Hornby 2017 Range (announcement date)

[rembrow]

Overall there is much I like about the 2017 range and am pleased with the MK1 BSO and FO that have been wanted for some time. After much thinking about my existing Princess Coronation stock have decided to retain then but have added the Ivatt version 'Sir William Stanier FRS' as this has noticeable differences to most of the type. I don't have much to be concerned with on the prices, particularly the detailed coach stock, some of which are just touching prices they achieved 10 years ago, when for some reason the Gresley and Stanier corridor stock in BR maroon was over £40 per coach. The pricing that does surprise me is the BR Mk1 and Mk2D and Mk2E, now priced at £39.99. The Mk1 and Mk2E are both products of the design clever period, with minimal added detail, so there is not a significant labour content. Last year the non lit Mk1 and Mk2E coaches were £29.99, so a £10 hike. Are Hornby trying to match Bachmann's Mk1 prices, if so, for me the Bachmann model is to a higher standard. There are plenty of maroon Mk1s and Executive Mk2Es around in retailers at the moment at the old price and the earlier £24.99, so apart from the new tooling, can't see these selling, I shall limit myself to the maroon BSO and FO and retain my detailed Replica FOs. No rake of Mk1 Eastern stock for me.

 

As for the decision to price the MK2D coach at £39.99, you have to ask 'are they having a laugh'. Nearly 40 year old ex Airfix tooling, which has been round the block more times than my old bike, and was thought to have been replaced by the Mk2E tooled models, come on they are Railroad range material. It's decisions like this that Hornby make on old tooling that make me wonder if the sales team know the product they are marketing, as they've done this many times before. Or is it an attempt to cash in with the new Class 87 as the only Mk 2 stock in blue/grey

Edited January 9, 2017 by rembrow

[Coryton]

 The pricing that does surprise me is the BR Mk1 and Mk2D and Mk2E, now priced at £39.99. The Mk1 and Mk2E are both products of the design clever period, with minimal added detail, so there is not a significant labour content. Last year the non lit Mk1 and Mk2E coaches were £29.99, so a £10 hike. Are Hornby trying to match Bachmann's Mk1 prices, if so, for me the Bachmann model is to a higher standard. There are plenty of maroon Mk1s and Executive Mk2Es around in retailers at the moment at the old price and the earlier £24.99, so apart from the new tooling, can't see these selling, I shall limit myself to the maroon BSO and FO and retain my detailed Replica FOs. No rake of Mk1 Eastern stock for me.

 

I thought with a less detailed model (and perhaps much more focus on ease of assembly) Hornby had a good product they could undercut Bachmann significantly on. I'm not sure what would justify buying a Hornby mk1 at £40 vs a Bachmann one at maybe a little bit more. Unless Bachmann are about to push their prices up to £60...

 

In any case there's something odd going on, given the new crimson and cream Hornby MK1's are £22. Maybe anybody who wants one should get their pre-order in now...

[Legend]

I think people too often think about what items may cost to make , while in reality the price is set by manufacturers on basis of what they think they can get for them. Like others I'd question £39 for the Mk1 , really that's a huge differential on the £22 crimson and cream Railroad ones. I'd have thought a price of £32 ish would have been more appropriate, in fact they are selling their Mk3s at that price.

[JSpencer]

I think people too often think about what items may cost to make , while in reality the price is set by manufacturers on basis of what they think they can get for them. Like others I'd question £39 for the Mk1 , really that's a huge differential on the £22 crimson and cream Railroad ones. I'd have thought a price of £32 ish would have been more appropriate, in fact they are selling their Mk3s at that price.

Well Bachmann's Mk1 POT (post office) coach is now RRP £59.95 and can be picked up for just over £50. I suspect other new Bachmann Mk1 in 2017 to be similar.

[Free At Last]

I think people too often think about what items may cost to make , while in reality the price is set by manufacturers on basis of what they think they can get for them.

I am sure it does not cost £65 more to make R3517 LMS Royal Scot class 4-6-0 @ £199.99 than it does to make R3557 LMS Royal Scot class 4-6-0 @ £134.99.

[Coryton]

I think people too often think about what items may cost to make , while in reality the price is set by manufacturers on basis of what they think they can get for them. 

 

Absolutely - but given that these are (presumably) cheaper to make than the Bachmann ones, they should be able to price them for less than Bachmann can and still make a profit on them - and by doing so I would have thought increase sales by more than enough to make up for the reduced margin.

[Coryton]

I think people too often think about what items may cost to make , while in reality the price is set by manufacturers on basis of what they think they can get for them. Like others I'd question £39 for the Mk1 , really that's a huge differential on the £22 crimson and cream Railroad ones. I'd have thought a price of £32 ish would have been more appropriate, in fact they are selling their Mk3s at that price.

 

Are the blood and custard ones Railroad? It doesn't say that on the Hornby web site that I can see.

 

If so, it's a bit different from the previous few pounds between Railroad and non-Railroad Mk 1s.

[Legend]

Are the blood and custard ones Railroad? It doesn't say that on the Hornby web site that I can see.

 

If so, it's a bit different from the previous few pounds between Railroad and non-Railroad Mk 1s.

I think they must be Coryton . It's the only explanation I have for price differential. .But even then you would struggle to see difference. Supposed to be a higher standard of decoration and metal wheels. I run Choc Cream , Maroon and Crimson Cream. Railroad models and I'm quite happy with standard of decor. They don't have coaching roundels, but I can easily add them Edited January 9, 2017 by Legend

[Legend]

Well Bachmann's Mk1 POT (post office) coach is now RRP £59.95 and can be picked up for just over £50. I suspect other new Bachmann Mk1 in 2017 to be similar.

Yes I'd agree. Bachmann playing an interesting game though. I don't think I've seen confirmed prices on Bachmann website yet, just Hattons prices and they may only be indications. I note that the Branchline range is expected to go up 6% which seems pretty good when Brexits caused a 18% devaluation affecting their costs in China ( note not all costs and profit margins are in China some are UK £, which haven't gone up) . Of course that's after 3 years of very large increases. Let's not forget that, so Bachmann may well have a little more leeway than others to absorb costs. I wait a price list with some interest

[Coryton]

I think they must be Coryton . It's the only explanation I have for price differential. .

 

Well, that or someone, somewhere, has made a mistake.

 

Or is carrying out a very interesting experiment?

[Coryton]

Yes I'd agree. Bachmann playing an interesting game though. I don't think I've seen confirmed prices on Bachmann website yet, just Hattons prices and they may only be indications. I note that the Branchline range is expected to go up 6% which seems pretty good when Brexits caused a 18% devaluation affecting their costs in China ( note not all costs and profit margins are in China some are UK £, which haven't gone up) . Of course that's after 3 years of very large increases. Let's not forget that, so Bachmann may well have a little more leeway than others to absorb costs. I wait a price list with some interest

 

Some of the Hattons prices are clearly labelled as estimates.

 

Others aren't which would imply that Bachmann has given them prices already...but maybe that's a false assumption.

[The Stationmaster]

Some of the Hattons prices are clearly labelled as estimates.

 

Others aren't which would imply that Bachmann has given them prices already...but maybe that's a false assumption.

 

On past experience I wouldn't trust some of Hattons prices on new models when the manufacturer hasn't given an RRP.  Don't forget the infamous case of the Brighton atlantic several years ago - Hattons aim is to grab pre-orders and going in low with the prices they show, even if labelled as 'estimates', is one of their sales tactics.  

 

When there's an RRP from the manufacturer and we know what a retailer can actually discount from it's easy enough to work out whether they are giving an accurate price or not.  When the manufacturer hasn't even come up with an RRP  (possibly because they don't know themselves what it will be) you might as well ask Mystic Meg for a figure because it'll be just as valid as the figure quoted by a retailer.

[rembrow]

I think people too often think about what items may cost to make , while in reality the price is set by manufacturers on basis of what they think they can get for them. Like others I'd question £39 for the Mk1 , really that's a huge differential on the £22 crimson and cream Railroad ones. I'd have thought a price of £32 ish would have been more appropriate, in fact they are selling their Mk3s at that price.

 

We are in agreement I think. I quoted the reference to the lower potential production costs to burst the bubble that the increase is due to increased manufacturing costs. For me this is evidenced by the pricing of the long in the tooth Mk2D coaches at the same price. This is pricing to maximise the amount that can be achieved  from Mk 1 items that haven't been released before and are not produced by rivals or not for a long time (in the case of the FO) and expecting that to be able to cascade to other Mk 1 models that do compete, in expectation that some will want to buy a rake from the same producer. The Mk 2D and 2E models are clearly designed to be linked to the new Class 87 and its 2 planned liveries. Hornby did a similar pricing for the ex LMS restaurant car, of Dapol vintage, which doubled in price when they linked it to the newly tooled Stanier 57ft coaches at circa £45. My advice is to shop around and stock up now, there are plenty of Hornby Mk1 and Mk2E coaches available currently at between £24.99 to £29.99 in liveries that will suit the new motive power.

[Free At Last]

When I originally ordered the Coal Tank from Hattons in September 2014 it was quoted at £102.

Todays notice has it at £101.96

Now what can I spend that 4p on...

Edited January 9, 2017 by Free At Last

[sp1]

We are in agreement I think. I quoted the reference to the lower potential production costs to burst the bubble that the increase is due to increased manufacturing costs. For me this is evidenced by the pricing of the long in the tooth Mk2D coaches at the same price. This is pricing to maximise the amount that can be achieved from Mk 1 items that haven't been released before and are not produced by rivals or not for a long time (in the case of the FO) and expecting that to be able to cascade to other Mk 1 models that do compete, in expectation that some will want to buy a rake from the same producer. The Mk 2D and 2E models are clearly designed to be linked to the new Class 87 and its 2 planned liveries. Hornby did a similar pricing for the ex LMS restaurant car, of Dapol vintage, which doubled in price when they linked it to the newly tooled Stanier 57ft coaches at circa £45. My advice is to shop around and stock up now, there are plenty of Hornby Mk1 and Mk2E coaches available currently at between £24.99 to £29.99 in liveries that will suit the new motive power.

As an alternative to the Bachmann model they are/ were very good at a much lower price - in fact I think Tony Wright commented on them in an article in BRM. If they approach the price of the Bachmann ones then I think Hornby will lose out.

 

I have, over the past 12 months been picking up the Railroad ones at prices between £11 and about £18 - old prices, or discounts from my local model shop, or discounted by the likes of Kernow etc. There are still a few about.....

I am now finding that some are between £20 - £25 , which is still much less than Bachmann (not sure if these are Hornby Railroad or main range) but if they approach Bachmann prices then I will think twice.....

[Graham_Muz]

Hi

I have a question about the MN loco they are doing, is the pony wheel under the cab fixed and will they give you a flanged wheel to replace the one thats on the Photo?.

Darren

 

Hi Darren

 

I have just checked the CADs, that I am privy too, and the rear pony truck is a separate part but fixed (as per other recent 4-6-2) to allow for better representation of the ash pan etc. and it does also show the flangeless wheelset, but I can not advise if they will include a flanged version with the loco, but as it is the same wheelset as per all the other Hornby Bulleid Pacific releases it should not be too difficult to get hold of one.

 

Edit: to note that this reply is with respect to the new tooled Air Smoothed Merchant Navy.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Graham_Muz

[Going2theDogs]

Hi all,

Pleased to see Hornby are looking to provide the MGR as a HFA with a yellow cradle as a 3 pack. I know we have had the MGR with Railfreight red cradle, an EWS version as well as a single variant with graffiti on it last year. I believe the R6761 HAA with yellow cradle was introduced in 2016 but somehow this past me by.

With this new HFA is I believe the first time that this combination of yellow cradle & hood has been provided.

I am sure someone can confirm if this is the case.

Anyhow, this will enable me to really mix up my rakes.

Happy modelling.

[phil-b259]

HERE, HERE,

 

You've mentioned it , and I have often thought about it.

RE. The 1935 style brake composite in the Hornby push-pull set.

 

I would also hope that Hornby would one day re-tool this model and produce it in it's original

main line condition. Especially as Hornby made such a fine job of capturing the ' look ' of the prototype.

The 1935 style coaches had a very distinctive appearance with the flush glazing, and very visible

body side screw heads, which were peculiar to 1935 built Maunsell coaches.

 

I think people are rather forgetting that Hornby are only just beginning to recover from a rather troubled time that saw many models announced in January being cancelled later in the year or significantly delayed.

 

Thus while I do agree that it would be nice to have further Maunsell coaching stock in olive, what Hornby have done by only releasing a single set is perfectly sensible.

 

If Hornby have a successful 2017 and manage to deliver on the relatively conservative 2017 range (as compare to say, that they announced and delivered in 2006) then I would hope that they would look to increase the amount of new releases (and new tooling) in 2018*.

 

* Which I would hope could also include a schools in olive with smoke deflectors, a N15 in olive with a 'watercart' tender as well as the Maunsell coaching stock you suggest.

Edited January 10, 2017 by phil-b259

[brushman47544]

"The Rich Uncle Set" is a concept embedded in the Hornby DNA.

 

In 1952, Triang released the R6 trainset, which became known as... "The Rich Uncle Set" for some obscure reason.

 

http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/R6%20Set.html

 

I suppose the cost was somewhat equivalent to the £600 version of today, althought the modern set is probably operationally more sophisticated!

.

 

Now that is interesting... Has anyone noticed how much better the platform ramp in that set looks to the current version? The old one has one straight and one curved edge, whereas both are curved on the current one so don't look quite right alongside straight track. Progress?

[Hroth]

Now that is interesting... Has anyone noticed how much better the platform ramp in that set looks to the current version? The old one has one straight and one curved edge, whereas both are curved on the current one so don't look quite right alongside straight track. Progress?

I hadn't really thought about it but perhaps its to maximise the length of platform on the straight side when used for an island platform, the ramp would fit very neatly into the fork of a pair of points and in a tabletop oval, you'd get at least 3 coaches (or a loco and two coaches, if you wanted to pass trains) along the straight platform edge without overhang!

[papagolfjuliet]

 

Plus an 8F with what looks like the old tender drive Fowler tender used in the Railroad range - perhaps the 8F is now officially downgraded to Railroad, or is there a new policy of mix n match the ranges?

 

 

Not sure if this has already been replied to, but that looks to me like the (much better) Airfix Fowler tender from the 4F and 2P.

[GordonC]

I wonder if they will announce Mk2 b/c's during the year to go with the 87 and D400 special edition?

 

They have been high on the wishlist for a while..

 

if they did I'd hope they wouldn't make the same solebar c*ck up from the Mk2e's again!!

[Coryton]

if they did I'd hope they wouldn't make the same solebar c*ck up from the Mk2e's again!!

 

That's one's still a bit of a mystery to me.

 

I'm not too picky when it comes to models, but a solebar on a Mk2 is just downright wrong.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I think people are rather forgetting that Hornby are only just beginning to recover from a rather troubled time that saw many models announced in January being cancelled later in the year or significantly delayed...

 That's one view.

 

I am of the opinion that this is going to be their standard operational model for all reliveries from existing tooling. The retailers are offered a product selection, and what gets manufactured is only that which the retailers order in sufficient quantity to make the production run viable. (This 'pull' system has been operating for a large variety of consumer goods for many decades.) If that's correct then some time mid year there will be a list of cancelled/deferred products. Let's see.

[Ian Hargrave]

That's one view.

 

I am of the opinion that this is going to be their standard operational model for all reliveries from existing tooling. The retailers are offered a product selection, and what gets manufactured is only that which the retailers order in sufficient quantity to make the production run viable. (This 'pull' system has been operating for a large variety of consumer goods for many decades.) If that's correct then some time mid year there will be a list of cancelled/deferred products. Let's see.

 

And for Hornby's view see post 30 on the parallel GWR HST thread if you haven't already done so.