More Pre-Grouping Wagons in 4mm - the D299 appreciation thread.

[wagonman]

 

 

I had a very interesting discussion on weathering of pre-group period wagons (a lack of which is a notable feature of my builds to date) with Jonathan Wealleans, along with a demonstration of his weathering techniques which I intend to try out shortly. He mentioned that in one of Keith Turton's books there is evidence presented that the larger PO users' contracts with the wagon building or repair firms could specify frequency of repainting, which could be as little as three years. This ties in with the observation that PO wagons often look smarter than company-owned wagons, in photos from the pre-Great War era or even into the 1920s.

 

 

 

Indeed most 5, 7 and 10 year contracts stipulated repainting the wagon twice: once at the end of the term and once in the middle. Given that most railway company wagons would see the inside of a paint-shop maybe once a decade, PO wagons would be generally much smarter. Many owners seen to have regarded their wagons as mobile advertisements.

 

Glad to see it was a successful visit though!

[Penlan]

I don't have any notes from the LNWR Registers but there is one GWR entry that might interest you (and me). A Daniel Jones of Llandovery – no relation to Mary as far as I know – whose name crops up in a Directory of the period, registered three wagons with the GWR, the first two (nos 1 & 2) in Dec 1896 and the third (no.3) in November 1898. All were 10-tonners, built by the Cardiff Rolling Stock Co and financed by North Central. GWR registration nos 25670-1, 34285. No idea what they looked like of course and I've not managed to find any photos of Llandovery goods yard.

Many thanks, uhmn, as I have a few un-letterd wagons looking for owners,

I might just find 'Daniel Jones' a wagon or two...

Especially as I've just bought the HMRS's PO Letters/Numbers sheet - P35.

which by it's size, I tried to tell them it must be for '0' gauge

Edited November 27, 2017 by Penlan

[wagonman]

Penlan

 

The Cardiff Rolling Stock Co, I admit, was one that had largely passed me by. According to Sambrook it was based at East Moors – along with pretty much every other wagon builder you could think of – was registered as a Ltd company in 1888 and went bust in 1905, the works being taken over by the Cambrian Wagon Co which also had the works formerly operated by the Dickensian sounding William Sneezum. I doubt anyone alive has any idea what their wagons looked like so, with the obvious caveat that they would need to hold 10 tons so robably 6 plankers, off you go...

 

 

PS: by an odd coincidence I've recently bought a sheet P35 from the HMRS!

Edited November 28, 2017 by wagonman

[Mikkel]

This ties in with the observation that PO wagons often look smarter than company-owned wagons, in photos from the pre-Great War era or even into the 1920s.

What an excellent photo. It would make a nice diorama in itself. Although a rather time consuming one!

 

 

Metcalfe card kits are my secret vice.

 

We're a wild bunch, us railway modellers.

 

[Penlan]

PS: by an odd coincidence I've recently bought a sheet P35 from the HMRS!

I'm about to cut it into more manageable pieces, perhaps I could put the large letters on Ebay 

[John_Miles]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128589-mystery-wagon-owner/

 

Well-worth-a look.

[wagonman]

I'm about to cut it into more manageable pieces, perhaps I could put the large letters on Ebay 

I'll keep a look out then...

[Compound2632]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128589-mystery-wagon-owner/

 

Well-worth-a look.

 

Thanks. Post Great War is my guess. Good photo of a pair of D299s in late Midland condition.

[Compound2632]

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
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[Western Star]

And?

 

What is next?

 

Are you sure?

[Compound2632]

On 01/12/2017 at 12:05, Western Star said:

And?

 

What is next?

 

Are you sure?

 

Moderately confident.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Compound2632]

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Miss Prism]

Ballast brake?

[Compound2632]

On 01/12/2017 at 22:23, Miss Prism said:

Ballast brake?

 

This is (progress towards) a Midland Railway ballast brake:

 

 

Another in the "must finish one thing before starting another" pile - D&S started over 20 years ago... (Now available from London Road Models).

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
image re-inserted

[Lecorbusier]

This is (progress towards) a Midland Railway ballast brake:

 

Midland D839 ballast brake.JPG

 

Another in the "must finish one thing before starting another" pile - D&S started over 20 years ago... (Now available from London Road Models).

I have one of these on order .... how do you find the kit?

Midland Dxxx Slaters brake van kitbash continued.JPG

Tarrif Wagon ?

[Compound2632]

I have one of these on order .... how do you find the kit?

 

Hard to say since it's about two decades since I did any work on it! It looks as if I came to a halt at the point I tend to stick with brake vans: handrails and whitemetal. I feel more confident with both so should take it up again. Also, it looks as if the body corners were a tricky bit - a simple butt join; though I seem to have got everything square.

 

Tarrif Wagon ?

 

Indeed. The fifth vehicle in this train! So you are to blame for this little diversion...

[Penlan]

I mentioned earlier, somewhere, about a wagon for Dunn & Co. Llandillo, on the Central Wales line.
The photo below represent my first and latest PO's.
The 'Amman Iron' wagon was one of my first forays into PO's, and built using the new fangled plastic card import from the State's - now called Plastikard - in 1967, based on a drawing I believe in the Model Railway News, but a quick look in the S.A.Leleux index didn't bring up a reference..  Edit, I've just realised, that's 50 years ago....).

The Dunn & Co., is the latest, it's white decal paper (bits) printed with an oxide colour which just about matches the wagon body colour.  This is not the actual circa late 1920's livery I have a copy of, that's subject to copyright (or something) it's my retro attempt.

 

Yes, I do have some problems with the ink running into the white, perhaps if I used a laser ink printer, all would be well

 

Daniel Jones, Llandovery, is in the pipeline 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Penlan

[Compound2632]

I mentioned earlier, somewhere, about a wagon for Dunn & Co. Llandillo, on the Central Wales line.

The photo below represent my first and latest PO's.

The 'Amman Iron' wagon was one of my first forays into PO's, and built using the new fangled plastic card import from the State's - now called Plastikard - in 1967, based on a drawing I believe in the Model Railway News, but a quick look in the S.A.Leleux index didn't bring up a reference..  Edit, I've just realised, that's 50 years ago....).

The Dunn & Co., is the latest, it's white decal paper (bits) printed with an oxide colour which just about matches the wagon body colour.  This is not the actual circa late 1920's livery I have a copy of, that's subject to copyright (or something) it's my retro attempt.

 

Yes, I do have some problems with the ink running into the white, perhaps if I used a laser ink printer, all would be well

 

Daniel Jones, Llandovery, is in the pipeline 

 

Amman Iron - Dunn.jpg

 

I particularly like the script signwriting on the top plank of the Dunn & Co wagon.

[Penlan]

I particularly like the script signwriting on the top plank of the Dunn & Co wagon.

If you see (eventually) the original photo of the real wagon, you may see why a group of us took some time to decipher what was actually there, though I seem to have missed the '&' between 'Steam' and 'Smiths' .

Edited December 2, 2017 by Penlan

[Dazzler Fan]

*

 

Nice to see the dumb buffers.

I was contemplating doing a few for Braysdown Colliery

on S&DJR

 

Noel.

[Compound2632]

*

 

Nice to see the dumb buffers.

 

I was contemplating doing a few for Braysdown Colliery

on S&DJR

 

Noel.

 

looking forward to seeing those!

 

Building dumb buffered wagons has several advantages, not the least of which is that you don't have to buy in any buffers. My solitary example to date did use a Cambrian kit as a scratch-aid but really there's no excuse to compromise - though it can help to work from an indistinct photo; what the eye can't see the model-maker will not grieve over.

[wagonman]

*

 

Nice to see the dumb buffers.

 

I was contemplating doing a few for Braysdown Colliery

on S&DJR

 

Noel.

 

 

Typically I have found out more information about Braysdown wagons since the book*was published... PM me if you want specifics though there are still massive gaps.

 

 

* PO Wagons of Somerset (Lightmoor)

[Compound2632]

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
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[Compound2632]

Things have been a bit slow on the modelling front lately – too much pre-Christmas and other stuff going on. I’ve been fiddling around with making my own Midland wagon numberplates – these will see the light of day in due course; also Slaters got their springs so I’ve got more three-link couplings to assemble…

 

Over a week ago I was working steadily on the tariff brake van. This is diagram D382A, two Lots of 30 vehicles each ordered in 1891 and 1892. The main point of reference is Plate 392 in Midland Wagons Vol. 2. This shows No. M.554, which I suspect is from the earlier Lot 263 – the photo shows, I think, a newly-built vehicle. The other photo in Midland Wagons, Plate 393, shows No. M.697 c. 1910 – this has planked rather than panelled doors; together with the higher number, this is suggests it might be from the second Lot 300. Between these two Lots, 100 D390 10 ton goods brake vans, 30 D393 20 to goods brake vans, and three D392 goods brake mail vans were ordered – 133 vehicles in the goods brake series. There’s no certainty these were numbered consecutively but if they were, this would tally with the difference of 143 between the two D382A numbers.

 

Thirty-two of these tariff brake vans were converted to ordinary goods brake vans in 1900 – it’s not clear what the alterations involved. I’m sceptical of the notes on the W.O. Steel drawing (Midland Wagons Fig. 194) as these include the addition of tablet racks as part of the conversion, but the train control system didn’t start until 1909. The conversion may have been prompted by the building of 250 tariff vans to Lot 433 ordered in 1898 – apparently identical to the “road vans” built at Derby for the S&DJR in 1896 (with further examples built by S.J. Clay in 1899).

 

The Slater’s kit for the D390 10 ton brake van has oil axleboxes; as shown above, these were carved off and replaced with MJT whitemetal Ellis 10A grease axleboxes. Here I hit a snag: the holes in the axleboxes didn’t line up with the holes in the moulded axleguards:

 

 

I tried drilling out the whitemetal but of course it’s a rather harder material than the plastic, so the moulded circle isn’t a very robust guide. I started off with a small diameter drill on the centre and gradually opened up, gluing waisted bearings in place:

 

 

This was looking quite promising but once I assembled the underframe, I found I the axles were far from parallel either with each other or the floor – a wonky wagon that waddled down the track. I’m thinking the solution will be to fit MJT inside bearing units – one fixed, the other compensated. This will make the van less free-running but that may not be such a bad thing. I read on here recently (and apologies I can’t remember whose point this was) that a model brake van should be a bit stiff, to keep the couplings taught throughout the train and avoid any tendency to unprototypical bouncing fore-and-aft. (All this applies just as much to building the Slater’s kit as a D390 brake van with grease axleboxes.)

 

[EDIT to add that I sanded down the back of the moulded W-irons and bevelled the visible edges as usual to reduce the apparent thickness to something closer to the prototype.]

 

I progressed a bit further with the body, building the panelled doors à la Jenkinson from 20 thou Plastikard (red) with a doily of 10 thou (white). This matched the thickness of the Slaters sides. The droplight frame is a further piece of 10 thou:

 

 

I have also scraped away at the bottom of the planked sides and added a bit of microstrip to represent the bottom rail of the framing. The Slater’s kit, like the D&S/LRM etched kit for the six-wheeled brake, has planking right down to the bottom. This seems to be characteristic of later construction – on many 6-wheeled vans, such as the preserved example, and possibly all D390 10 ton brakes, the vertical planks stop short of the bottom and the lower rail of the framing is visible; the same style of construction applies to these tariff brakes.

 

This van, along with the 6-wheel brake and any other Midland brake van I may build needs ten identical lamp-irons of the characteristic Midland design (not counting the four on the inside of the van, for holding spare lamps – I won’t be modelling those):

 

 

[Extract from Midland Railway Carriage & Wagon drawing 753, Midland Railway Study Centre item 88-D0276, reproduced under the terms of a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License.]

 

I’m thinking of making some sort of press to form these out of nickel-silver strip, which is more easily bent to shape than the brass scrap I tried before.

 

It took a bit of heart-searching to start this tariff van, chopping up two of my small stock of Slater’s brake van kits. Since I took the plunge I’ve been heartened by the news that these kits may soon be available again from Slater’s. Meanwhile, I have the parts left over for the veranda ends of two D390 10 ton brake vans – I’m wondering what I can do with two half vans! Cakebox challenge?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Compound2632
Images re-inserted

[Mikkel]

I like the look of that tariff van, compact and a bit different. Good idea to go for some MJT units, might be worth getting some new springs too.

 

Thanks for the tip about making the brake van a little less free-running, I've never thought of that.