Third-Rail EMU Photos

[DY444]

48 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Part of the same family/concept, so maybe cheddar and camembert?!

 

Maybe.  I'm not entirely sure how to map two different generations of traction equipment to specific cheeses 🧀🥴

Edited February 2, 2023 by DY444

[Gwiwer]

7 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

Maybe.  I'm not entirely sure how to map two different generations of traction equipment to specific cheeses 🧀🥴

Very similar body design.  The rest is mostly different.  It depends what you want to preserve for posterity.  The 313s were the first fleet with the "pear-shaped" cross-section body but remained distinctly different from the later 507/508 and 314/315 fleets.  

 

They were built with customer-operated handles to initiate door opening unlike any other class.  These were unreliable in service and soon replaced with push-buttons but as those were a later modification the style and location differed to the other types.  

 

As built they were dual-voltage units from the start being intended solely for the "Great Northern Electrics" as BR branded the Moorgate suburban lines when electrified.  There was quite a significant "Spark effect" in that passengers swarmed onto the new - more frequent, faster, cleaner and less smelly (than the previous diesels) trains but this quickly faded away thanks in part to service unreliability.  It wasn't uncommon for a quarter of the evening peak service to be cancelled at times leading to severe overcrowding and the poor users of Harringay and Hornsey (of which I was then one) often bore the brunt with sometimes no trains calling there for an hour or more.  They should have had alternate trains stopping (anything to the Hertford Loop bar a couple of peak extras semi-fast to Gordon Hill) but the stoppers were the first to be caped.  

 

Trains which arrived at Alexandra Palace (Wood Green) in the up morning peak and which could then take no more passengers were sent fast to Finsbury Park.  

 

The fleet requirement dwindled and three-car trains instead of six became the norm for much of the day.  This eventually allowed a number of units to transfer to the Watford "DC" line and the North London Line with what became the Silverlink franchise.  These had their AC gear removed, because it wasn't needed at that time, and used as a source of spares.  Some went on to Southern when further service cuts and new stock took a toll on their workload.  The remaining dual voltage units came off the GN route when the 717s arrived.  

 

The 508s were delivered as four-car units to BR Southern Region (L&SE Metro) but were swiftly dispatched to Merseyside once the 455s started arriving. The trailers remained with SR (later NSE) and were inserted into the 455/7 units which were ordered as three-car and augmented in a tradition going back almost 100 years on the region.  They have remained hybrids ever since.  A handful of 508s returned south to the South Eastern franchise but saw little use.  As the 314s and 315s are all now withdrawn, the 313/2s, 507 and 508 fleets are about to be but the 455/7s are soldiering on because of the protracted delivery and commissioning issues with the 701s these former class 508 trailers will be the last of this generation of vehicles in traffic.  

 

From an operational aspect the 508 trailers are a pain.  They cannot be locked out if a need arises, their age and build means they have distorted slightly and the doors stick, the windows (full-size hoppers not the smaller class 455 ones) fall open and won't stay shut - or refuse to open in the heat - and the door buttons take several seconds longer to respond to a demand than the standard 455 ones.  

 

I shall not miss the 313s.  Not the other remaining vehicles of their family.  One 315 has been kept for use albeit in deepest rural Wales (along with some other "SR" stock now at Cynheidre) and the NRM has claimed 313201 but we'll have to wait and see what happens to it.  That should be enough.  

Edited February 2, 2023 by Gwiwer

[DY444]

45 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Very similar body design.  The rest is mostly different.  It depends what you want to preserve for posterity.  The 313s were the first fleet with the "pear-shaped" cross-section body but remained distinctly different from the later 507/508 and 314/315 fleets.  

 

They were built with customer-operated handles to initiate door opening unlike any other class.  These were unreliable in service and soon replaced with push-buttons but as those were a later modification the style and location differed to the other types.  

 

As built they were dual-voltage units from the start being intended solely for the "Great Northern Electrics" as BR branded the Moorgate suburban lines when electrified.  There was quite a significant "Spark effect" in that passengers swarmed onto the new - more frequent, faster, cleaner and less smelly (than the previous diesels) but this quickly faded away thanks in part to service unreliability.  It wasn't uncommon for a quarter of the evening peak service to be cancelled at times leading to severe overcrowding and the poor users of Harringay and Hornsey (of which I was then one) often bore the brunt with sometimes no trains calling there for an hour or more.  They should have had alternate trains stopping (anything to the Hertford Loop bar a couple of peak extras semi-fast to Gordon Hill) but the stoppers were the first to be caped.  

 

Trains which arrived at Alexandra Palace (Wood Green) in the up morning peak and which could then take no more passengers were sent fast to Finsbury Park.  

 

The fleet requirement dwindled and three-car trains instead of six became the norm for much of the day.  This eventually allowed a number of units to transfer to the Watford "DC" line and the North London Line with what became the Silverlink franchise.  These had their AC gear removed, because it wasn't needed at that time, and used as a source of spares.  Some went on to Southern when further service cuts and new stock took a toll on their workload.  The remaining dual voltage units came off the GN route when the 717s arrived.  

 

The 508s were delivered as four-car units to BR Southern Region (L&SE Metro) but were swiftly dispatched to Merseyside once the 455s started arriving. The trailers remained with SR (later NSE) and were inserted into the 455/9 units which were ordered as three-car and augmented in a tradition going back almost 100 years on the region.  They have remained hybrids ever since.  A handful of 508s returned south to the South Eastern franchise but saw little use.  As the 314s and 315s are all now withdrawn, the 313/2s are about to be but the 455/9s are soldiering on because of the protracted delivery and commissioning issues with the 701s these former class 508 trailers will be the last of this generation of vehicles in traffic.  

 

From an operational aspect the 508 trailers are a pain.  They cannot be locked out if a need arises, their age and build means they have distorted slightly and the doors stick, the windows (full-size hoppers not the smaller class 455 ones) fall open and won't stay shut - or refuse to open in the heat - and the door buttons take several seconds longer to respond to a demand than the standard 455 ones.  

 

I shall not miss the 313s.  Not the other remaining vehicles of their family.  One 315 has been kept for use albeit in deepest rural Wales (along with some other "SR" stock now at Cynheidre) and the NRM has claimed 313201 but we'll have to wait and see what happens to it.  That should be enough.  

 

Indeed.  One correction though, it's 455/7 that have the ex 508 trailer not 455/9

[phil_sutters]

This one I disinterred from a non-railway file while having a sort out!

 

[phil_sutters]

On 31/01/2023 at 22:28, lmsforever said:

Please not a 313 they are awful to look at and should be cut up.

They are less horrific looking than the ScotRail 385s with their huge snouts. 

 

[Darius43]

6 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

This one I disinterred from a non-railway file while having a sort out!

 

Bishopstone Station.  I remember rushing down those steps and heading to the seafront en route to my Grandparents’ place on Claremont  Road in the early 1980s  - passing on the way what used to be The Buckle pub.  I see the Mercury Motor Inn has gone as well.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

[phil_sutters]

1 hour ago, Darius43 said:

Bishopstone Station.  I remember rushing down those steps and heading to the seafront en route to my Grandparents’ place on Claremont  Road in the early 1980s  - passing on the way what used to be The Buckle pub.  I see the Mercury Motor Inn has gone as well.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

There are no pubs, hotels or guest houses on the seafront any more, I think. There are however several homes and apartment blocks for elderly people. Were the groynes still there when you visited. Now we have a shingle bank as our sea defence. That has to be reprofiled several times a year as the winds and waves shift the shingle along the beach to the Splash Point breakwater.

[phil_sutters]

In case I haven't mentioned it previously, I have made an album of my 313 photos 

 

[Darius43]

4 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

There are no pubs, hotels or guest houses on the seafront any more, I think. There are however several homes and apartment blocks for elderly people. Were the groynes still there when you visited. Now we have a shingle bank as our sea defence. That has to be reprofiled several times a year as the winds and waves shift the shingle along the beach to the Splash Point breakwater.

My Grandparents lived in Seaford from 1978 to 1997.  I remember the groynes on the beach and I was there when the promenade concrete slabs were dislodged by a big storm in the mid 1980s and the beach was subsequently raised by shingle pumped in from offshore, burying the groynes from view.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[phil_sutters]

3 hours ago, Darius43 said:

My Grandparents lived in Seaford from 1978 to 1997.  I remember the groynes on the beach and I was there when the promenade concrete slabs were dislodged by a big storm in the mid 1980s and the beach was subsequently raised by shingle pumped in from offshore, burying the groynes from view.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

I only once saw shingle being pumped in from a dredger. Now it is always done with articulated dump trucks, a bulldozer and bucket loaders.

[John M Upton]

Almost bowled!  313201 heads for Brighton and passes the new order, 377323 heading the other way at Southbourne this morning.

 

Latest from the 313 rumour mill is that the NRM are going to take Network Rail 313121 instead of 201.

 

The gas axe beckons...

[montyburns56]

504 461 Bowker Vale 1989 by Adrian Nicholls

 

 

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

504 461 Bowker Vale 1989 by Adrian Nicholls

 

 

A line under-represented in the photographic record.  Not hard to find views at Bury or Man Vic but very few in between. 

[John M Upton]

Still going, 313207 is actually one of the smarter looking ones still running at the moment and a couple have been hand bashed cleaned in the last ten days.

 

 

[John M Upton]

313207 is having Sunday off, snuggled down in Littlehampton Sidings:

 

[jbqfc]

701014 Clapham yard 11/02/23 will go into public service When?

 

[Gwiwer]

9 minutes ago, jbqfc said:

701014 Clapham yard 11/02/23 will go into public service When?

Once enough units have been accepted for traffic, sufficient drivers are trained, platform and other operational staff are briefed on any new requirements and any other operational requirements are met.  

 

I understand the cabs have now been accepted on at least some units and equally that some have reached sufficient fault-free miles in testing.  Some training of depot drivers has also taken place.  

 

SWR still intends to introduce them onto the Windsor line later this year (but are not saying how much later) followed by the Reading and Weybridge-via-Hounslow services.  Then onto the Hounslow rounders and after that they will start appearing on main-line suburban duties.  Probably well into next year before they do so however.  

 

52 of 60 701/0s have been sighted in this country but only 2 of 30 701/5s are known to be here which leaves a significant portion of the fleet still to be delivered.  Of those units delivered some are stored off-region, some at Eastleigh, others at Bournemouth, Feltham, Wimbledon and Strawberry Hill.  In fact anywhere that a 10-car unit can be parked out of the way.  They do change location at times.  701014 is one of those used for SWR depot driver training at present; all of those at Clapham Yard have moved in the past few days either on training or just swapping roads within the yard shunting via the washer road to keep them "warm".  

[John M Upton]

One 701 was dumped down Portsmouth & Southsea low level carriage sidings of all places a few weeks back.  It vanished overnight as mysteriously as it had appeared.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Here's one at BM depot, a week ago; think it's 701042.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

24 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

One 701 was dumped down Portsmouth & Southsea low level carriage sidings of all places a few weeks back.  It vanished overnight as mysteriously as it had appeared.

I saw a video on Facebook recently featuring one of the GBRf class 47s hauling a set down the Portsmouth Direct route to Fratton. Not sure if it was for training (I didn't think they would be operating down there) or simply to get it out of the way.

[Gwiwer]

32 minutes ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

Not sure if it was for training (I didn't think they would be operating down there

There is no plan for the 701s to run south of Guildford in traffic but they must be proven to run safely over all SWR's electrified routes.  That does not mean crews from Fratton, Bournemouth etc would ever be trained on them because emergency and e.c.s. moves can always be done with a pilot driver or (subject to contract) with a GBRf driver who signs the relevant routes as occurs now for all proving moves.  

[franciswilliamwebb]

 

Class 442 5-WES EMU 2413 at Eastleigh on 26/07/02 (my photo)

[John M Upton]

This mornings contribution from 313 land:

 

[Phil Mc]

On 19/02/2023 at 16:50, Gwiwer said:

 Of those units delivered some are stored off-region, some at Eastleigh, others at Bournemouth, Feltham, Wimbledon and Strawberry Hill.  In fact anywhere that a 10-car unit can be parked out of the way.

There was at least 3 units parked up in Marchwood sidings yesterday.

 

cheers,

Phil.

[montyburns56]

Class 504 Bury Bolton St 1979 by Graham Williams