A1 Trust announcements

[Simon Lee]

The opening windows is a bit of a daft idea really. If you have a vehicle fitted with Air-con, and then you open the windows, you are completely defeating the object of the air-con. As I'm guessing that the windows will be open most of the time, I'm guessing the air-con will spend most of its time turned off.

(Don't forget that although the Mk3's have door droplights, there are also saloon end doors that keep the vestibules separate from the main saloons)

 

They will need a genny van, but looking at the statement that the coaches will also carry water to extend the range by 200 miles, it looks like some sort of full brake will be included in the set, which presumably will also have the support staff and genny.

 

Andy G

 

One option could be hopper windows, the current 158 fleet has a/c and a number of hopper windows that can be opened. I would imagine that after the recent Balham incident there may be recommendations on the type of opening windows allowed. 

 

Vintage trains use a water carrier based on a converted GUV parcel van, not sure what that weighs in at from what I could make out it seemed to contain three of containers of the type often seen on fields / construction sites - a large plastic tank/container surrounded by wire mesh.

[pete_mcfarlane]

They could also describe the train as 'vintage 1970s coaches'. After all, by the time this set is in service the Mk3 will be nearly 50 years old. 

[Zomboid]

They could also describe the train as 'vintage 1970s coaches'. After all, by the time this set is in service the Mk3 will be nearly 50 years old.

Not if they use 442s

[Ken.W]

As far as building replica stock is concerned I think we're looking at the completely unattainable. 

You would also need an absolute mountain of paperwork (for each type of vehicle if there are any significant differences between them and have to spend hundreds of hours (and lots of money) getting them through type and safety and network approval, testings and acceptance before you could actually earn as much as a couple of pence from any one of them.  The last case i was involved with with the HST being adapted for the NMT on which I did some ISA (Independent Safety assessment) work - our list alone ran to c.100 items taking up pages of paperwork and effectively we were just telling the people putting together the paperwork how good or how valid it was before they presented it to the various panels, and they were paying hundreds of £s per person per billed day just for that.  they were no doubt paying even more for the stuff to be produced in the first place;  and of course it was only for modifications to an existing, in traffic, train and not for something totally new.

 

The MkIV fleet has always been plagued by it's unreliable air-con system, despite a number of refurbishments, as regular EC travelers on here will be only too aware.

 

This reminds me, early in GNER days consideration was given to complete replacement of the air-con system. It was said to have been ruled out as following any substantial modification  to the stock re-approval and acceptance would be required, the cost and time out of service for which would have been prohibitive

[62613]

I did hear a whisper that the rebuild of the Mk3s, which is going to involve new windows, may end up with a cosmetic LNER style exterior. If you look at a Mk3 and then look at the Gresley streamliners, they are not a million miles apart. I would prefer a fake teak finish myself and I don't know what the plans are for sure. A fake teak effect can look very nice on an all metal smooth carriage, as some of the preserved Thompson carriages show.

 

But I agree, if they end up looking like Mk3s I will be underwhelmed!

 

Cheers,

 

Tony

There were, even in the1930s, plenty of steel-panelled coaches built by the LNER; and all those post-WW2, of course; I think they all appeared in some sort of fake teak livery

[Horsetan]

Not if they use 442s

 

...or indeed 4-4-2s?

[Richard E]

The MkIV fleet has always been plagued by it's unreliable air-con system, despite a number of refurbishments, as regular EC travelers on here will be only too aware.

 

This reminds me, early in GNER days consideration was given to complete replacement of the air-con system. It was said to have been ruled out as following any substantial modification  to the stock re-approval and acceptance would be required, the cost and time out of service for which would have been prohibitive

It is not unusual to have at least one coach down in a normal rake and I have known it to be as many as four in a single rake. one down in first and three down in standard. And that was on one of our rarei-sh hot days this summer.

[Rumblestripe]

The V4->V3 plan seems an excellent choice to me. I would expect that such locomotives will be much in demand for use on secondary and heritage lines in the future. Would anyone know if (as I imagine) it would be more easy to be profitable running such a locomotive with say six carriages over a shorter distance (such as the York - Scarborough and Fort William - Mallaig runs) than having to fill a mainline run behind the A1/A3/P2?

 

As a resident of that there Darlington I'm idly wondering where such a building might be found, as I doubt anything sufficient to maintain and store a small fleet of modern steam locomotives and an associated rake of carriages including spares exists. I'm pretty sure that there is nothing on any of the old railway sites and the land that lies vacant near to the existing rail lines does not have good road access which would be pretty much de rigeur for deliveries of nothing else. I wonder if somewhere near the Hitachi factory in nearby Newton Aycliffe might be possible. Interesting.

[Enterprisingwestern]

The V4->V3 plan seems an excellent choice to me. I would expect that such locomotives will be much in demand for use on secondary and heritage lines in the future. Would anyone know if (as I imagine) it would be more easy to be profitable running such a locomotive with say six carriages over a shorter distance (such as the York - Scarborough and Fort William - Mallaig runs) than having to fill a mainline run behind the A1/A3/P2?

 

As a resident of that there Darlington I'm idly wondering where such a building might be found, as I doubt anything sufficient to maintain and store a small fleet of modern steam locomotives and an associated rake of carriages including spares exists. I'm pretty sure that there is nothing on any of the old railway sites and the land that lies vacant near to the existing rail lines does not have good road access which would be pretty much de rigeur for deliveries of nothing else. I wonder if somewhere near the Hitachi factory in nearby Newton Aycliffe might be possible. Interesting.

 

Is there still plenty of space at Shildon, kills 2 birds etc?

 

Mike.

[billbedford]

I think they have missed a trick by not building Gresley coaches/cars to modern standards,

 

 

Yer chust canna git da wid.....

[Christopher125]

I'm not sure how to read the comment on opening windows.  Are they just referring to the droplights in the end doors? Or are they going for proper opening windows like the Mk3 Dublin push-pull sets had?

 

Apparently they are looking to use those fitted to the 'Grand Hibernian' train in Ireland.

 

Belmond at Portarlington, 29/9/16 by Kieran Marshall, on Flickr

[DLPG]

V3 will be ideal for the heritage lines and I'm sure will be in high demand for the likes of the NYMR whom have a mainline section.

[peanuts]

Vintage trains use a water carrier based on a converted GUV parcel van, not sure what that weighs in at from what I could make out it seemed to contain three of containers of the type often seen on fields / construction sites - a large plastic tank/container surrounded by wire mesh.

 

 

 they are known as IBCs and hold between 1000 & 1200 liters of liquid  when full they weigh approx one tonne each 

[Torn-on-the-platform]

A very forward thinking idea from the society. There's been a lot of doom and gloom recently about the current Mk1 stock on the mainline, particularly the expense of upgrading their toilets. The society are just making sure that there will always be something for their locomotives to pull! It might not look so good from the outside (but even then, we don't know what the end result will be), but Tornado is a regular visitor to heritage lines so its not like we'll never see it at the head of more appropriate carriages,

[Rumblestripe]

Is there still plenty of space at Shildon, kills 2 birds etc?

 

There is quite a bit of land adjacent to Locomotion, though who owns what would be conjecture on my part.

 

The area behind the museum building appears to be still "railway land" and would have the required access from both rail and road (by extending the existing road) from the above google image it would appear to be big enough to fit a building as long as the Museum though perhaps not as wide. I know the Car Park area below the Museum building is higher but the area with trees/scrub appears to be on a level with the railway and perhaps formerly part of it.

[Mad McCann]

 

I assume that they are planning on the V4 for the Scottish market. Quite a good idea if you think about it, the right size for trains like the Jacobite and also for most heritage lines. I wonder if they'll name it Bantam Hen.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Well the second one had that unofficial sobriquet, so maybe this one's Bantam Egg. ;-)

 

D.

[Chameleon]

More like Curate's Egg!

I'm glad they are sticking with LNER designs as they are way underrepresented in preservation.

[Ken.W]

More like Curate's Egg!

I'm glad they are sticking with LNER designs as they are way underrepresented in preservation.

Yes agreed, and only natural as they're naturally sticking with types unrepresented in preservation and unfortunately, the LNER ones were the furthest from a certain Welsh island haven.

I think only a couple ever made it there, and the only reason we actually have a pair of B1s, compared to the number of the LMS equivalent

[The Black Hat]

V3 will be ideal for the heritage lines and I'm sure will be in high demand for the likes of the NYMR whom have a mainline section.

 

Should have been the Thompson L1 - but you cant do that if your using the name "Gresley" as a selling point for joe public. Its clearly a Gresley bandwagon to build the designs of the one who built Mallard and Scotsman, etc. Sensible, but I think the L1 would have been a better choice. 

[MarkC]

Yes agreed, and only natural as they're naturally sticking with types unrepresented in preservation and unfortunately, the LNER ones were the furthest from a certain Welsh island haven.

I think only a couple ever made it there, and the only reason we actually have a pair of B1s, compared to the number of the LMS equivalent

 

There was only the one - B1 61264 - and IIRC she was initially passed over by several folk as being too far gone for consideration. The firebox was one item of (expensive) concern, if memory serves?

 

[MarkC]

What is to say that an L1 won't be next when the V3 is finished and even if the A1/P2 Trust don't build it themselves there's a possibility another trust may be formed or an existing trust that has a new build in progress may decide to build an L1.

 

The only way really is to just keep an eye out in magazines like steam railway and heritage railway because who knows 1 day an announcement of an L1 being built may happen.

 

All we can do is wait and see.

 

Some FarceBerk Groups have already proposed an L1...indeed the proposer even suggested a Southern L1 too at one point (I suspect that he didn't know that such a beast had existed until he was asked which L1 it was that he was trying to garner support for) - but the real gem, by the same bloke, was a proposed J39 - with a copper boiler...- yes, really. Some very amusing threads were to be seen on NatPres...

 

The trouble with dreamers like that is that it doesn't do the movement any good

[Ken.W]

There was only the one - B1 61264 - and IIRC she was initially passed over by several folk as being too far gone for consideration. The firebox was one item of (expensive) concern, if memory serves?

 

Thanks for the clarification. I meant that the reason we have two B1s is at least one of them made it to Barry, but wasn't sure whether both had. Was there another exLNER type that got there, or was 61264 the sole one, thought there'd been maybe a couple ?

It's also why, other than obviously the A4s, the B1s the only LNER type with more than a single survivor

[Ken.W]

Should have been the Thompson L1 - but you cant do that if your using the name "Gresley" as a selling point for joe public. Its clearly a Gresley bandwagon to build the designs of the one who built Mallard and Scotsman, etc. Sensible, but I think the L1 would have been a better choice. 

 

Why?

I recall the L1s as being relatively unpopular and considered poor as compared to the V3 among the former steam men who'd dealt with them.

They were also reputed to have a nasty habit of landing in turntable wells, as the brakes were said to be poor.

[MarkC]

Thanks for the clarification. I meant that the reason we have two B1s is at least one of them made it to Barry, but wasn't sure whether both had. Was there another exLNER type that got there, or was 61264 the sole one, thought there'd been maybe a couple ?

It's also why, other than obviously the A4s, the B1s the only LNER type with more than a single survivor

Hi Ken

 

61306 was preserved straight from BR. Of course, as an aside, she was the last steam along the Hull-York route, if memory serves, so deserves a place in history...

 

No, 61264 was the only ex LNER locomotive to grace Dai Woodham's yard.

 

Cheers

Mark

[peach james]

An IBC would seem useless to me- if you are talking 200 mile range, then you need to be able to drag around a LOT of water with you, which is dead weight.  If you are throwing on a ton an hour of coal, you are looking at 8-10 tons/hr of water, which should give some order of magnitude of how much is needed...50 tons or so of water (or 50 000 L for those of you with new math skills...).  That's 40 IBC's in the support vehicle, and way more weight than the genset will be.  (I'd guess 200 kw genset).  One advantage of having the genset in the coach, you could use the waste heat to pre-heat the feedwater to some extent...

 

 

 

James