More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

TBH when I first saw the still image of the video my mind turned to TtTE and I went looking for the "eyes" on the smoke box door! The whole thing looks far too crisp to be a 100+ yr old film however professional.

 

Sacrilege I know but it's what came to mind. Are we 100% sure that it's not a construction using modern technologies? 

Addition: I was looking at a reply. Going back to the original post, now I see its pedigree. Whoops! Sorry if any offense was caused.

 

These early films were shot using 89 mm (3.5") film which offers much better resolution than the later 35 mm film. There are a couple of contemporary bits of film on the BFI Free website (only accessible in the UK) for instance this also shot at Bushey the previous year, 1897:

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-railway-traffic-on-the-lnwr-1897-online

 

In this case the identity of the film maker is known - see the accompanying blurb.

 

I very much doubt that anyone attempting a modern fabrication would have chosen the combination of a Teutonic and a Euston-Watford suburban set, or allowed a goods train to get in the way!

Edited December 10, 2020 by Compound2632

[Penlan]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

........ There are a couple of contemporary bits of film on the BFI Free website (only accessible in the UK) for instance this also shot at Bushey the previous year, 1897:

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-railway-traffic-on-the-lnwr-1897-online.

Watching this again, notice how low the platform is.
If it hasn't been commented on before 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Penlan

[Compound2632]

Another bit of film from BFI free (so only available in the UK I'm afraid): newsreel of the aftermath of the Leighton Buzzard crash in March 1931. At about 20 s - 22 s, an ex-LNWR ballast wagon still with diamonds and the B D lettering of mine (Birmingham & Walsall Division of the Engineer's Department).

[Rowsley17D]

At the beginning of October I ordered two each of Midland Railway Loco Coal Wagons D204 and D607 from Mousa Models. They arrived today a nice Christmas present to myself. I set about a D607 first.

 

 

This is what is in the box

 

 

It quickly went together. The floor needed filing to fit as did the buffer housing tabs. My camera didn't do well with the translucent nature of the resin.

 

 

 

Paint shop is next.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Rowsley17D said:

At the beginning of October I ordered two each of Midland Railway Loco Coal Wagons D204 and D607 from Mousa Models. They arrived today a nice Christmas present to myself. I set about a D607 first.

 

Looking good. Both types after my period, more's the pity. But perhaps I should give @billbedford a nudge over the two NBR wagons I tried to order in the summer, for which he was awaiting some parts. I ought to actually finish the Kirtley brakes I had from him too!

Edited December 23, 2020 by Compound2632
sp

[billbedford]

OK, I've found your email*. You'll get your wagons in the New Year, cos I'm going to have a couple of weeks rest and re-invigorating myself.

 

*I didn't mark the email as a new order something that can't happen with the new website.  

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, billbedford said:

OK, I've found your email*. You'll get your wagons in the New Year, cos I'm going to have a couple of weeks rest and re-invigorating myself.

 

*I didn't mark the email as a new order something that can't happen with the new website.  

 

Many thanks and stay safe, Bill - no desperate hurry, I'm not short of half-built wagons...

 

I feel a New Year's resolution coming on!

[Annie]

 

Merry Christmas Stephen.

[Compound2632]

Midland Railway Study Centre Item 18368.

[Rowsley17D]

I manged to get the D607 painted and livery applied although it could do with the tare weight and the photo I have has Ns for non-common user. I cannot find any transfers with "LOCO COAL" all that I've looked at are just " LOCO". It would be nice to have a variety. I'm awaiting waisted bearings before I can build the 3 others.

 

 

 

[Rowsley17D]

Over the Christmas break I got the D204 Loco Coal Wagon curtesy of @billbedford at Mousa Models finished. I don't know if the Markits' wheels I am using have deep flanges but they were catching on the under-floor framing on one side. Parring with a scalpel sorted things out. No such problem with the D607 wagon though. The Loco Coal lettering is too small and should be about 2 planks high but I cannot find anybody who does the right size. I've put out a plea for spare decals from the Modelmaster sheet BR 203 on the wanted section in the hope they might fit the bill.

 

 

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Rowsley17D said:

Over the Christmas break I got the D204 Loco Coal Wagon curtesy of @billbedford at Mousa Models finished. 

 

Looking good - you've got me almost regretting it's out of period for me!

 

Have you got any Microsol? With transfers that run over several planks, like the LMS on this wagon, I like to get the transfer really well-bedded into the plank grooves - useful tools for this include the craft knife and the Mk 1 fingernail.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Compound2632

[Rowsley17D]

59 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Looking good - you've got me almost regretting it's out of period for me!

 

Have you got any Microsol? With transfers that run over several planks, like the LMS on this wagon, I like to get the transfer really well-bedded into the plank grooves - useful tools for this include the craft knife and the Mk 1 fingernail.

 

I have Microsol. I'll get it out this afternoon and get it done.

 

[Mikkel]

Have we seen this one before?

 

https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/wagons-with-coal-supplies-in-saint-pancras-station-london-news-photo/930007404?adppopup=true

 

Also this one, although it is a bit sad:

 

https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/an-engine-and-wrecked-wagons-after-a-mineral-train-crashed-news-photo/1200750923?adppopup=true

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Mikkel

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Have we seen this one before?

 

https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/wagons-with-coal-supplies-in-saint-pancras-station-london-news-photo/930007404?adppopup=true

 

Coal strike, 1912. The first national coalminers' strike, it ended after 37 days on 6 April with government intervention - the passing of the Coal Mines Act, which established a minimum wage. Unfortunately inflation during the Great War rendered it a dead letter, the fixed minimum wage of the Act having fallen behind the cost of living.

 

A shame the photo's not sharper - presumably this image is taken from the newspaper. Plenty of D299s of course. The Midland Coal Coke & Iron Co. we've met recently on the Midland main line at Wellingborough in 1894, courtesy of @Crimson Rambler. B W & Co - Barber, Walker & Co. owned collieries on the Derbys/Notts coalfield and in Yorkshire; a wago with the same lop-sided style of lettering as the one in the second row appears in a panoramic view of Buxton in Turton's Thirteenth, p. 150. Ripley Colliery was also in Derbyshire but as far as I can work out it was part of the Butterley Company; the Lightmoor Index has no entry for Ripley so this may be the first sighting; there's no entry in the Midland PO wagon registers up to 1902. From the index, Cornwall appears to be a London coal merchant. 

 

Perhaps the most interesting wagon there is Cwmteg - an anthracite colliery on the Brynamman branch of the Midland's Swansea Vale line; featured in Turton's Fourth, p. 180. That shows four Gloucester RC&W Co wagons, two from 1900/1 in black with red-shaded lettering and registered with the Midland and two in grey with black shaded lettering - looking like the St Pancras wagon - lettered for Noyadd Colliery, Garnant as well as Cwmteg Colliery - Garnant was on the Great Western so one (Sept 1902) is lettered for return there and registered with the GW, the other (July 1908) is return to Brynamman and registered with the Midland. So has this wagon arrived at St Pancras from Brynamman by the round-about Midland route via Hereford, Worcester, Birmingham, and Wigston, or from Garnant via the Great Western main line with exchange in London? My hunch is the former.

 

6 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Also this one, although it is a bit sad:

 

https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/an-engine-and-wrecked-wagons-after-a-mineral-train-crashed-news-photo/1200750923?adppopup=true

 

The Midland wagon is D302 or D663A - giving a good view of the interior ironwork; the substantial side knee and the slender washer-plate half way between the side knee and the end - not as wide as the corresponding plate on the outside. The bolts appear to be countersunk into the inside plate.

 

The Great Western wagon on the left, with self-contained buffers, is presumably an O11. The timber-framed one on the right looks like a hired wagon - the W is a bit skinny compared to that on the O11, probably done by the wagon firm from whom the wagon has been hired. The washer plate on the centre line of the door is rather characteristic of GN/GC/GW wagons.

 

The wagon bottom left is a LNWR D84 4-plank open (by their headstocks shall ye know them). However, the pattern of bolts on the corner plate is non-standard.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Compound2632

[PenrithBeacon]

7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 ...

https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/an-engine-and-wrecked-wagons-after-a-mineral-train-crashed-news-photo/1200750923?adppopup=true

Nice loco, pity there isn't a kit of one of those. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Nice loco, pity there isn't a kit of one of those. 

 

Typical. Distracted by the loco. Keep your eyes on the road wagons!

[Asterix2012]

3 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Nice loco, pity there isn't a kit of one of those. 

I think it’s a North Staffordshire Railway D class 0-6-0T in which case there is a kit by London Road models

 

https://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/locos-tenders-chassis/north-staffs-locos/

 

Third one down the page, pity there is no photo

[MR Chuffer]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Ripley Colliery was also in Derbyshire but as far as I can work out it was part of the Butterley Company

Correct, Ripley Nos 1 & 2 recorded in 1896 as household and manufacturing coal, 248 employees below ground, 51, surface, amongst many others Butterley owned in the area. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by MR Chuffer

[K14]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The timber-framed one on the right looks like a hired wagon - the W is a bit skinny compared to that on the O11, probably done by the wagon firm from whom the wagon has been hired.

 

It is a bit on the thin side, & the "G" is wrong too. The presence of an "&" and "S" however...

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, K14 said:

 

It is a bit on the thin side, & the "G" is wrong too. The presence of an "&" and "S" however...

 

Silly me. I see it now:

 

[Mikkel]

Thanks for all that detail info Stephen and others, it makes the photos come alive.

 

So assuming that the date is correct, you could model a train composed of a NSR loco and MR, C&SW, GWR and LNWR lettered wagons in 1925. 

 

With kilns as a backdrop too. This is the pottery where the accident occurred, taken 4 years later, on Britain from Above (log in to zoom in): https://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/epw028003

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Mikkel

[Jol Wilkinson]

13 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

I think it’s a North Staffordshire Railway D class 0-6-0T in which case there is a kit by London Road models

 

https://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/locos-tenders-chassis/north-staffs-locos/

 

Third one down the page, pity there is no photo

The LRM kit for the NSR Class D 0-6-0T loco has cab side sheets with a curved cut-out (like the Class B 2-4-0T shown on the LRM website). This is apparently a later modification to the class, so the loco in the photo could be a Class D. However, the photo was 1925, so would i expect the Class Ds to have been modified by then but could it be in more original condition, used for shunting on the private sidings in the Potteries.

 

NSR loco phots aren't that easy to find but there is a reasonable collection here;

 

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-LMS-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/LOCOMOTIVES-OF-THE-NORTH-STAFFORDSHIRE-RALWAY/i-v9M56cX

 

[Rail-Online]

On 31/12/2020 at 08:13, Mikkel said:

Have we seen this one before?

 

https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/wagons-with-coal-supplies-in-saint-pancras-station-london-news-photo/930007404?adppopup=true

 

 

 

Also looks like a Grasmoor wagon from Chesterfield with the writing on a slope further back in the yard.

 

Tony

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

So assuming that the date is correct, you could model a train composed of a NSR loco and MR, C&SW, GWR and LNWR lettered wagons in 1925. 

 

No great surprise. For one thing, the Knotty was late into the LMS fold - amalgamation not taking place until 1 July 1923 (along with the Caledonian). Perhaps the Knotty's greatest contribution to the LMS, at least as far as enthusiasts are concerned, were its chief draughtsman and works manager at Stoke, Tom Coleman and H.G. Ivatt.