than 6 on a scale of 0 to 9) and then lower the throttle.  The chuffing will stop until the lower speed setting is reached, then the chuffing should restart.  With judicious adjustments on the throttle a loco can be "driven" past distant signals, etc. with surprising realism.

 

What the Bittern driver may have been doing was none of the above.  This explains the fun of DCC sound equipped locos as the simulation can be made very real.  I would admit to you that I would not be aware of much of this if it were not for a Fire and Drive experience on the Warwickshire and Gloucestershire Railway over ten years ago, a 60th birthday present from my good lady wife.

[Stubby47]

Larry / Paul,

Thanks for those replies, very helpful.  Bittern was just being allowed to coast around a circular layout, it wasn't being 'driven'. This is partly why I raised the question - the sound just seemed wrong.

[Edwardian]

Talk about progress, this topic's like watching time-lapse photography!

 

Look forward to more.

['CHARD]

In the words of a well known tune, this project seems to have hit me 'From Out Of Nowhere,' and I'm delighted it has, because it shows that dedication to a plan and programme of work will achieve results.  

 

In a week when I mentioned to a couple of people that due to other commitments, lack of time, space, various domestic conflicts and general malaise, I was seriously considering selling up all my stuff, your new venture, Mr Goddard, has begun to restore my faith.  Thanks for starting this topic, it serves as a fantastic 'show you how,' and is a real shot in the arm.

 

I shall be watching progress with impatience!  

 

Ian

[coachmann]

Kind words everybody and it is a pleasure to read I have done something to prevent Ian 'CHARD from selling up. I'll bet lots of us have been there at some time.

 

Work has stopped while awaiting the arrival of a replacement turnout from Trackshack, the attraction being that things get here faster from the Isle of Man than they do on mainland Britain! Once this has been laid and wired and painted, work can start on taking the track through the shed wall to complete the outdoor circuit that PGH and I erected recently.

 

EDIT :- Shucks, it didn't arrive so I'm in the garden ....z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z

[TheSignalEngineer]

In the words of a well known tune, this project seems to have hit me 'From Out Of Nowhere,' and I'm delighted it has, because it shows that dedication to a plan and programme of work will achieve results.

 

In a week when I mentioned to a couple of people that due to other commitments, lack of time, space, various domestic conflicts and general malaise, I was seriously considering selling up all my stuff, your new venture, Mr Goddard, has begun to restore my faith. Thanks for starting this topic, it serves as a fantastic 'show you how,' and is a real shot in the arm.

 

I shall be watching progress with impatience!

 

Ian

I think a lot of us have been to that point. After many years of collecting and building stock and messing with shunting planks I watched what Larry was up to last year and decided that if you planned it out then just set to for a few concentrated sessions what I wanted to do could be achieved. Track is all down now, five years of thinking was laid in three weeks. Now the garden is tidy for the summer, wiring is under way and sections being test run. It's fair to say that Larry's efforts on Ellesmere North gave me the kick I needed.

[coachmann]

 A very kind and generous friend presented me with a Hornby TTS King last week, and what a stunner it is too although I look forward to giving it a complete repaint in BR green. I think it could attend an exhibition if it was dragged or ran slowly under its own steam from Wolverhampton to Gobowen, then down the branch to Oswestry....

[Focalplane]

Although I am really an LMS (BR(M)) man, I probably spent more time being hauled behind Kings than any other express class steam locomotive.  For some reason, as a family living in North Warwickshire we always went up to London on the old GWR main line and most expresses were King hauled.  I have to admit that I think Castles were more aesthetically proportioned but the brute strength of a King up Hatton Bank would be hard to beat.  Which was their raison d'etre along with the Devon banks.  I am sure Kings could go as far as Shrewsbury, it's just that Wolverhampton was the standard locomotive changing location on down trains.  Although I took the Cambrian Coast Express a number of times from Birmingham Snow Hill to Portmadoc, I can't remember when and where the London locomotive was exchanged.  Shrewsbury would have been logical as the entire train reversed direction there, but there may have been logistical reasons for changing at both Wolverhampton and Shrewsbury.  The CCE was certainly a long train because it split into two at Dovey Junction and the Pwllheli part still had a dining car, etc. so a King would have been the preference, I would have thought.

 

Incidentally, some of the best timed runs over Central Wales (Welshpool to Dovey Junction) were with the CCE hauled by double headed 63XX moguls.  And if you happen to have two Manors, they were used to double head a Royal train to Pwllheli towards the end of steam on the Cambrian.

[coachmann]

I have managed to smash two RTP docks through accidently knocking them, so if anyone remembers the out-of-sight colliery at Ellesmere North,  I now have an out of sight cattle dock under the bridge and around the south curve at the Welshpool end. It was simply a case of adding a turnout and making a slight alteration of an existing siding and means I can now run full cattle trains and propel them under the bridge.  It is the third track from the left....

[Mrkirtley800]

Very nice bit of work there Larry. Like AndyP. you are leaving us all behind. I really liked the sound demos and wish I could fit sound into my small Midland locos, but I fear I don't have enough time left, especially with my joints getting ever crankier.

Derek

[Andrew P]

Very nice bit of work there Larry. Like AndyP. you are leaving us all behind. I really liked the sound demos and wish I could fit sound into my small Midland locos, but I fear I don't have enough time left, especially with my joints getting ever crankier.

Derek

Thanks Derek, Pencarne, as opposed to Pencarne Junction ( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101157-pencarne-rural-cornish-blt-from-page-54/page-117 )was inspired by Larry's change to Ellesmere North, now it almost complete I feel the need to get on with North Road. ( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/108172-north-road-s-djr-motive-power-depot-and-yard/page-11 ) or wait a couple of weeks and see how this develops  for more inspiration.

[Focalplane]

Larry, what really inspires me at this stage of your construction is not only the speed of progress but also those curves.  They all look, quite simply, like the real thing and give the illusion of a much longer layout.  I also like the little details, like the decaying timbers just above the shed girder, right where you would expect them to be.  And this is early days!

 

A question, as I am far from experienced in the scenic area, should one finish and paint an engine shed, say, in the condition it was built and commissioned, and then start to weather it?  This seems to me to be logical in much the same way as an ex-works locomotive is pristine for a few weeks and then accumulates oil, grease, dirt, etc.

[coachmann]

Very nice bit of work there Larry. Like AndyP. you are leaving us all behind. I really liked the sound demos and wish I could fit sound into my small Midland locos, but I fear I don't have enough time left, especially with my joints getting ever crankier.

Derek

Hi Derek,  We are both acutely aware of how time tricks all of us; Young one minute ~ old the next and where did the years go.  But looking forward still keeps me ticking and, as infuriating as sound is when things don't go to plan, I wouldn't waste time building a model of a railway if sound was the missing component. I'm sure my Greenfield layout would have been more satisfying with DCC sound especially if built on a steep incline. With many of your small Midland locos, you would be squeezed for space, but if they can do it in N gauge..........

 

Best,

Larry

[coachmann]

Larry, what really inspires me at this stage of your construction is not only the speed of progress but also those curves.  They all look, quite simply, like the real thing and give the illusion of a much longer layout.  I also like the little details, like the decaying timbers just above the shed girder, right where you would expect them to be.  And this is early days!

 

A question, as I am far from experienced in the scenic area, should one finish and paint an engine shed, say, in the condition it was built and commissioned, and then start to weather it?  This seems to me to be logical in much the same way as an ex-works locomotive is pristine for a few weeks and then accumulates oil, grease, dirt, etc.

Track is a priority with me and I am fortunate in having access to a box of wooden curved draughtsman's templates (courtesy PGH) that I use to form transition curves. Where a turnout is 5' radius, I make sure the curve continues at 5' for a short distance. I watch the leading wheels of bogie locos as I want them to glide through trackwork with no sudden left or right twitches. It isn't always possible with some turnouts but.....

 

I love ready-to-plonk buildings! So if they need weathering then its a lot easier for me than building from scratch. But I have painted plaster Townstreet buildings in the past and I generally painted them to look a at least 75 years old as I went along. Locomotives are different and I agree it is better to paint them ex-works and then add weathering. Even my plain black resprays start off gloss black. That said, I also make a point of buying RTR weathered locos, it being easier to tone excesses down on chassis than spray an ex works chassis with the attendant risk of paint affecting running.

[Focalplane]

Track is a priority with me and I am fortunate in having access to a box of wooden curved draughtsman's templates (courtesy PGH) that I use to form transition curves. Where a turnout is 5' radius, I make sure the curve continues at 5' for a short distance. I watch the leading wheels of bogie locos as I want them to glide through trackwork with no sudden left or right twitches. It isn't always possible with some turnouts but.....

 

During my early career I did a lot of hand contouring of maps, basically filling in the contours between data points.  These were mainly geological maps but the same theory applies to hills and valleys, etc.  These days everyone relies on computer mapping algorithms and in my view this detracts from a basic understanding of nature.  Transition curves are rarely introduced in computer mapping - they call it "smoothing" but also have fancier names as well.

 

What I learned over the years is that when you draw curves by hand you are using the combination of three radii - wrist to pencil, elbow to pencil and shoulder to pencil.  The combinations of these are infinitesimal and can be used to produce natural curves that still honour the data but "look right".  I feel sure that the mind is capable of creating hand drawn transition curves.  There is an upside to this - if the curves just don't look right it may be that one or more data points need to be checked.

 

What has all this to do with model railways?  Well, I am currently adding a curved ramp to my layout and doing it by eye, joining key points with hand drawn arcs.  We'll see how it turns out!

[coachmann]

It's time I was more outward looking.....

 

The garden board was completed today except for the covering of roofing felt. First runners to the shed are shown after cutting holes in the wall....

 

Spirit level in use throughout the work...........Near enough...!

 

Another coating of creosote left to soak into the wood. There is space for three 4mm tracks, not that there ever will be, but it is useful should the layout even be converted ot double track running.....

 

View from inside shed. A chair against the house wall will be ideally position for watching trains in the shade on hot days such as today. Works Manager looking on.....

[81C]

Looking good, just a tip from a professional smear the edge of that ply-board with some silicone, as water always has a habit of getting into board that's laid flat. 

 

BTW When are you knocking that lot down.