Kernow MRC announce 4-TC

[Roy Langridge]

Thanks SR Man

 

When I spoke to Kernow Models on Friday the gentleman quite clearly said a six function decoder and in the same breath said the Lenz 4 function one will work as well. So you can see how things can get very confusing if one takes one's eyes off the ball. Personally I'm a bit miffed that I have to put a really good and expensive decoder into a rake of 4 unpowered coaches to get the thing to do what it's supposed to do with its lights, adding expense to an already very expensive train! However, the unit is lovely and I do like night time running round my garden with lights on, so I suppose you get what you pay for!

 

Edit:- PS.... Lenz 10321 decoder now ordered!

But I would be miffed if I paid for a 4TC (as I have) and couldn’t control all the lights as I want just so a standard 4 function decoder could be used. Such is the problem of being a retailer / manufacturer.

 

Roy

[metadyneman]

But the only function a standard 4 function decoder wouldn't be able to do is turn the theatre route indicator light on/off at one end? If you look at the thumper, all the functions bar turning on/off the aforementioned light are possible. I just feel that having to purchase a decent loco decoder just to control lights in what is effectively an expensive ( but lovely) rake of coaches is a)extortion and b) could have been avoided.

[RFS]

But the only function a standard 4 function decoder wouldn't be able to do is turn the theatre route indicator light on/off at one end? If you look at the thumper, all the functions bar turning on/off the aforementioned light are possible. I just feel that having to purchase a decent loco decoder just to control lights in what is effectively an expensive ( but lovely) rake of coaches is a)extortion and b) could have been avoided.

 

The Lenz 21-pin Silver decoder has 5 functions and hence will control all the lights correctly.

 

On the thumper the interior lights and head code lights all work together. There's only a 2-pin connection between the coaches which is why this is so, because the head code lights are directional. If you want to turn off the interior lights whilst keeping the head codes lit there's a manual switch underneath the coaches which you need to use even on DCC.

 

But with the 4TC you have the ability not only to control the interior lights independently, but also turn off the head code lights in one direction only (eg for the end facing the 33) whilst keeping them directional - all with DCC functions. Plus with 4-pin connectors, all 4 coaches have full power pickup which means any problems in that regard are almost completely eliminated. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by RFS

[metadyneman]

We will have to agree to disagree here I think. My personal opinion is it's an overly expensive way of using (wasting) a fully functional locomotive decoder just to placate the minority who like to turn every individual light on and off in an already very expensive set of four coaches.

[royaloak]

Phones that receive text? And you can take them outdoors? Mine's still tethered to the wall! (CJL)

I bet you can always find it as well.

[Robin Brasher]

Back to topic. My 4TC arrived last week and the picture shows it at Corfe Viaduct hauled or propelled by a Heljan class 33. I have many memories of the prototype when I travelled from Waterloo to Bournemouth when I was a student at Bournemouth College of Technology. The Kernow model contains a leaflet about the prototype which formed part of a train that travelled the 108 miles in 100 minutes which is faster than the present day trains. The model coaches ran very freely.

 

In his review on page 101 of the October Model Rail Chris Leigh mentioned that "Internally, we're not quite at the stage of having printed antimacassars in First Class and mirrors on the bulkheads." We did reach that stage over 50 years ago when Peco produced cardboard interiors for the Kitmaster coaches. These had figures, luggage racks and carriage prints. Perhaps a manufacturer could produce some transfers for antimacassars, mirrors, luggage racks and carriage prints to super detail these coaches.

 

I remember that the Model Railway Constructor had an article in the late 1960s about how to convert some Mk1 coaches into a 4TC set but I cannot find it. I bought some MTK driving trailer ends but I never got round to doing the conversion. If I had done the result would have fallen a long way short of the Kernow set.

I had a look at some Ace and Darstaed 0 gauge coaches at the Central Southern Gauge 0 Group exhibition at Wimborne today. I noticed that these coaches had blue moquette seats and carriage prints and mirrors in the bulkheads. These ranges seem to be completely neglected in the model press but have some innovations that could be included in 00 gauge coaches.

[kintbury jon]

Glad I have read all this about the decoder issue. I was planning to use mine with a blanking plate but I don't want the lights to burst!

[metadyneman]

Glad I have read all this about the decoder issue. I was planning to use mine with a blanking plate but I don't want the lights to burst!

Indeed....It's why mine is currently running with a cheap old Laisdcc decoder in it so I can at least run it ECS without the lights on

[Roy Langridge]

We will have to agree to disagree here I think. My personal opinion is it's an overly expensive way of using (wasting) a fully functional locomotive decoder just to placate the minority who like to turn every individual light on and off in an already very expensive set of four coaches.

 

I guess we will. How terrible of us wanting to run trains with realistic lights...

 

I also note that those complaining about the price of the decoder seem to be in the minority. Bachmann's new 6-function decoder is hardly expensive.

​

Roy

Edited October 22, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[royaloak]

Wots a decoder? 

 

I take it the train will run okay with my R900 and R901 controllers? <#not being serious>

[metadyneman]

Sometimes it is better to agree to differ...it creates a focussed forum without resorting to a slanging match. Something which RMWeb seems to spawn C u m Laude

Edited October 22, 2017 by metadyneman

[Roy Langridge]

Sometimes it is better to agree to differ...it creates a focussed forum without resorting to a slanging match. Something which RMWeb seems to spawn C u m Laude

Hang on matey. I just stated that I would be miffed if on a near £300 unit I could not control the lights properly and you came with patronising clap trap about “placating the minority”. Now you have the nerve to talk about slanging matches? Go look in the mirror.

 

Roy

Edited October 22, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[metadyneman]

Ok....i'll be frank...(although Jules is my real name) I was not getting at you personally but as you came in with the patronising comment about how terrible etc, I felt duty bound to defend those who are not in the minority with smaller wallets about spending lots of money just to be able to turn on and off a headcode light. We have agreed to disagree and that is that.

I trust you have had a lovely day, I have been running my trains round the garden enjoying watching and running my 4-TC with my Heljan 33/1 (albeit temporarily without lights :-D ).

I maintain my point that RMweb forums are a bit like entering a fire pit of opposing opinions which never reach common ground and frequently reach fever pitch keyboard rants. My piece has been said and I now retire smartly as they used to say on the side of a Sandard Fireworks Rocket!

 

Have a good evening :-)

Edited October 22, 2017 by metadyneman

[SRman]

My blue/grey unit 404 arrived today. I have run out of suitable decoders (like the Lenz Silver), so stuck a Zimo MX634D in it as a temporary measure until I can either buy more Lenz decoders or swap one out from something else that doesn't specifically need one (my NSW interurban unit has one where any other 21-pin decoder with two or more functions would do the job). It means I can't operate the interior lights on 404 for the present.

I fitted Kadee #19 couplers to it, as per my previous unit, 416, then coupled it all up, with 416 leading 404 and D6520, and sent them all around at low speed at first, but worked up to full speed with no dramas or incidents. The inter unit coupling is a little close, with the gangways touching (which looks nice but may not go around anything tighter than my outer radius curves). I may try swapping the couplings to #20 to allow just a teensy bit more leeway.

I'll post a video clip at some point after I get the interior lights working on 404.

[metadyneman]

Kadee #20s do work better. I tried #19s on mine and it kept fouling the buffer beam. I coupled mine up to a Hornby NSE VEP the other day. Even though not strictly prototypical it did look rather good.

[RFS]

Kadee #20s do work better. I tried #19s on mine and it kept fouling the buffer beam. I coupled mine up to a Hornby NSE VEP the other day. Even though not strictly prototypical it did look rather good.

 

There used to be a late evening working from Waterloo soon after the Bournemouth scheme went live with a class 33 at the front + 1 or 2 TCs and then a 4VEP bringing up the rear all controlled from the 33  The train divided at Basingstoke with the 33+TCs going to Salisbury and the 4VEP to Eastleigh/Southampton.  So it's quite in order to couple them up provided you include a 33 - I suspect the Hornby 4VEP might struggle to haul the 4TC as well....

[metadyneman]

Actually my Hornby VEP had no trouble at all pulling the TC. There was no wheelslip at all. I did do a short video of it so I'll see if I can upload it later.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I had a look at some Ace and Darstaed 0 gauge coaches at the Central Southern Gauge 0 Group exhibition at Wimborne today. I noticed that these coaches had blue moquette seats and carriage prints and mirrors in the bulkheads. These ranges seem to be completely neglected in the model press but have some innovations that could be included in 00 gauge coaches.

 

Not quite true. The Darstaed Mk1s feature prominently in the RM report on Telford. I am sure that we will hear a lot more about Darstaed as the UK range increases.

 

These features could be included in 3.5mm/4mm models (and indeed are with some manufacturers) but is the extra cost justified when they can hardly be seen in normal operating/lighting conditions. 

[Butler Henderson]

Model Railways Direct have confirmed their entire stock of 36-557s are the new version.

 

https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Bachmann-36-557-EZ-Command-1-Amp-4-Function-21-Pin-DCC-Decoder-with-Back-EMF/

[Phil Mc]

I've just finished a couple of Heljan 33/1 models & by complete coincidence a 4TC turned up at my parents house this week

Although I have a feeling I might have to wait until Christmas before I actually see it !

On the 33's I noticed the tension locks are the cranked down style, so could anyone tell me if I fit the loco & stock with Kadee's whether they will be at the same height ? (I presume the 4TC's NEM pocket is at the correct height!)

 

Cheers,

Phil.

[SRman]

The Heljan locos tend to suffer from coupling droop, so my usual solution is to replace the cranked couplings with straight couplings. Normally this works for me if using Kadees as well, but one end only on my D6520 seems to have a little less slop than usual for Heljan. The simple expedient for that was to bend the plastic part of the Kadee downwards slightly to line up properly with the TC couplings.

[RFS]

As my 33/1 is more or less permanently coupled to the 4TC I've opted for Roco couplings instead.  To get the optimum distance apart I've used one normal Roco coupling and one of the slightly longer Hornby versions. With Kadees there's some slack which can mean the gap opening and closing a little as the train starts and stops, but the Roco ones are tightly coupled and hence there's no buffeting on starting and stopping. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by RFS

[Gwiwer]

there's no buffeting on starting and stopping.

 

As I recall there was often a decent thump as the loco powered up at the rear. Didn't happen with the loco leading so probably a feature of being notched up remotely from the leading cab. There was also sometimes a snatch as a pushed unit came to a halt.

 

Prototype for everything?

[SRman]

Well, I got cracking and fitted the Kadee #20 couplings to both units. I was also going to perform a decoder swap with another (completely different) unit that I had recorded on my spreadsheet as having a Lenz decoder, but only requiring two functions. However, on reading the decoder on that unit, it turned out to be manufacturer 48, i.e. Hornby, which means I have now located my second Sapphire decoder! The result of this was that the Zimo MX634D decoder had to remain in the TC for the time being, so I decided to have another go at programming a Zimo to work the lights properly in these TC units. 

I am extremely proud to announce I got it to work.

I started by programming a value of 3 into CV8, then 3 into CV 124 (actually already in there but I wanted to be sure). Then I moved to JMRI Decoder Pro to read the functions, and changed a few checkboxes. The screen shots below were actually a dummy run to duplicate the settings as I didn't take screen shots while I was actually doing the programming. The first shot is the "before" and the second is the "after" - the area with the orange highlight is the section I was playing with.





The upshot of all this is that both units now have operable interior lights. The following shots and video show the combined train in action, with blue unit 416 (with Lenz Silver 21 decoder) leading blue/grey unit 404 (with the Zimo decoder), propelled by Heljan 33/1 D6520 with legomanbiffo sound (ESU LokSound). The video also shows bif's drive lock feature in action; the speed is held while the engine has been ramped up to full thrash. The interior lights on the Lenz decoder work on F5, while the Zimo one works them on F3. I didn't want to tempt fate by fiddling further to try to get them on the same F keys!

Edited October 25, 2017 by SRman

[ColinK]

My 4TC arrived today, stunning model. Will look even better with some passengers in it.

As it will be semi-permanently coupled, initially to a 33, later to a 74, I'm wondering if I could use one of those fixed bar couplings in the NEM pockets?

 

It's too long to fit on my current 'temporary' layout; could I omit one coach and run it as a 3TC?

 

I'm hoping the model will be a great success and encourage someone to produce a TransPennine dmu.