Smart Meter = smart move?

[Sir TophamHatt]

Getting my smart meter installed in December (can't remember the exact date).

 

Decided to go ahead so they stop bugging me through email to get it done.  They're offering a free coffee - wow.  Perhaps I should have left it and maybe the stakes would have got bigger.

 

Not sure the little display thing is worth even turning on.

At the moment, no where to really put it.  Wonder if it can be battery powered...

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Getting my smart meter installed in December (can't remember the exact date).

 

Decided to go ahead so they stop bugging me through email to get it done.  They're offering a free coffee - wow.  Perhaps I should have left it and maybe the stakes would have got bigger.

 

Not sure the little display thing is worth even turning on.

At the moment, no where to really put it.  Wonder if it can be battery powered...

 

I doubt on its own the smart meter will save you money, but at least it will open up opportunities for better rates. Whether you act on it is up to you.

[hayfield]

200 watts is all my system has produced, the past 2 weeks has been awful. Much the same as last year 

[tigerburnie]

I too have finally given in to the bombardment of emails from my leccy provider, we get a new meter next week, I wonder what they would say if I asked for the old one in case I want to refit it later...........................................😎

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

I wonder what they would say if I asked for the old one in case I want to refit it later...........................................😎

 

They'd refer you to the label on the meter that says 'This meter is the property of <not you>'

[Trainshed Terry]

I had a smart meter installed in October, I switched on the storage heaters to make sure that they are working, but the heater in the living room has developed a fault

of Some description as it no longer holds the the date or time when I switch the heater of for a minute and switch it back on. It flashes red saying something is wrong.

 

And I think that it is out of guarantee.

 

Terry.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Trainshed Terry
spelling mistake.

[SHMD]

Sounds like a small button battery (to keep the Real Time Clock running) has gone flat.

Have you tried putting the Model of the heater, in to Google, along with the fault code to see what comes up?

 

 

Kev.

 

[hayfield]

7 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

I too have finally given in to the bombardment of emails from my leccy provider, we get a new meter next week, I wonder what they would say if I asked for the old one in case I want to refit it later...........................................😎

 

I think my smart meter is now 3 years old, cannot think of one thing negative about it. Its saved me time and probably me money when the rates went up. All actions were automatic. Plus allowed me to use a highly competitive product which requires the use of smart meters. 

[PhilH]

4 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I think my smart meter is now 3 years old, cannot think of one thing negative about it. Its saved me time and probably me money when the rates went up. All actions were automatic. Plus allowed me to use a highly competitive product which requires the use of smart meters. 

/\ /\ /\
Yep…

[Trainshed Terry]

2 hours ago, SHMD said:

Sounds like a small button battery (to keep the Real Time Clock running) has gone flat.

Have you tried putting the Model of the heater, in to Google, along with the fault code to see what comes up?

 

 

Kev.

 

 

I have changed the button battery and it has had no effect. I am going to phone the my energy provider tomorrow to see if they can help.

 

Terry.

[SHMD]

The right battery, the correct size, is it seated correctly - or the old favourite, is the new battery deader than the battery it is replacing?

Other than that, yes contact your supplier.

 

 

Kev.

[Michael Hodgson]

14 hours ago, SHMD said:

Sounds like a small button battery (to keep the Real Time Clock running) has gone flat.

Have you tried putting the Model of the heater, in to Google, along with the fault code to see what comes up?

 

 

Kev.

 

Would I be correct in thinking that the smart meter is a box of tricks connected to the consumer unit rather than this display unit, in which case what has gone wrong is probably only failure to display consumption data to the consumer but the supplier will still be getting the data they need to calculate bills accurately? 

[PaulCheffus]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Would I be correct in thinking that the smart meter is a box of tricks connected to the consumer unit rather than this display unit, in which case what has gone wrong is probably only failure to display consumption data to the consumer but the supplier will still be getting the data they need to calculate bills accurately? 

Hi

 

Usually but not always. Our supplier did an over the air update to our meters and the monitor stopped working plus the usage was not being uploaded to them. It took around four months to sort out as it was at the start of the pandemic in 2020 and required an engineer visit. We were switched back to manually uploading our readings for that period.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[SHMD]

9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Would I be correct in thinking that the smart meter is a box of tricks connected to the consumer unit rather than this display unit, in which case what has gone wrong is probably only failure to display consumption data to the consumer but the supplier will still be getting the data they need to calculate bills accurately? 

 

It's not about "calculating bills correctly" - existing meters should be doing that already.

No, it's about "them" knowing when you used the electricity during each day so that they can manipulate the populace by "instant pricing" to regulate demand - a stated governmental "aim" of smart meters*. ...but only when the user base is big enough so that their "manipulations" will have an effect quick enough during the day in real time.

("Smart Meters" are an extremely expensive way to achieve this - but allow external control too. Other countries use different simpler methods to achieve the same effect.)

 

The generating stations takes a long time to "ramp up" before producing electricity and a long time to "ramp down" afterwards - much longer than the short cyclic twin peaks (morning and evening) each day - so they have to stay "running" by burning carbon all the time.

So, outside the peak demand times, that "generating asset" is not providing anything anyone wants! This is classified as dreadfully wasteful environmentally wise - which is true, BUT it does allow the luxury of "usage on demand" by domestic users. (Do you want to lose this luxury? Don't just think of yourself - there are lots of situations where a family can not CHANGE from the peak demand model of the school run/commute.)

 

If these "peak demands" (twice a day) could be "encouraged" to be smaller by "incentivising" consumers into changing their behaviour by making "peak usage" more expensive, then (theoretically - but true) then less "carbon" would be burnt providing "base load".

 

 

No, Smart Meters* are not smart and they are not any more accurate than their (immediate) predecessors - they are just "data mining" you whilst charging you for the privilege.

 

In the mean time - enjoy the short term "incentives" benefits, because when the rest of us are forced onto the scheme then we will be all charged the "standard" rate(s) PLUS the added bonus of instant price changes PLUS paying for the extra layer of bureaucracy. Think petrol, hotel, airline, concert, etc priced demand pricing during high demand.

 

 

Kev.

 

* Smart Meters - Not smart at all, but are communicating and data logging devices - in  real time - to allow "city suits**" to manipulate the instant price to change your behaviour. 

 

** City suits - Money manipulating market men making tonnes of money off a your backs.

 

[APOLLO]

^^^^^^^

 

What SHMD says is correct.

Smart peak pricing coming soon, been talked about for years. User base needs to be big enough, I doubt it is just now, hence the big push.

 

I won't have them fitted until I have no option, which given the current (!!!) crisis will be sooner rather than later.

 

Brit15

[Michael Hodgson]

5 minutes ago, SHMD said:

 

The generating stations takes a long time to "ramp up" before producing electricity and a long time to "ramp down" afterwards - much longer than the short cyclic twin peaks (morning and evening) each day - so they have to stay "running" by burning carbon all the time.

So, outside the peak demand times, that "generating asset" is not providing anything anyone wants! This is classified as dreadfully wasteful environmentally wise - which is true, BUT it does allow the luxury of "usage on demand" by domestic users. (Do you want to lose this luxury? Don't just think of yourself - there are lots of situations where a family can not CHANGE from the peak demand model of the school run/commute.)

 

If these "peak demands" (twice a day) could be "encouraged" to be smaller by "incentivising" consumers into changing their behaviour by making "peak usage" more expensive, then (theoretically - but true) then less "carbon" would be burnt providing "base load".

...

5 minutes ago, SHMD said:

 

** City suits - Money manipulating market men making tonnes of money off a your backs.

 

I played a minor role in the privatisation which was led by John Wakeham & Margaret Thatcher.  Those who made money at the time didn't wear suits - futures and options traders were those glorified barrowboys from the East End wearing red braces and brightly coloured ice-cream salesmen type jackets, carrying brick-like mobile phones, and of course directors from the old regional Area Boards who led the managment buy-outs - there was an awful lot of senior staff poaching between the firms.  Originally there were to be two distinct types of company - Distributors (who would contract with end users) and Generators (who would own the power stations).

 

Forty of us (yes, in suits) would meet round a table in Gresham Street, all but two of us being consultants with no industry knowledge and representing one electricity company or another.  The two exceptions were one engineer from Eastern Electricity (and his dress code for the City was Hawaiian shirts and Bermuda shorts !) and a very talented physicist from Nuclear Electric who weren't even being sold off. 

 

Even in our technical ignorance we could foresee a number of problems (not just the consumer end of pricing) but we were implementing Government policy of introducing market competition and abolishing the CEGB monopoly.  The public were generally happy because they made a quick buck on the various share issues and so the Tories duly got re-elected.  We of course were contractually and legally prohibited from buying shares in any of the privatisations in order to avoid the slightest suspicion of insider dealing, even though in practice only a tiny handful of my colleagues could have seen anything at all price-sensitive.

 

We industry outsiders quickly learned from those who understood power supply that the time a generating station takes to ramp up/down depends on its type - coal being slower to raise steam than gas which in turn is slower than nuclear or pumped storage, and about demand forecasting and the Grid's resilience and transmission limitations, not to mention anticipated gamesmanship in the new industry dealing rooms.  And pumped storage is a carbon-efficient way of smoothing spikes and absorbing excess supply over demand.  So those who weren't fixated on political doctrines could see such issues coming.   You had to wonder about market prices being set using a series of systems each running on a single PC, using bids by market dealers in competitive auctions and which took account not only of forecast consumption, the price of gas or how much coal we've got and what gensets are out of service today but also probability formulae determined by a Cambridge mathematician, and data that includes the weather forecast and what's on telly tonight.  It was probably true that the CEGB was over-cautious and inefficient in some ways but they had kept this country largely self-sufficient in electricity and (at least until the miners' strike) had been successfully keeping the lights on.

 

 

 

And I too am not having a smart meter until I have to.  I don't want to be told you can only afford to turn the lights on in the middle of the night when you're asleep.  But it will come.

[hayfield]

I think many are simply missing the whole point of smart meters and wrongly blaming them for peoples own fears/predeceases. 

 

If real time pricing comes in it matters not whether you have a smart meter or not (those without will be defaulted into a higher price band

 

Whilst the meters themselves may not be either smart or save money, They certainly allow me the user to make smart decisions.

Its a known fact that they allow users to access the best rates

Secondly they produce data which the user can use to modify the wat ant time energy is accessed

Joining these trials (which are heavily subsidised) may seem a bit of fun, but shows how those of us who are able to modify the way we use energy to benefit others

Certainly the way I both buy and sell energy is now a lot smarter than I have ever been. I now get three times the fee for selling my surplus power than had I stayed with my previous supplier 

 

To me with energy being so expensive looking at every avenue at reducing costs seems the sensible route. 

[APOLLO]

Well we all (who are not on existing fixed rate tariffs) are all on the same price cap tariffs for both gas and electricity, with only small regional variations, so in the foreseeable future you can rule out smart meters allowing cheaper tariffs. There is (according to Martin Lewis on TV the other day) not one fixed term rate available in the UK that is under the price cap.

 

I honestly do not know or am even able to predict the future re this.

 

Most consumers also do not sell back electricity from home generation, nice to do if you can though. Most can't afford the capital upfront costs. 

 

Unfortunately engineers and customer oriented management have all been replaced with money oriented "suits" who have absolutely no regards for anything or anyone else.

 

Brit15

 

 

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

I think many are simply missing the whole point of smart meters and wrongly blaming them for peoples own fears/predeceases. 

 

If real time pricing comes in it matters not whether you have a smart meter or not (those without will be defaulted into a higher price band

 

Whilst the meters themselves may not be either smart or save money, They certainly allow me the user to make smart decisions.

Its a known fact that they allow users to access the best rates

Secondly they produce data which the user can use to modify the wat ant time energy is accessed

Joining these trials (which are heavily subsidised) may seem a bit of fun, but shows how those of us who are able to modify the way we use energy to benefit others

Certainly the way I both buy and sell energy is now a lot smarter than I have ever been. I now get three times the fee for selling my surplus power than had I stayed with my previous supplier 

 

To me with energy being so expensive looking at every avenue at reducing costs seems the sensible route. 

That sounds like the point of smart meters then is merely to get coerced in to using smart meters - the problem that they "solve" is one contrived to push people on to them. They don't actually do anything at all useful in their own right.

[Michael Hodgson]

20 minutes ago, Reorte said:

That sounds like the point of smart meters then is merely to get coerced in to using smart meters - the problem that they "solve" is one contrived to push people on to them. They don't actually do anything at all useful in their own right.

No.  Even though I won't have one until I have to, I'm afraid I do have to recognise that smart meters solve one problem.  They remove the logistical overhead of collecting meter readings by physical inspection, whether that's by paid meter readers or by the punters themselves.

 

The advertising campaign and incentive schemes are however intended to coerce people to fitting them.

[Reorte]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

No.  Even though I won't have one until I have to, I'm afraid I do have to recognise that smart meters solve one problem.  They remove the logistical overhead of collecting meter readings by physical inspection, whether that's by paid meter readers or by the punters themselves.

 

That doesn't come close to crossing the threshold of being reasonably regarded as a problem IMO. Meter readers haven't been a crippling thing holding back business, and taking my own readings is a trivial, infrequent task.

 

Plus in general I am completely and utterly against automating jobs away (unless they're so tedious or dangerous that no-one really wants to do them). We're not in pre industrial times when as a society we struggled to produce enough to barely survive with almost all our labour working flat out just on the basics; automation is (usually) solving yesterday's already solved problems. Nowadays it just looks like trying to find new ways of being chap and nasty, and / or part of the race to the bottom.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Reorte

[57xx]

6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Even though I won't have one until I have to, I'm afraid I do have to recognise that smart meters solve one problem.  They remove the logistical overhead of collecting meter readings by physical inspection, whether that's by paid meter readers or by the punters themselves.

 

That is a complete strawman. I honestly cannot remember the last time a meter reader came round. it must be at least 5-6 years now if not more. I have been submitting readings online all that time with no problem. It's far from a "logistical overhead".

[boxbrownie]

47 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

That is a complete strawman. I honestly cannot remember the last time a meter reader came round. it must be at least 5-6 years now if not more. I have been submitting readings online all that time with no problem. It's far from a "logistical overhead".

We’ve had one of our meters read at least four times this year, we use so little gas in the annexe they don’t believe our readings so send a man around to read them, f*****g waste of their time and mine, as I have to go and unlock the gate for him to read it.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

We’ve had one of our meters read at least four times this year, we use so little gas in the annexe they don’t believe our readings

 

I'm surprised we haven't had any push back from from the supplier about our smart meter. We had it fitted at the same time we got rid of the EV so from day one it's been showing drastically lower useage than they saw previously.

[SHMD]

9 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

Most consumers also do not sell back electricity from home generation, nice to do if you can though. Most can't afford the capital upfront costs. 

 

Unfortunately engineers and customer oriented management have all been replaced with money oriented "suits" who have absolutely no regards for anything or anyone else.

 

 

While I agree whole heartily with "most consumers do not sell back electricity... Most can't afford the capital..."

I would also propose that most properties aren't suitable to generate electricity either.

 

The second point I almost totally agree with, I'm an engineer and I put the customer first!

 

 

Kev.