Third-Rail EMU Photos

[Gwiwer]

The NRM owns but increasingly "farms out" items not of core interest to its curatorial staff and less likely than some others to bring in the paying public.  So for example they allow the T9 to be on extended loan to those lovely caring people at Swanage where it can be of use rather than being plinthed in York or Shildon.  

 

But the EMU stock they have is reported to be in somewhat less than sparkling condition.  I haven't been and cannot offer first-hand accounts but images seen suggest the motor coach of 4-COR 3131 is in need of significant work despite being nicely painted whilst 2-BIL 2090 hasn't shown itself in the light of day in many years and a couple of sketchy accounts suggest it isn't looking too well.  

 

If they got a 313 (or anything else) can we trust that it will be well cared for?  I have my doubts.  

 

What has been needed for a long time now is a single site for EMU preservation.  Coventry tried gamely on a site not their own and remote from the SR network and most of the required expertise.  Full marks for what they did at the time but it wasn't sustainable in the long term in my opinion.  

 

West Worthing cleaning shed was mooted for such a project at one time but is long gone.  It wouldn't have been ideal but did hold 36 carriages under cover.  The Hornby site at Margate is not suitable either because it can only be a store and not a restoration and visitor centre.  I cannot think of a single suitable location and that has been the problem all along - there isn't one.

 

The depot at Strawberry Hill has also been spoken of in the same terms.  Part is near-empty and operated by NR with a few under-cover roads; the rest is an active SWR depot but "active" is a loose term here as very few trains are now berthed or cleaned and anything beyond an overnight exam has to be done at Wimbledon.  Access is near-impossible because the only option is via pedestrian level crossing over the Teddington - Fulwell curve and the site itself is fully within the railway triangle there.  Delivery or removal of stock by road cannot occur because of the extremely restricted access.  Not even Allelly's can get a trailer around Shacklegate Lane and through the kinks in the access road and even if they could the item would have to be winched across two live running lines via a pedestrian-only level crossing.  There is precious little headshunt either making rail access / egress to all roads other than the one nearest the crossing difficult or impossible without shunting onto the NR lines at the other end of the yard.  

 

So where do we go?  All the groups with their worthy aims and preserved items?  Some of which have been superbly restored, some are under restoration for the long haul and others are, frankly, very rusty and woebegone indeed.  Answers on a postcard, please.  

[Nearholmer]

My postcard answer would involve sending a lot of what has been preserved for recycling, and creating a gallery centred around perhaps no more than three big exhibits: a slam-door dc Suburban EMU DMBS; a sliding door ditto; a first-generation AC electric loco. I’d also have room for a fourth, which would be a ‘rotating exhibit’ on loan from elsewhere, VER car, street tram, tube car, battery loco, modern power car etc.

 

The rest I would cover with a combination of models, interpretive displays, and interactive exhibits, and I would “refer out” to other important sites like the VER, Snaefell, Crich, Blackpool, LTM, the LOR car (where is that again?).

 

Where? Well, I honestly think it should be at the NRM.

 

 

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

What has been needed for a long time now is a single site for EMU preservation.  Coventry tried gamely on a site not their own and remote from the SR network and most of the required expertise.  Full marks for what they did at the time but it wasn't sustainable in the long term in my opinion. 

 

 

Its a shame the Government doesn't invest in our national museums properly - there are several ex MOD sites with undercover storage opportunities (e.g. Bicester)  which would ideally lend themselves to becoming RM 'outstations' in the manor of Shildon and could even be used to display some of the Science museums reverse collection from Wroughton.

 

But yes, a private group is always going to struggle... look how long its taken for even the biggest players in the Heritage Railway movement to build covered accommodation for their stock.

Edited May 17, 2022 by phil-b259

[Darius43]

 

End of the line…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Gwiwer]

Attention has focussed on Southern's 455s this past week.  They are not the only trains we should be watching.  

 

The timetable change has reduced the number of SWR class 458/5 duties from a few to a mere handful.  They have lost their duties on the Kingston "rounders" and all but one turn on the Reading line.  Those which remain in traffic are confined to a couple of Windsor turns (10-car) and Hounslow "rounders" (5-car) with some peak-time Weybridge-via-Hounslow 5-car operation also.  The rest now appear to be out of traffic awaiting conversion to 458/4 units for the Portsmouth Direct route though there seems to have been little tangible progress with that.  

 

The reshuffle of stock has seen several main suburban duties converted to class 450 operation on the Waterloo - Guildford (via Cobham), Chessington South and Woking (stopping service) routes which inter-work.  In turn that has resulted in some 12-car main line trains being reduced to 8-car.  There are also more 5-car class 444 workings on the main line routes to Portsmouth and Alton than previously in order to release units for the second hourly and newly-restored Waterloo - Weymouth service.  

 

Southern is all-Electrostar apart from the Sussex Coast and Uckfield routes.  The restored Clapham - Watford service (which has been withdrawn from Milton Keynes without ceremony) is now 4-car 377/2s replacing the 8-car formations.  So far the 377/3s remain in the Metro area and there are still 10-car trains running nearly empty around south London while Brighton line commuters are expected to cram into 8-cars.  

[Claude_Dreyfus]

My visit to Clapham Junction and South London was mainly to catch the end of the Southern 455s, but I was also aware of other endangered species, including the 458s. Unfortunately I was never in the right place to grab the perfect shot, and a few were obscured by things passing in front. I do have a couple here though...for posterity.

 

 

 

Of course, there are also the SWR 707s and their 455s with a limited time left (albeit the 707s making their way to South Eastern...I've seen a couple, but no photos as yet).

 

707015 and 455723

 

455720

[adb968008]

On 18/05/2022 at 17:02, Gwiwer said:

So far the 377/3s remain in the Metro area and there are still 10-car trains running nearly empty around south London 

I can assure you they are not.

 

Ive heard from an office member earlier this week that when a train became so overcrowded he saw passengers fall out onto the platform floor when the doors opened on one carriage.

 

Tonight theres been a fatality and a post on twitter suggests a child got facial injuries from overcrowding.

 

Ive seen some very full trains this week, my line saw only a 1 carriage cut, but it was enough to ram the train full. Tomorrow its my turn to feel it again.

 

Twitter’s Southern feed is full of complaints this week, including some aggression from passengers toward other passengers as a result, which is hardly reassuring.

 

The best way to get people back into office, is to create fear.. weve got a recession coming, and being seen at your desk will be peoples response to try and avoid the inevitable redundancies… thats when the trains will really strain.

Edited May 19, 2022 by adb968008

[phil_sutters]

On 18/05/2022 at 11:56, Darius43 said:

 

End of the line…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Hove to - for the last time!

[Gwiwer]

35 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

On 18/05/2022 at 17:02, Gwiwer said:

So far the 377/3s remain in the Metro area and there are still 10-car trains running nearly empty around south London 

I can assure you they are not.

 

I will agree to differ in the knowledge that individual experiences will differ. A train lightly loaded at one point can be well filled elsewhere. 
 

I work at Clapham and am in a good position to note loadings and formations there. I see plenty of 10-car Southern trains. Many are lightly loaded.  With-flow peak trains are busier and some are well filled.
 

It is normal (almost anywhere in the country) for trains to be busier than usual at times of service disruption. 
 

But it is the main line services which load the heaviest and many of those have been reduced from 12 to 8-car. 

[adb968008]

On 19/05/2022 at 20:34, Gwiwer said:

I will agree to differ in the knowledge that individual experiences will differ. A train lightly loaded at one point can be well filled elsewhere. 
 

I work at Clapham and am in a good position to note loadings and formations there. I see plenty of 10-car Southern trains. Many are lightly loaded.  With-flow peak trains are busier and some are well filled.
 

It is normal (almost anywhere in the country) for trains to be busier than usual at times of service disruption. 
 

But it is the main line services which load the heaviest and many of those have been reduced from 12 to 8-car. 

My experience is East Croydon, London Bridge, my comment was individual, yours read to me as a generalisation that implies 10 car trains running nearly empty, and I stand by my assertion, some are not.

Quote

there are still 10-car trains running nearly empty around south London 

 

Your clarification after the original comment is noted, that we do actually agree.

 

Also Twitter is a big source of angst (admittedly it is everyday), but the comments mostly form the route this week.. namely “wheres my train gone”, “why is my train so short” and “why is it so overcrowded”, rather than the usual “xyz is canceled”, “xyz is wrong” etc.

 

lets agree to agree, as I dont think we disagree.

 

As your at Clapham, here's a Southern 455 before it's conversion...

 

 

and 455843 on it's penultimate service through Clapham, and the last ever London Victoria bound Southern 455 service.. 843 did the honours of final service in the opposite direction  too

 

 

The Southern has a number of very pretty metro area stations, including Kenley, which to me just needs a steam train...

 

 

455843 again....at Kenley...

 

 

and whilst i'm at it.. heres 455843 at Coulsdon Town too...

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by adb968008

[Claude_Dreyfus]

What could be my final Southern class 455 photograph. 455801 and 455826 rest silently in the Horsham down carriage sidings awaiting their inevitable fate. The oil terminal is to the left, with its siding on the right hand side of the picture (holding the 377/6, which can just be made out). The oil unloading pumps and pipes can still be seen along the siding (and one can just about be be seen). I am not sure when the last oil train ran to Horsham, it will have been 20-30 years I am sure. A shame really, as the oil depot is still in use. 

[John M Upton]

There are also several dumped in Hove Sidings and another eight car set in the Horsham station sidings too (the latter slipped quietly into Horsham just minutes after the farewell tour train departed).

 

Stewarts Lane is also host to a lot too, this seems to be the final port of call for decommissioning before they are towed away in pairs, a task that looks like it could take months, they will still be seen under their own power for a little while yet but only going one way.

 

The farewell tour pair complete with newly overhauled bogies have already gone!

 

Just out of interest, what gets taken off as part of decommissioning?  I presume the GSMR kit for a starter.

Edited May 21, 2022 by John M Upton

[Darius43]

15 minutes ago, 313201 said:

If I may ask please, what was the unit photographed at clapham converted into

The version of the Class 455 shown in the photo directly below that one.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Claude_Dreyfus]

37 minutes ago, 313201 said:

If I may ask please, what was the unit photographed at clapham converted into

 

Here is the same unit a couple of weeks ago.

[iands]

2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Just out of interest, what gets taken off as part of decommissioning?  I presume the GSMR kit for a starter.

One would hope so John, but 'ownership' and 'area of responsibility' for recovery of the GSMR (before the scrap man gets his hands on it) might be a bit hazey. The SIM card in GSMR mobiles is a Network Rail asset, but the radio tray, display head (HMI) and antenna belong to either the ROSCO or the TOC. 

[Gwiwer]

While the rest of the world has been following the fate of Southern 455s today saw the Southern Electric Group’s AGM taking place at Shepherdswell with a rode on the in-traffic 4-COR motor coach. The second coach on site was open for inspection but requires major work before returning to service. 
 

S11161S (not in traffic) in the platform at Shepherdswell. 08676 ahead and in-traffic S11187S beyond. 
 

A similar view with another of the EKLR’s shunters at the Eythorne end ready to shunt the empty stock. 
 

S11187S at Eythorne. The cab controls, brakes, whistle and power handle, are in working order allowing the train to be “driven” from the front although propelled by a class 08 at the rear. 
 

In the depths of Golgotha Tunnel the lighting is seen to good effect and some of the 1937-built saloon interior. 
 

Cab end detail of S11187S at Shepherdswell
 

Also resident at the EKLR are “Thumper” unit 205001 and “Networker Express” 365524 both of which are a carriage short of their original formations. The 365 spent most of its time “under the wires” out of Kings Cross but some of the class were originally delivered for third-rail use at Ramsgate depot. 

[phil_sutters]

A couple of shots taken from inside buses held up by 313s crossing the road! Pensioners' bus passes keep the buses running and they are a closer fit with my excursions to Lidls.

[John M Upton]

Lovers Walk to Bognor empties:

 

[Nearholmer]

On 21/05/2022 at 22:51, Gwiwer said:

allowing the train to be “driven” from

Are you saying that things have been rigged to give power control of the 08 from the cab of the COR? If so, highly ingenious!

 

I must somehow find a way of having a ride on the EKLR and a poke round the site, because my only trip over the route was on Shanks’s Pony about forty years ago when I had a few days work at Shepherdswell Substation and went for a lunchtime wander.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Nearholmer

[John M Upton]

Horsham Station Sidings awaiting the call...

 

[Gwiwer]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Are you saying that things have been rigged to give power control of the 08 from the cab of the COR? If so, highly ingenious!

 

I must somehow find a way of having a ride on the EKLR and a poke round the site, because my only trip over the route was on Shanks’s Pony about forty years ago when I had a few days work at Shepherdswell Substation and went for a lunchtime wander.

 

 

I used the term "driven" in inverted commas intentionally.  The train is powered by the diesel locomotive.  As there is no run-round at Eythorne this propels the train from Shepherdswell.  One benefit of using the COR motor coach is that a competent person (who also happens to be a SE driver in this case) is present at the front of the train and able to operate the brakes and whistle.  The actual driver is on the locomotive and is required to keep a sharp lookout ahead.  

 

When the EKLR was home to some of the preserved MLVs the COR stock was worked electrically in service on at least one occasion.  With an MLV coupled at the "trailing" end and with a full charge to the batteries the round-trip was accomplished under electric power.  I seem to recall the power was bussed through the COR wiring and we had the MG turning over as well.  

 

Main line operation is extremely unlikely now although third-rail or another form of electric operation over a heritage line remains possible.  Nothing has been done which would prevent the unit ultimately moving under its own power though this remains a long-term and at present very remote possibility.  

Edited May 24, 2022 by Gwiwer

[C126]

Had to dash down to Sussex on Thursday, but the journey back yester-day (Friday) morning gave me a ride on our favourite 313, on 2C23, the 10.25 Seaford to Brighton, and yielded this (mediocre) photo:

 

 

Hope of interest in the future when it has gone to the great siding in the sky.

Edited May 28, 2022 by C126

[phil_sutters]

After a day trip to Lancing (Morris' Models), Portsmouth Harbour (Spinnaker Tower) and Lee-on-the-Solent (last visited when in the CCF on a naval aviation course at HMS Ariel) I ended up travelling back on 201 as well. My photos are even more dodgy, as the Sun was setting and a friend was waiting to give me a lift home.)

More snaps from the trip later.

 

[adb968008]

4 more class 455’s off to Newport next week, Monday and Wednesday 1038 off Stewarts Lane.

 

Monday

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03592/2022-05-30/detailed

Wednesday

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03592/2022-06-01/detailed

[Grizz]

Number 1 son informs me that the 313s have had a reprieve for a bit….possibly December….he has inside info as he is depot based.