Third-Rail EMU Photos

[Peter Kazmierczak]

5802 and 5829 off to the Grim Reaper today.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Lazing around Lymington.

[John M Upton]

Littlehampton on Wednesday morning, having awoken 377130 from its slumber where it had slept since Monday, it was off to Brighton...

 

Fully loaded to the rafters and very slowly as one of the motors was duff...

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Entering the carriage sidings at Poole from the western end. Due to limited accommodation at Bournemouth, units sometimes run ECS to Poole and back between turns to Waterloo.

[John M Upton]

The small sub class of dual voltage 377/2's have been spending more time sunning themselves on the Sussex Coast lately, 377204 reached Littlehampton this morning:

 

[Gwiwer]

35 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

The small sub class of dual voltage 377/2's have been spending more time sunning themselves on the Sussex Coast lately, 377204 reached Littlehampton this morning:

 

The random use of 377/2s on Sussex coast trains has been noted at Clapham too. Along with the free mixing of 377/7s (pantograph-fitted 5-car units) with the more normal class 377/6 on Caterham, Horsham via Dorking and other duties. 
 

The one-time Brighton - Rugby service for which they were ordered has been successively cut back to a Clapham Junction - Watford Junction shuttle employing just two units. 
 

I had 377209 for my trip down to Christ’s Hospital yesterday. It tuned up again later to take me back from Pulborough.  Seems to have something amiss in the suspension department too as both trips were full of alarming bumps and lurches which didn’t feel like track faults. 

[Darius43]

 

Winchfield this morning.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Welly]

^^^

I can hear the groaning in that photo!

[Darius43]

5 hours ago, Welly said:

^^^

I can hear the groaning in that photo!

It wasn’t  be as bad as it looks.  Clan Line was stationary taking on water 😊

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[John M Upton]

Parked up for the night down Bognor Regis...

 

[John M Upton]

With the juice having been turned off overnight down Littlehampton, it was down to me to wake 377429 from her slumber before heading off all stops to Brighton this morning:

[Gwiwer]

On 15/07/2022 at 23:44, John M Upton said:

Parked up for the night down Bognor Regis...

 

And apparently set to stay a little longer on the coast. 
 

SWR in co-operation with SE will retain the 707s not yet transferred indefinitely. The class 458 conversion program is also paused. 
 

This maintains fleet strength in the continued absence of the 701s but means that the Great Shuffle is also on hold. 707s not moving to SE means 377/5s not bring released to Southern which in turn means there is nothing to replace the 313/2s until further notice. 
 

Service cuts cannot be the permanent answer when trains are already full, standing and sometimes leaving folk behind. Not just on the Sussex coast but the use of 4-car trains out of London early in the mornings. Numbers travelling from Clapham and Croydon towards Gatwick (and indeed between Clapham and Croydon) mean that four is nowhere near enough. 
 

On SWR the class 450 duties in suburbia introduced with the May timetable change reverted to 455 from 18th July. More 455s are now available; the program to fit tgem with remanufactured bogies continues. 
 

The 450s have strengthened main line services which had been cut from 12 to 8, or 8 to 4-car. Apart from some Alton and Portsmouth duties which are fairly quiet and are worked by solo class 444 units most main line trains are now at least 8-car. A few 9-car duties currently exist formed 444+450. 
 

There remains no sign of a 701 entering traffic - it won’t happen this year - and there is every sign of the 455s being in traffic for another 18-24 months. And therefore also the 313/2s which should have been retired by this Christmas. 

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Service cuts cannot be the permanent answer when trains are already full, standing and sometimes leaving folk behind. Not just on the Sussex coast but the use of 4-car trains out of London early in the mornings. Numbers travelling from Clapham and Croydon towards Gatwick (and indeed between Clapham and Croydon) mean that four is nowhere near enough. 
 

 

 

But thats what has got to happen if you want longer trains.

 

The 'men from the ministry' are adamant that rail use has fallen through the floor despite plenty of testimony that says the opposite.

 

With the Southern 455 having been swiftly dispatched for scrapping (no doubt at the behest of the DfT who micromanage the GTR operation) to 'save money' and 'secure value for taxpayers' as the Treasury puts it the option of resurrecting some to help cover for the delayed rolling stock shuffle (or simply reverse some of the crass decisions already taken) isn't available...

 

It would be nice to think that the general public might realise they have the ability to pass verdict on the instigators of this mess come the next general election...

[scottystitch]

Cosham 24/7/22

 

Bognor 23/7/22

 

Bognor 23/7/22

[Gwiwer]

7 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

The 'men from the ministry' are adamant that rail use has fallen through the floor despite plenty of testimony that says the opposite.

Some of those “men from the ministry” might be among those obliged to stand on a full-length 12-car train bound for Waterloo in the morning peak. 
 

Patronage recovery is very varied. Off-peak and especially on Saturdays it is at 100-110% of pre-pandemic levels. Which is one reason that some operators run a full (as in pre-pandemic) service on Saturdays yet not other days. 
 

Peak-time travel into London is at an average of 65-70% but “contra-peak” traffic, those who travel at peak times but in the opposite direction to the “peak” flow, is somewhere around 120% pre-pandemic on certain routes and widely 100%. 
 

Within that are new commuting patterns. Wednesday is the busiest “weekday” with Tuesday and Thursday somewhat quieter, Monday quiter still and Friday the least-busy of the lot. Previously the load had been much more even across all five days. 
 

Hybrid working also extends to schools and higher education. The same peaks and troughs are found with, for example, noticeably more children and students travelling mid-week than on Monday or Friday. 
 

The industry has to find cost-effective ways to manage this. So far the answer seems to be to accept that a full-length train will no longer be as busy as it once was on all days of the week. Conversely offering shorter trains to effect cost savings will mean severe overcrowding at times on some days.  
 

Darned if you do and darned if you don’t. 

[John M Upton]

All ties in with 'reliable sources' saying October 2023 for the 313's final hurrah now.

 

Having driven Coastway trains between Brighton/Portsmouth and some of the tedious hourly Bognor/Littlehampton hourly shuttles on Sunday I can tell you that leisure travel is way more than pre pandemic now, the first weekend proper of the Summer Holidays and various events in Brighton and elsewhere has seen very heavy loadings.

 

Oh, and it seems the West London Line service (now reduced to a Clapham to Watford shuttle in effect) may be suspended indefinitely too.

Edited July 24, 2022 by John M Upton

[DY444]

Flip side is there are several 8 and 10 car circuits running around South London off peak on weekdays that are virtually empty.  Seems to me a reorganisation of the unit diagrams is needed to better match the available stock to demand.

[Gwiwer]

54 minutes ago, DY444 said:

Flip side is there are several 8 and 10 car circuits running around South London off peak on weekdays that are virtually empty.  Seems to me a reorganisation of the unit diagrams is needed to better match the available stock to demand.

Many Southern Metro services are very lightly used off-peak even with the service reductions which remain in place. 
 

One issue is that these trains are often full for one trip in the morning and evening. The traditional “peak problem”. 
 

In earlier times trains were split and single units run off-peak but shunting the spare units around requires drivers and track access pathways.  
 

So the trains remain at full length all day somply because it is the cheaper option. 
 

If the capacity were not needed for peak-time service I would agree that stock could be better used elsewhere. 
 

An alternative is to permanently reduce the diagrams to single units and risk leaving many people unable to board at certain times. 

[DY444]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

Many Southern Metro services are very lightly used off-peak even with the service reductions which remain in place. 
 

One issue is that these trains are often full for one trip in the morning and evening. The traditional “peak problem”. 
 

In earlier times trains were split and single units run off-peak but shunting the spare units around requires drivers and track access pathways.  
 

So the trains remain at full length all day somply because it is the cheaper option. 
 

If the capacity were not needed for peak-time service I would agree that stock could be better used elsewhere. 
 

An alternative is to permanently reduce the diagrams to single units and risk leaving many people unable to board at certain times. 

 

However there is a big mismatch on individual corridors even in the peak.  LB-East Croydon is mainly 5 cars all day which is ok off peak but not for peak.  LB-Epsom is 10 car all day which is too much even in the peak, Vic-Horsham is mainly 4 car which is not enough etc etc.   The whole lot needs to be rebalanced because atm it looks like what it is; ie thrown together at the last minute as cascade plans fall apart.  

 

Meanwhile in a sane world, the class 379s currently sitting in sidings, would feature in some plan to sort this out.   GWR put a tender out for some emus for an as yet undisclosed reason and 379s are rumoured to be in the frame with some GWR 387s released to somebody rumoured to be the plan.  I wouldn't hold your breath though. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by DY444

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, DY444 said:

Flip side is there are several 8 and 10 car circuits running around South London off peak on weekdays that are virtually empty. 

 

Not as many as you may think!

 

Due to Southern ditching their 455 fleet (and the need to replace them with Elerctrostars) many London suburban services are now single 4 car or 5 car units all day. Yes off peak this might be OK but I have personally seen sardine can like 5 car units where people cannot physically get on board at some of the south London stations closer to the centre in the peaks.

 

Meanwhile the 313s along the south coast continually get rammed - particularly in nice weather or when events are happening in Brighton - but there is nothing to replace them with!

 

 

[John M Upton]

The blue one is prowling along the Coastway West today.  I am due to drive it later unfortunately...

 

Here's hoping it gets swapped a different 313 before four o'clock...

Edited July 25, 2022 by John M Upton

[Gwiwer]

Meanwhile back to the photos. 
 

Here’s an unidentified 377 in platform 5 at Portsmouth Harbour along with that thing next door 

 

 

 

[roythebus1]

10 hours ago, John M Upton said:

The blue one is prowling along the Coastway West today.  I am due to drive it later unfortunately...

 

Here's hoping it gets swapped a different 313 before four o'clock...

I got a drive of it when it was new at Kings Cross. Was it really that long ago? 1977!! Or was it 1976?

 

[John M Upton]

7 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I got a drive of it when it was new at Kings Cross. Was it really that long ago? 1977!! Or was it 1976?

 

 

1976 probably. 

 

As it turned out, the infamous blue one was noticeably less temperamental yesterday than it was when I drove it on heatwave Monday last week.

 

Still had the occasional hissy fit and the odd pop/bang from the line switches on starting though.

 

Lots of people out taking pictures and was passed by top and tail Class 73's twice!

[Gwiwer]

13 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I got a drive of it when it was new at Kings Cross. Was it really that long ago? 1977!! Or was it 1976?

 

They started in ‘76. Most were in service by ‘77 but 313011 was a later arrival. I first saw that one in traffic early in ‘78. At the time my daily commute was Harringay - Moorgate. 6-car trains usually rammed full in the peaks. That didn’t last as the “spark effect” wore off pretty quickly.