jessy1692 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Looking good John,if you dont fancy putting the body on or finishing the tender you could always model GT3 like this: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrrm2448.htm Keep up the great work, i might be tempted to rechassis mine at some point watching this build.... Cheers James 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Looking good John,if you dont fancy putting the body on or finishing the tender you could always model GT3 like this: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrrm2448.htm Keep up the great work, i might be tempted to rechassis mine at some point watching this build.... Cheers James That's a wonderful picture. The barge man on the narrowboat in the foreground is clearing wondering what on Earth he is looking at.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) Now; to the pile of mysterious junk referred to and illustrated at the start of this project - this is where it all goes downhill and get's a bit Monty Python !! I should declare - for those who don't already know - that I don't do equalisation, springing, DCC, and particularly, sound ! I am fortunate enough to be able to remember well the sound of steam and the pilot scheme diesels, and so am quite happy to imagine the appropriate sounds when running trains. That said, GT3 was so radically different from the contemporary traction - particularly in the sound that it made - that I feel duty-bound to have a go at reproducing this sound; albeit electro-mechanically. Also, the front air intake fan was bright red, and very visible. When I mentioned to Tim Shackleton that I would like to make this operate on the model, he quite rightly pointed out that, driven by a free motor, the fan would rotate so fast as to be invisible. So, I found a tiny 200 RPM gearbox-motor on Ebay, which sits snugly beween the frames. As to the turbo-jet whine, I reasoned that the most likely way to reproduce this might involve a fan - or rather three micro-fans bolted end-to-end. I chose three, mainly to maximise the emitted sound, and because the micro-fans that I found on Ebay were rated at around 4V. However, when run in series from a 12V supply, the sound was far too tame. On the other hand, when run in parallel from the same 12V supply, the sound of the over-rated micro-fans was MUCH more in keeping with a turbo-jet !! I reasoned that the micro-fans would be self-cooling, and they only seem to get a little warm. Now, the micro-fans will only operate on one polarity, and the front air intake fan should only operate in one direction, regardless of the direction of travel. So - a rectifier was necessary, and was duly sourced from - you've guessed it - Ebay. When tried out as a test bench rig-up, the loco started to move before the 'turbo-jet' whine could get up to full revs. So, reasoning that a resistance in the motor circuit might delay movement, I sourced from you-know-where a selection of ceramic resistances in the 0 - 200 OHM range; trials suggest that something around 75 OHMS may well be optimum. The observant amongst you will have noted that the motor / gearbox is about to migrate from the front to the rear axle, in order to make room for all of this nonesense; and that I am proposing to fill any free space within the coupled wheelbase with copious amounts of 3mm. thick roofers' lead sheet. Now all of the foregoing is largely theory as yet, with only the bare minimum of practical testing. However, it all seems, somehow, to be in keeping with the ethos of the English Electric GT3 project. If they could get away with this; anything that I do will be tame by comparison ! Assuming that I don't disappear in the same cloud of smoke as my model GT3, further reports will follow. Regards, John Isherwood. PS. I wonder if a smoke-generator could be located, so that the fumes would be drawn into the fan and blown out through the roof exhaust vents? On the other hand, the whole sorry lash-up will probably generate more smoke than is desirable all on its own !! Edited February 14, 2021 by cctransuk 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Here's a possible "taste" of the sound you could mimic: 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) Get's you every time, doesn't it ? Try this, too ! Regards, John Isherwood. Edited October 10, 2016 by cctransuk 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Gets you every time, doesn't it.... I suppose the closest equivalent sound would be a jet engine being wound up, which might be an idea for anyone seeing a recording for sound chip purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 I suppose the closest equivalent sound would be a jet engine being wound up, which might be an idea for anyone seeing a recording for sound chip purposes. Yep - just take a recording device next time you're off to Malaga, or wherever. You should have all you need during the taxi run to the runway threshhold ! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4003 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Lovely! Have you tried closing the little fans off with a piece (or several) of paper with only little holes punched in? That should amplify their sound somewhat... (but also increase the load on them...) C,-w Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 What intrigues me about the prototype photos is that the superstructure looks less advanced at the time of the road test, but at Vulcan is shown further progressed, but the innards are missing. Quite a job to fish that lot out temporarily, I'd have thought. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I suppose the closest equivalent sound would be a jet engine being wound up, which might be an idea for anyone seeing a recording for sound chip purposes. All you need is a few bits of soundtrack off of 'Thunderbirds' (Fireflash perhaps?). Mmm, gotta love the sound of low bypass turbofans. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 All you need is a few bits of soundtrack off of 'Thunderbirds' (Fireflash perhaps?). Mmm, gotta love the sound of low bypass turbofans. Turbofans? they were a long way into the future when this loco was around. RR was putting the Conway into production in the mid 1950s or thereabouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 These might be useful. http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/magazine/Vol5_no8_1961/page_37_s.jpg http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/oddities/gt3.htm http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/magazine/Vol5_no6_1961/page_3_s.jpg This includes some photos: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/diesel-electric-gas-turbine-prototypes.427861/ If you page down on the second link there is a cut-away drawing of the loco showing the engine. This seems to be very similar to the turbo-shaft engines then being fitted to helicopters, so the sound could be similar. There might be a fly in the ointment however. One source says that there was a pump on the air intake which gave an audible 'thump' when it was running. Could this pump have been a reciprocating pump similar to the Westinghouse? Don't know. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 13, 2016 Author Share Posted October 13, 2016 These might be useful. http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/magazine/Vol5_no8_1961/page_37_s.jpg http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/oddities/gt3.htm http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/magazine/Vol5_no6_1961/page_3_s.jpg This includes some photos: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/diesel-electric-gas-turbine-prototypes.427861/ If you page down on the second link there is a cut-away drawing of the loco showing the engine. This seems to be very similar to the turbo-shaft engines then being fitted to helicopters, so the sound could be similar. There might be a fly in the ointment however. One source says that there was a pump on the air intake which gave an audible 'thump' when it was running. Could this pump have been a reciprocating pump similar to the Westinghouse? Don't know. Regards Thanks for that - two of the photos are of a much higher resolution than the versions in my database and the third, rear three-quarters view, is new to me and very useful for tender detailing. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_m Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Thanks for that - two of the photos are of a much higher resolution than the versions in my database and the third, rear three-quarters view, is new to me and very useful for tender detailing. Regards, John Isherwood. John, If you're looking for shots from the rear, then how about http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2014/remembering-ron/ It would be nice to trace the original print/neg, I'm sure there's more detail to be found. There's also ,ore to be had from "English Electric Gas Turbine Prototype GT3 in 1961 en route Chester, Llandudno, Chester with shots of the loco on the turntable at Llandudno, shots inside the cab, taking notes on gearbox temperature and train heating boiler 23/03/1961." http://www.britishrailways.tv/train-videos/2013-10/english-electric-gas-turbine-prototype-gt3-in-1961/ regards. martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessy1692 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 John, If you're looking for shots from the rear, then how about http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2014/remembering-ron/ It would be nice to trace the original print/neg, I'm sure there's more detail to be found. There's also ,ore to be had from "English Electric Gas Turbine Prototype GT3 in 1961 en route Chester, Llandudno, Chester with shots of the loco on the turntable at Llandudno, shots inside the cab, taking notes on gearbox temperature and train heating boiler 23/03/1961." http://www.britishrailways.tv/train-videos/2013-10/english-electric-gas-turbine-prototype-gt3-in-1961/ regards. martin Great find Martin, never seen GT3 in a video before, what a shame there isnt sound to go with it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) On 13/10/2016 at 23:28, martin_m said: John, If you're looking for shots from the rear, then how about http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2014/remembering-ron/ It would be nice to trace the original print/neg, I'm sure there's more detail to be found. There's also ,ore to be had from "English Electric Gas Turbine Prototype GT3 in 1961 en route Chester, Llandudno, Chester with shots of the loco on the turntable at Llandudno, shots inside the cab, taking notes on gearbox temperature and train heating boiler 23/03/1961." http://www.britishrailways.tv/train-videos/2013-10/english-electric-gas-turbine-prototype-gt3-in-1961/ regards. martin Martin, Funnily enough, I came across that image during the last week, and it has been very useful. I am currently struggling with the three step / handholds on each side of the tender. The Golden Arrow moulding has them in the wrong place, and I've tried filling them and carving new ones in the resin casting - none too successfully! I'll probably bite the bullet and fabricate new inserts to fit into spaces cut into the tender sides. For those who haven't already seen them, here are some close-up images which are very useful for modelling purposes. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited June 12, 2019 by cctransuk 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 http://www.steamindex.com/jile/jile52.htm , and scroll down. The journals of the ILocoE are available. The RCTS Library might have a copy of this one; it has many others. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_m Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 John, Great to see the British Pathe images. The close-up of the nose and filter assembly makes me realise that we need some EEhandrail knobs, it was actually last night that I found this call on DEMU, and chrome rather than brass! I had been wondering how to reproduce the actual step within the cutout = perhaps we need a new etch? I'm still not entirely convinced by the tender side profile, it doesn't seem to curve in enough at the top - perhaps we need a new tender body altogether? regards, martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) John, Great to see the British Pathe images. The close-up of the nose and filter assembly makes me realise that we need some EEhandrail knobs, it was actually last night that I found this call on DEMU, and chrome rather than brass! I had been wondering how to reproduce the actual step within the cutout = perhaps we need a new etch? I'm still not entirely convinced by the tender side profile, it doesn't seem to curve in enough at the top - perhaps we need a new tender body altogether? regards, martin Martin, I'll let you know how I get on with fabricating the step / handholds; I interpret the photos as a cut-out step with a midway handrail; note the upper one has a vertical handrail, too. The tender sides are too tall - I have removed 1.5mm from the lower edges; I then had to reprofile the lower edge by scraping and sanding. On my mouldings, the trim lines that carry the lining were not straight on both loco and tender bodies. I have carved them off; cut a straight top edge to the tender body sides with an Olfa 'scrawker', and reprofiled the upper edges by scraping and sanding. I replaced the trim lines with 0.375 x 1.0 mm. Evergreen strip, aligned against a straight edge. Regards, John Isherwood. Edited October 14, 2016 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Turbofans? they were a long way into the future when this loco was around. RR was putting the Conway into production in the mid 1950s or thereabouts. The development and build would appear to be roughly contemporary or even a little after the Conway turbofan (I have to admit I initially put turbojet until I found the Conway was a turbofan, albeit an early example). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4003 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 As for the chrome handrail knobs with base plate, I think those by Weinert HO are the right shape and size. They're lost wax brass so can be nickel or chrome plated to good effect ... Those stills are amazing. That trim with the double lines is puzzling. The lines really don't look like painted. What are they? The trim itself b quite substantial and at least on the tender (and cab?) seems to hide a some sort of rebate... For a detachable roof? C,-w Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 As for the chrome handrail knobs with base plate, I think those by Weinert HO are the right shape and size. They're lost wax brass so can be nickel or chrome plated to good effect ... Those stills are amazing. That trim with the double lines is puzzling. The lines really don't look like painted. What are they? The trim itself b quite substantial and at least on the tender (and cab?) seems to hide a some sort of rebate... For a detachable roof? C,-w The roof panels were removeable; hence the double handrail knobs and the gaps in the handrail at the roof panel joints. My transfer sheet BL149 (see http://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm ) contains the lining, including the curves. The lining is 1.0mm. wide; as the moulded lines are not dead straight I am replacing them with 1.0mm. wide Evergreen syrene strip. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 (edited) As for the chrome handrail knobs with base plate, I think those by Weinert HO are the right shape and size. They're lost wax brass so can be nickel or chrome plated to good effect Not speaking German, could you possibly post a link to these, please? Regards, John Isherwood. Edited October 17, 2016 by cctransuk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4003 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 John, Took me a bit to find them in his catalogue,(weinert-modellbau.de) (forgot what handrail knobs are called in German.....). Anyway, they are catalogue number 8463. One sprue is 20 knobs. Had some spares, so I attached a quick picture (excuse the quality, taken with the cellphone). The handrail stands 2mm off the body surface. They come with the handrail position orthogonal to the base plate, but careful twisting by opp degree won't destroy them. See photo. They take Gibson .35mm wire. In the other photo I hold them against GT3's cab edge, size seems ok. Maybe a wee bit oversized. Good enough for me. But probably a new sheet metal cab seems unavoidable. Eagerly watching what you all are doing with it. Anyway, Weinert doesn't sell directly, so googling for them directly should find you a dealer, maybe even in the uk. Hope this helps. C,-w Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Weinert parts are available from Wagenwerk.de, which claims to stock virtually the entire range of parts. Might not be quite so cheap now that the pound is going ever closer to parity with the Euro. Edited October 17, 2016 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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