Hornby BR Mk1 Coaches (Main range and Railroad)

[Pint of Adnams]

I'm aware that a separate thread was started on the announcement of production of the FO and BSO with separate detail and other improvements compared against the previous production. But with a number of other BR Mk1s now announced for 2017 I thought it might be helpful to collate all of the relevant information so that interested modellers could determine which models were to which production standards and levels of detail and other useful information.

 

The previously-announced FO and BSO thread is here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116076-Hornby-announce-mk1-fo-and-bso/.

 

The Hornby website does not yet provide adequate data concerning the level of details on the future production models. Hopefully and as that information becomes available perhaps those who come into possession of it might post it here?

[Hilux5972]

It will have the same level of detail as the new range that began with R4350 I believe it was. Mostly moulded detail but with reduced Livery detail for Railroad range.

[steve1023]

The newer Hornby Mk1s were released initially in December 2013 as 6 versions (3 types - BSK,CK & SK) available in Maroon and Chocolate and cream. The models were all marketed under the Railroad brand and aside from the crucial livery details (running numbers, 1st class symbols and lining where required) were devoid of other markings on coach ends and sole bars etc. As mentioned above the models had moulded on detail and also (much derided by this community) plastic wheels. The models were essentially a cheap alternate to Bachmann's higher detailed Mk1s, but very good they were too.

 

In 2014 Hornby announced additionally a SO/TSO (I believe both variants modelled correctly) to the range but made to the same standard as the previous release's i.e with moulded detail, but what differed this time was Hornby announced both Railroad versions (same as above) and standard versions which were priced slightly higher but included full markings and metal wheels. They were also available in Maroon and chocolate and cream.

 

Also in 2014 Hornby released a SR green 4 set. These were also standard versions (still with moulded detail, full markings and metal wheels) but these also included interior lights and were subject to further price increase over the now standard version. The lights to be honest are bit of a gimmick, and didn't cover all the passenger compartments and require some re-working to get lights in all the compartments, but not that bad.

 

Since then Hornby have added the BG (correct length) and have now announced the FO and BSO types which are 2 types not covered by Bachmann in their range and much requested.

 

Steve

[Bernard Lamb]

Could you please change the title.

It's confusing and could lead to simple folk like me getting excited that they are bringing out a full fat main range version.

Bernard

[Pint of Adnams]

No I will not change the title because it describes that which I want it to.

 

The point of my OP was that in the recent Engine Shed edition announcing the FO and BSO, reference was made to updated details including window mouldings, bodies and seating:

 

http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/10730/

 

So are these main range releases announced for 2017 being similarly updated too? And are there to be any differences in the Railroad range from previous models?

 

Also that Engine Shed edition suggested submitting requests for additional liveries for those products but why not also submit suggestions for other types or variants of Mk1?

[rembrow]

No I will not change the title because it describes that which I want it to.

 

The point of my OP was that in the recent Engine Shed edition announcing the FO and BSO, reference was made to updated details including window mouldings, bodies and seating:

 

http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/10730/

 

So are these main range releases announced for 2017 being similarly updated too? And are there to be any differences in the Railroad range from previous models?

 

Also that Engine Shed edition suggested submitting requests for additional liveries for those products but why not also submit suggestions for other types or variants of Mk1?

 

​I believe the critical info from Hornby, in the Engine Shed was 'For this release we have adapted the tooling for the window units, the body and the seat units and applied them to our existing underframe and bogies'. This for me indicated that the underframes would be as previously tooled, which is with most detail included in the tool (battery boxes, handrails etc) and that appropriate existing body and glazing tools would be adapted to produce the new versions. I don't anticipate new tooling, but modifications, which are not permanent, to existing Mk 1 tools, presumably by additional 'slides' for the tool masters. The EP samples that I've seen in photos indicate this to be the case, with end handrail/water pipes being moulded with the body and brake/guards handrails being moulded

[nhdesigns]

In my own view I find that Bachmann are better when it comes to the MK1 coaches. That said they're easy to dismantle and modify. I have a rake of MK1 coaches in the executive livery that I got and weathered and the level of detail is better than what Hornby are producing. Even though Hornby ones feature internal lighting. Or is it the MK2's? Can't remember.

[9402 Fredrick]

Hornby released two rakes of four MK1s with internal lighting.

[Legend]

I prefer the Hornby Mk1s as they are lighter and therefore easier for my locos to pull , and are less prone to phantom uncouplings. They also seem to run through my pointwork better but that could be my tracklaying which doesn't appeal to more sensitive types.

 

I dont believe they are upgrading the existing range , except to produce them in blue and grey . The FO and BSO are simply joining the main range.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Legend

[Hilux5972]

I agree Legend. I have had endless troubles with my rake of 5 Bachmann Mk1's. Even after fitting Kadee's to them, the derailments continue, albeit less frequently but still annoying.

[toboldlygo]

I prefer the Hornby Mk1s as they are lighter and therefore easier for my locos to pull , and are less prone to phantom uncouplings. They also seem to run thrpough my pointwork better but that could be my tracklaying which doesn't appeal to more sensitive types.

 

I dont believe they are upgrading the existing range , except to produce them in blue and grey . The FO and BSO are simply joining the main range.

 

I prefer the Hornby ones, as they are much better behaved on the track (no derailing or decoupling issues), consequently my remaining Bachmann ones are being sold on a certain Auction site

[nhdesigns]

Hornby released two rakes of four MK1s with internal lighting.

Oh right I see.

[Mike Storey]

This is interesting. I have seen declared preferences for the Hornby Mk 1's elsewhere, and this seems to confirm it, despite their Railroad connotations. I have seen both in the flesh, and the Bachmann versions seem more detailed and closer to today's expectations. But if they are not good runners, there is not much point. I only need them to form a charter set, to run infrequently. Does anyone have similar or contrasting views? If Bachmann are bad out of the box, are there simple improvements that put them back in the lead?

[Adrock]

In terms of weight...the Bachmann mk1s are on the heavy side I think. Therefore, I have removed the internal weight from all of mine which if I remember correctly was around 20% of the weight of the coach. Without the weight, the coach weighs about the same as a Hornby Hawsworth coach. I have always managed to slip the weight out of the side without needing to dismantle the coach, which I have found is it a task not to be undertaken lightly.

 

In terms of rolling performance, I've found it's always down to the close coupling mechanism. Some are better than others and I've tended to move poorer performing ones on and kept the better ones. They need "running in" so they can swing freely. I also tend to loosen off the bogie screw ever so slightly. All this together seems to help and I use the Hornby version of the roco couple between coaches. A rake of 7 puts a bit of strain on the CCM springs which pulls the coaches slightly apart. I may change the coupling solution at some point in the future.

[Adrock]

One other thought - detail and quality of finish on the Bachmann's is superb. Others have said however that the end profile shows a better body shape on the Hornby version.

[davidw]

This is interesting. I have seen declared preferences for the Hornby Mk 1's elsewhere, and this seems to confirm it, despite their Railroad connotations. I have seen both in the flesh, and the Bachmann versions seem more detailed and closer to today's expectations. But if they are not good runners, there is not much point. I only need them to form a charter set, to run infrequently. Does anyone have similar or contrasting views? If Bachmann are bad out of the box, are there simple improvements that put them back in the lead?

Simple mods to the Bachmann mk1s is to remove the internal weight. Not really needed- they are heavy vehicles. Also slacken the screw to the bogies so there's a little more play. Ensure that the wheels run freely use a little Pfe or oil. Remove all the roof ribbs and spray roof with matt67.

 

The Hornby vehicles are very good at source. Remove the roof ribbs and carefully carve off the pipes. Replace these with .45 wire.

 

These coaches can be mixed in a rake and will pass the 2ft rule.

[The Bigbee Line]

I have a set of southern region green Hornby with lights: the wheels run smoothly and the lights are a good starting point. They look right to me. I've also a set of blood and custard Bachmann. I had one BSK that didn't match heightwise to its neighbour. That was fixed with a packing washer. They look good , but I like the balance of detail if the Hornby versions.

That's just my opinion. Just need a decent length of track to give them a good gallop....

[Phil Bullock]

To improve running of Bacchy Mark 1s in addition to above tips:

 

Check the back to back measurements

 

And for those running on Commonwealth bogies check the top of the damper moulded on to the side of the bogie isn't fouling on the underframe - if so just trim it back a bit.

 

And with the addition of the Hornby close couplings they close right up on straight track. Will be interesting to see how that works with the Hornby FO/BSO without a close coupling device

 

Phil

[adb968008]

I found checking the back to backs on the wheels and loosening the screw under the bogie solves most of my issues.

Also when buying second hand, check the coupling is the correct type... they really dont like being a mix of cranked and straight.

 

Very occasionally I have a wheel that drags in a bogie, a drop of oil on the pivot of the axle solves it, never had on requiring a drilling of the cone to hold the axle in the bogie.

Edited January 27, 2017 by adb968008

[Legend]

It's not that the Bachmann models are bad runners it just seems that they are more susceptible to derailing . I fully accept that my track work is far from perfect but Hornby Models do tend to sail over them while Bachmann ones derail. Not all of them , just one, and it's usually the second one in a set of 5 or 6 . I think in a previous thread it was suggested that this was down to the coupling system.

 

The other issue is they are heavier , so some of my locos struggle with a full 6 on while they have no problem with the Hornby lighter ones.

 

Overall Hornby are just less hassle . I do have some combined rakes incorporating some coaches Hornby don't make eg BCK, Restaurant cars and they run fine. So you can combine them easily enough, again taking into account the weight if the rake becomes predominantly Bachmann.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Legend

[JSpencer]

I have almost 20 Bachmann coaches and found them to be satisfactory running around even in a Heavy rake of 8 (although one is actually a Mk 2 FO and one is a Hornby lighted Brake), this with a Horse box at the front.

 

It does require a powerful engine to pull them, a Hornby Merchant Navy or Bachmann Nelson copes just (given the slight inclines over the length of the circuit), but the rebuilt West Country, Clan and Britannia run flawlessly with a load.

 

That said, I find Bachmann's SR green dark and Variable while Hornby's is spot on and matches the green on a much older Replica rake of SR Mk 1s (which I will not dispose of).

 

It should be noted that while a Bachmann Nelson barely copes with 8 (+ Horse box), coped perfectly with 9 Mainline and Replica Mk1s.

[Hilux5972]

Personally I prefer the NEM pockets on the bogies as per the new Hornby ones. They just seem to behave themselves more.

[Adrock]

It's not that the Bachmann models are bad runners it just seems that they are more susceptible to derailing . I fully accept that my track work is far from perfect but Hornby Models do tend to sail over them while Bachmann ones derail. Not all of them , just one, and it's usually the second one in a set of 5 or 6 . I think in a previous thread it was suggested that this was down to the coupling system.

 

The other issue is they are heavier , so some of my locos struggle with a full 6 on while they have no problem with the Hornby lighter ones.

 

Overall Hornby are just less hassle . I do have some combined rakes incorporating some coaches Hornby don't make eg BCK, Restaurant cars and they run fine. So you can combine them easily enough, again taking into account the weight if the rake becomes predominantly Bachmann.

Did you read the comments in this thread since your last post? They have answered your points around the close coupler mechanism and the weight.

[31A]

From my point of view, I think the glazing on the Hornby coaches is better with less prismatic effect around the edges than on the Bachmann ones; in fact I think this is an area which Hornby often do well (e.g. the Thompson and LMS non gangwayed stock), but bear in mind the Bachmann ones were designed quite a long time ago now.  This is counterbalanced by the wire handrails and pipes on the Bachmann ones which look better (although as has been pointed out, not difficult to replace on the Hornby ones with wire if you want to), and the greater variety of types available from Bachmann (so far).  I've also experienced derailing arising from the close coupling mechanism on the Bachmann ones so the solutions mentioned above are interesting.

[Hilux5972]

From my point of view, I think the glazing on the Hornby coaches is better with less prismatic effect around the edges than on the Bachmann ones; in fact I think this is an area which Hornby often do well (e.g. the Thompson and LMS non gangwayed stock), but bear in mind the Bachmann ones were designed quite a long time ago now. This is counterbalanced by the wire handrails and pipes on the Bachmann ones which look better (although as has been pointed out, not difficult to replace on the Hornby ones with wire if you want to), and the greater variety of types available from Bachmann (so far). I've also experienced derailing arising from the close coupling mechanism on the Bachmann ones so the solutions mentioned above are interesting.

Hornby now has one over Bachmann now by producing the BSO, which has not been modelled in RTR OO Gauge before.