More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[Compound2632]

Thanks for the tip about making the brake van a little less free-running, I've never thought of that.

 

Not my idea - and not yet tested in practice by me.

 

I'm not sure the springs would be that easy to replace - they are flatter than usual, as this van has 3'6" wheels.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Compound2632

[Miss Prism]

I used MJT inside-units on my MR D390: http://www.clag.org.uk/mr-brake.html

 

They certainly do make the vehicle less free-running, for the reasons you give. (And they are mostly hidden from view because of the footboards.)

 

On Bodmin, bits of foam bearing lightly on the axles of the brake vans provided the same function.

 

Non-free-running brakes are rather essential for AJ fans.

[Compound2632]

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Guy Rixon]

Shortish springs in shackles (as opposed to spring shoes or "J hangers") are hard to get. If you have details I could print some for you. Alternatively, it would be fairly easy to cut away the moulded axle-guards and replace them with metal ones, leaving the springs in place. That's what I usually do with Slaters' kits.

[Mikkel]

Nice card, Stephen. The LNWR seems to be increasingly taking over around here, I wonder what they're thinking at Derby!

 

Many christmas greetings to you also.

[Londontram]

Only as it should be Mike only as it should be. The LNWR were going places not just pushing coal wagons round Derbyshire

 

(Hat coat and runs for the hills)

[Compound2632]

Well, I'm not going to be provoked by a little West Coast partisanship from a Caley enthusiast! There are certainly Sou'-West enthusiasts around here but I'm looking for support from any North British types who have yet to raise their heads above the parapet - it was Midland money to the tune of 30% that built the Forth Bridge! The LNWR and the Midland had a lot in common - the only companies to own or jointly own lines in all four countries of the Union. They had very much the same geographical reach, both serving the principal industrial areas south of the border. Although passengers were the butter on the LNWR's bread for the Midland they were more the icing on the cake. That cake was coal and by no means just in Derbyshire! I'm not sure, though, that in its Edwardian hay-day the Midland's through carriage workings didn't reach a greater range of destinations than the LNWR's. Southampton, Bournemouth, Great Yarmouth, Fort William?

 

Mikkel, as a follower of the other of the pre-Grouping "big three", reflects the Midland's reach in having on Farthing an example of a Midland D299 open wagon but not a LNWR D4.

 

The truth is, Ratio have a lot to answer for.

[Compound2632]

... or perhaps I should have said, pre-Grouping "big four", as the North Eastern, like the Great Western, though not having the same national reach as the LNWR and Midland was certainly in the top rank in terms of mileage, tonnage, quantity of locomotives and rolling stock, and wealth. I'm sure I used to have a tabulation of these things for the main-line companies at Grouping.

[Buhar]

... or perhaps I should have said, pre-Grouping "big four", as the North Eastern, like the Great Western, though not having the same national reach as the LNWR and Midland was certainly in the top rank in terms of mileage, tonnage, quantity of locomotives and rolling stock, and wealth. I'm sure I used to have a tabulation of these things for the main-line companies at Grouping.

 

Hang on Stephen, don't go bringing facts into the discussion.  If we stick to prejudice, partisanship and devilment (yes Steve, that means you) we'll get on fine.  Is it true that if you have more than four D299s in a cut of wagons the Midland required you to double head? 

[mullie]

The Great Eastern had a surprisingly long reach for such a relatively small company as well.

 

Just thought I'd say.....................

 

Happy Christmas to all.

 

Martyn

[Compound2632]

Hang on Stephen, don't go bringing facts into the discussion.  If we stick to prejudice, partisanship and devilment (yes Steve, that means you) we'll get on fine.  Is it true that if you have more than four D299s in a cut of wagons the Midland required you to double head? 

 

"Two heads are better than one."

 

Not as if the Sou' West wasn't given to "coupling" - I think that's the term. Now don't get me going again on the North Western and double-heading...

Edited December 22, 2017 by Compound2632

[Lecorbusier]

Well, I'm not going to be provoked by a little West Coast partisanship from a Caley enthusiast! There are certainly Sou'-West enthusiasts around here but I'm looking for support from any North British types who have yet to raise their heads above the parapet - it was Midland money to the tune of 30% that built the Forth Bridge! The LNWR and the Midland had a lot in common - the only companies to own or jointly own lines in all four countries of the Union. They had very much the same geographical reach, both serving the principal industrial areas south of the border. Although passengers were the butter on the LNWR's bread for the Midland they were more the icing on the cake. That cake was coal and by no means just in Derbyshire! I'm not sure, though, that in its Edwardian hay-day the Midland's through carriage workings didn't reach a greater range of destinations than the LNWR's. Southampton, Bournemouth, Great Yarmouth, Fort William?

 

Mikkel, as a follower of the other of the pre-Grouping "big three", reflects the Midland's reach in having on Farthing an example of a Midland D299 open wagon but not a LNWR D4.

 

The truth is, Ratio have a lot to answer for.

And of course the Midland had Samuel Waite Johnson .... an artist amongst engineers .... so even goods locos looked the absolute bees knees Hurrah for subjectivity

[wagonman]

And of course the Midland had Samuel Waite Johnson .... an artist amongst engineers .... so even goods locos looked the absolute bees knees Hurrah for subjectivity

 

 

The Great Eastern also had S W Johnson though with rather less aesthetic success. Could it be he had not yet found the right Chief Draughtsman?

 

MC&AHNY

[Lecorbusier]

The Great Eastern also had S W Johnson though with rather less aesthetic success. Could it be he had not yet found the right Chief Draughtsman?

 

MC&AHNY

I like to think the Great Eastern was a testing ground for development ... the Midland was the flowering of the full mature style. Style at the Midland fell away somewhat with the advent of Deeley.

[Brassey]

I'm not sure, though, that in its Edwardian hay-day the Midland's through carriage workings didn't reach a greater range of destinations than the LNWR's. Southampton, Bournemouth, Great Yarmouth, Fort William?

 

The Up York Mail featured a GWR Break Composite from Newcastle to Cardiff which ran on LNWR metals from Leeds.  Similarly, a LNWR Break Van from Newcastle to London on the same train. Some LNWR vehicles ran as far as Penzance.

[Compound2632]

The Great Eastern also had S W Johnson though with rather less aesthetic success. Could it be he had not yet found the right Chief Draughtsman?

 

MC&AHNY

 

 

I like to think the Great Eastern was a testing ground for development ... the Midland was the flowering of the full mature style. Style at the Midland fell away somewhat with the advent of Deeley.

 

I'm inclined to think that the 8'0"+8'6" wheelbase Johnson inherited from Kirtley at Derby was a significant input to getting the proportions right. The individual elements of Johnson's style were already there in his Great Eastern engines. Johnson was one of the few - Robinson being another - who made the turn-of-the-century leap to bigger engines successfully, both in terms of performance and appearance. The Belpaires and Smith-Johnson Compounds have an elegance that was lost in the more austere style that followed. But the Deeley 'look' - which probably was down the drawing office - wasn't so much a falling away as a change of direction - it was, after all, a style that continued up to the Patriots.

[Penlan]

 Some LNWR vehicles ran as far as Penzance.

Here's a LNWR 45' Dia 381A (Clerestory roof) and probably a 45' D80, followed by un-known at rear, at PZ.

 

 

I have seen a better quality photo than this, but where?

Edited December 23, 2017 by Penlan

[John_Miles]

I'm inclined to think that the 8'0"+8'6" wheelbase Johnson inherited from Kirtley at Derby was a significant input to getting the proportions right. The individual elements of Johnson's style were already there in his Great Eastern engines. Johnson was one of the few - Robinson being another - who made the turn-of-the-century leap to bigger engines successfully, both in terms of performance and appearance. The Belpaires and Smith-Johnson Compounds have an elegance that was lost in the more austere style that followed. But the Deeley 'look' - which probably was down the drawing office - wasn't so much a falling away as a change of direction - it was, after all, a style that continued up to the Patriots.

 

And then the Midland had Henry Fowler. A gas engineer trained by the L&Y who boasted he knew nothing about locomotive design and it showed. What a shame after the marvels of S.W.J. to have the stagnation that Fowler brought. That said, Midland engines were, with the exception of the Super Ds better than anything the LNWR had. This was demonstrated by the LMS and particularly Stamp's statistics.

[Compound2632]

And then the Midland had Henry Fowler. A gas engineer trained by the L&Y who boasted he knew nothing about locomotive design and it showed. What a shame after the marvels of S.W.J. to have the stagnation that Fowler brought. That said, Midland engines were, with the exception of the Super Ds better than anything the LNWR had. This was demonstrated by the LMS and particularly Stamp's statistics.

 

The early 20th century saw a shift from the Locomotive Superintendent as engineer to the Chief Mechanical Engineer as manager. Fowler had an excellent if pulling-in-different-directions design team in the Derby drawing office.

 

Compare the situation at Ashford - Harry Wainwright's design background was in passenger rolling stock. The success of his period in office was down to his drawing office, led by (Derby-trained) James Clayton. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Compound2632

[Londontram]

And then the Midland had Henry Fowler. A gas engineer trained by the L&Y who boasted he knew nothing about locomotive design and it showed. What a shame after the marvels of S.W.J. to have the stagnation that Fowler brought. That said, Midland engines were, with the exception of the Super Ds better than anything the LNWR had. This was demonstrated by the LMS and particularly Stamp's statistics.

[Penlan]

Presumably 'Londontram' has been left speechless ?      (see post #895)
.... At John Miles' comments.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Penlan

[Compound2632]

I had thought to get down to some soldering today, until I realised the extension cable used with my irons at the dining room table is in use for the Christmas tree lights.

 

So I decided to run up a batch of Slater's three-link couplings, but I'm blowed if I can find my pot of Carr's metal black (for the brass hooks). I evidently put it in an unmissable place on the garage shelves during the great autumn tidy-up, insead of leaving it on the corner of the layout where it had lived happily for the previous three years...

[Dave John]

Its always the same compound. Have a good tidy up so that everything is in its place, afterwards you can't find a thing ...... 

[Worsdell forever]

I had thought to get down to some soldering today, until I realised the extension cable used with my irons at the dining room table is in use for the Christmas tree lights.

 

 

Two of my extension leads are being used for christmas lights... 

[Compound2632]

Two of my extension leads are being used for christmas lights... 

 

That is one (two?)-upmanship - I suppose this has put a stop to your usual method of soldering with an iron in each hand?

 

I have no doubt the Carr's metal black will be there next time I'm frantically searching for something else...