Dapol Class 22

[Downendian]

Are you sure that's not green? It looks very dark to me, and I thought they left off the "D" when repainting.

 

Ed

 

No its blue, many 22s had D prefixes as did many blue Warships. the only class 22s to be green full yellow end were D6312 and D6331. No green 22s had the BR arrow applied.

Neil

 

 

 

[Pennine MC]

I see we're feeding the bulging granary of D&E myth again

Are you sure that's not green? It looks very dark to me, and I thought they left off the "D" when repainting.

With respect to Neil (nice pic BTW), it's dark because it's a dark photo.

 

The 'D' wasnt abandoned until late '68, after the end of steam. Lots of locos received blue livery before that

 

D6333 ended its days in blue as shown; that's not green as it has a TOPS data panel and does not have a green era logo.

 

 

I dont doubt for a minute that the loco pictured is blue, but the logic re- the data panel is completely flawed, I'm afraid. From late 1968, literally hundreds of locos had TOPS data stickers applied to green (or maroon) paintwork - photos arent exactly hard to find these days

[Rugd1022]

Well put Pennine

 

In answer to Gwiwer's post re- which members received the BR 'barbed wire' double arrow logos, here's a quick summary of all the blue locos, with repainting and withdrawal dates so you can see how long each one lasted in this livery (the repainting date refers to when a loco was released from Swindon Works). Once a given loco had received it's particular coat of blue, it was never repainted into another version of this colour, and all the other locos not listed here were withdrawn while still in green :

 

BSYP - blue, small yellow panels, serif style numbers with D prefix on the cabsides, small version of double arrow logo placed high up on bodyside.

BFYE (1) - blue, full yellow ends, serif style numbers with D prefix placed above the double arrows on all four cabsides, all painted during 1967.

BFYE (2) - blue, full yellow ends, corporate style numbers with no D prefix placed below the double arrows on all four cabsides, all painted during 1970/71.

 

BSYP :

D6300 6/2/67, wd 5/68

D6303 1/4/67, wd 5/68

D6314 late '66, wd 4/69

D6327 3/67, wd 5/71

 

BFYE (1) :

D6302 5/67, wd 5/68

D6318 4/67, wd 5/71 *smaller than usual arrows*

D6322 5/67, wd 10/71

D6325 4/67, wd 10/68 *smaller than usual arrows*

D6328 9/67, wd 7/71

D6332 5/67, wd 5/71 *there is archive footage of this one being overhauled at Swindon, filmed in April '67 and already repainted into blue*

D6333 21/7/67, wd 1/1/72

D6334 11/67, wd 10/71

D6336 13/10/67, wd 1/1/72

D6337 8/67, wd 10/71

D6339 12/67, wd 1/1/72

D6340 12/67, wd 5/71

D6342 12/67, wd 12/68

D6343 9/67, wd 10/71

D6354 5/67, wd 5/71

 

BFYE (2) :

6308 5/6/70, wd 9/71

6319 10/6/71, wd 9/71**

6326 5/70, wd 10/71

6330 12/70, wd 10/71

6338 10/70, wd 1/1/72

6348 6/70, wd 7/71

6352 3/70, wd 5/71

6356 2/70, wd 10/71

 

**poor old 6319.... released after a complete overhaul in June, only to be 'stopped' and withdrawn barely twelve weeks later. It was then bought and paid for by fledgling diesel preservationists but sadly cut up due to a miscommunication between Derby and Swindon.... it would have been fantastic to see this operating on a preserved line now, but at least it's premature demise lead to Warship 821 being saved instead.

 

Cheers,

Nidge

[Gwiwer]

Now that's what I call a useful post. Basically every one of the class accounted for one way or another which will help all of us who run / will run these locos no end. Drinks and respect are due .....

[Bob Reid]

.........Drinks and respect are due .....

 

 

To Pennine MC for myth busting

 

 

[Pennine MC]

Give over, Bob

[Rugd1022]

Mine's a half, I'm driving... the missus up the wall apparently

 

She'll be scratching the wallpaper off when the house starts filling up with little D63xx'ers......

 

Nidge

[Pennine MC]

Yeah, I've yet to tell the neighbours I'm having a Warship in the garage

[Tankerman]

Ultrascale do a spoked S.R. tender wheelset, which is the right diameter and number of spokes for one of these, and I ordered a set in P4 for my Silver Fox version. They also do them for OO and EM.

Thanks Captain. The wheels were so distinctive on the Class 22s. In my youth the small group of trainspotters who frequented Truro, after the diesels started to replace steam, thought that they were spoked as North British had them left on their hands from a cancelled foreign steam loco order.

 

Another bit of info to add to those already posted on Class 22 passenger workings. It was not uncommon to see them paired on passenger workings when the Warships were first introduced due to Warship failures. These were mostly on down trains, the Warships normally made it at least as far as Plymouth in the up direction. One memory is of two, working, Class 22s restarting a train consisting of a dead D8XX Warship and about 12 coaches from the down main platform at Truro into the remains of a westerly gale. Looking bacI I wish we had modern digital video/sound then.

[paulbb]

There were two class 22's that aquired celeb status; they hauled the trains in the filming of two Beatles films

'Magical Mystery Tour' and 'Hard Days Night'. I have a vague memory that D6336 was on of them.

Anyone else know anything about this? Only ever seen one image of this tho.

[Rugd1022]

There were two class 22's that aquired celeb status; they hauled the trains in the filming of two Beatles films

'Magical Mystery Tour' and 'Hard Days Night'. I have a vague memory that D6336 was on of them.

Anyone else know anything about this? Only ever seen one image of this tho.

 

Not sure about A Hard Days Night but I've just found the photo of D6336 on the MMT filming special, in Chris Leigh's fine tome 'The Western Before Beeching'. I'm sure this has appeared in another book but the photo is undated, however The Beatles set out for the West Country in their specially daubed coach on September 11th 1967, and had completed most of the filming by the end of the month. The train hauled by D6336 had the headcode 1Z48 and was made up of four maroon and one blue / grey Mk1s, the photo was taken at Bishops Nympton & Molland on the Taunton - Barnstaple line.

 

Cross referencing the date of the photo with the livery list further up the thread, it was taken just before D6336 went into Swindon for repainting into blue

 

Nidge

[Baby Deltic]

What an absolute tragedy the D6319 was cut by mistake - the last class 22 overhauled, and the last in existence.

[bubbles2]

I have been looking at the picture of D6319 in Model Rail and while it looks pretty good and not wanting to be too negative I have just realised why it looks wrong. The roof on green and early blue class 22s was body colour to behind the cab doors. Was D6319 different or have Dapol got it wrong, if so hope they get it right on the production models.

[Rugd1022]

I have been looking at the picture of D6319 in Model Rail and while it looks pretty good and not wanting to be too negative I have just realised why it looks wrong. The roof on green and early blue class 22s was body colour to behind the cab doors. Was D6319 different or have Dapol got it wrong, if so hope they get it right on the production models.

 

I think Dave has already said that the painted examples so far seen were done in a bit if a rush to get them 'out there' for us to see, and aren't strictly correct livery wise. Looking at the photos posted in the Warley thread (I think it was in there somewhere!) the bufferbeam area isn't quite right either but I'm sure this will be corrected before the models are released. The actual bufferbeam itself should be red but the 'cowlings' behind the buffers should be body colour, in this case green.

 

I don't believe that D6319 was a special case when in green, I'm pretty sure they were all painted with green over the cab roof, butting up to the grey panels.

 

Nidge

[Guest Phil]

Yeah, I've yet to tell the neighbours I'm having a Warship in the garage

 

It's Ok for you Pennine, you just open the doors and steam it in. Gotta get mine up into the loft somehow. wonder how strong the joists are .

[Captain Kernow]

It's Ok for you Pennine, you just open the doors and steam it in. Gotta get mine up into the loft somehow. wonder how strong the joists are .

Well, it's only a Baby Warship, Phil, so maybe your joists will be able to take it after all?!

[Baby Deltic]

Well, it's only a Baby Warship, Phil, so maybe your joists will be able to take it after all?!

 

Look on the bright side, it could be worse, it could be a Baby Deltic.

[Guest Phil]

Well, it's only a Baby Warship, Phil, so maybe your joists will be able to take it after all?!

 

 

 

Spot on Captain -well done there

[Phil Bullock]

No its blue, many 22s had D prefixes as did many blue Warships. the only class 22s to be green full yellow end were D6312 and D6331. No green 22s had the BR arrow applied.

Neil

 

 

 

 

But watch out - TOPS panel on at least D6331 was blue on a green FYE loco!

 

Were all TOPs panels blue?

 

Phil

[bluex5]

 

Were all TOPs panels blue?

 

Phil

 

They all look to of been printed on blue vinyl - I have pics of BR Green Hymeks and class 15's with blue TOPS panels.

[Pennine MC]

They all look to of been printed on blue vinyl - I have pics of BR Green Hymeks and class 15's with blue TOPS panels.

 

Yeah, observations of other classes support that. Memory suggests strongly that they were stickers, not a clear 'transfer' as a modeller might think in terms of.

[The Stationmaster]

Yeah, observations of other classes support that. Memory suggests strongly that they were stickers, not a clear 'transfer' as a modeller might think in terms of.

 

 

 

You're right - they were 'stickers' although I'm not absolutely clear what sort of material they were but it had a 'plasticky' feel and if it was the same as the wagon panels it came with a peel -off backing, and as they came into use in 1968 the background for loco panels was blue - that being the standard livery colour at that time. There was also what I would call a sort of 'blank' loco panel in which individual digits were added to a basic outline and headings and I definitely saw that used on some Hymeks but it might only have been a way of getting panels onto locos quickly as opposed to some sort of idea that the class concerned would be out of traffic within a few months?

And - as ever - I get thoroughly hacked-off with the description of these panels. They were/are (Loco) Data Panels, they came into use in 1968 as part of the new, national, freight train loads system and thus predated TOPS by 5 years. And after the introduction of TOPS they remained in use in case TOPS based information was not available and that in effect makes them not TOPS panels but BOTTOMS panels.

[bluex5]

I always thought of them as TOPS panels because they have the TOPS locomotive class in the top corner?

[craigwelsh]

I always thought of them as TOPS panels because they have the TOPS locomotive class in the top corner?

Not prior to TOPS though hence the point Stationmaster was making.

 

Like panel backed transfers on models these panels do seem to weather differently to the paint on the main loco.

[Bob Reid]

You're right - they were 'stickers' although I'm not absolutely clear what sort of material they were but it had a 'plasticky' feel and if it was the same as the wagon panels it came with a peel -off backing, and as they came into use in 1968 the background for loco panels was blue - that being the standard livery colour at that time.......

 

They were all made of 3M pressure sensitive adhesive film (as were the numbers & letters etc in various thicknesses)..... Designed that the longer they were on the harder they were to get off (guaranteed to rip when torn off by errant spotters)