Smart Meter = smart move?

[JJGraphics]

Data is collected half-hourly. From this it is simple to discover when households are regularly empty. Criminals will pay for this information. They probably won't even need to hack your meter. Human nature being what it is, a bung to someone in the data centre gives them all they need.

 

 

Another suggestion that demonstrates clearly that these so-called "smart" systems are not smart at all!

 

Until data security is at 100% on these systems, and it probably never will be due to it not being cost-effective to make it so, as Mike says, a bung to someone in a data centre is all that is needed to collect info on whose property is not occupied and when.

 

Interestingly, where I grew up, "smart" usually described someone who was cocky and over-confident . . .

Edited April 25, 2017 by JJGraphics

[Loconuts]

Data is collected half-hourly. From this it is simple to discover when households are regularly empty. Criminals will pay for this information. They probably won't even need to hack your meter. Human nature being what it is, a bung to someone in the data centre gives them all they need.

 

Smart meters not only send Data they also receive Data. As for criminals paying for the information, all they have to do is monitor the meter transmissions as they do at present in getting Data from your WiFi transmissions. Sit outside your house with a laptop and hack into your router. 

[JJGraphics]

Smart meters not only send Data they also receive Data. As for criminals paying for the information, all they have to do is monitor the meter transmissions as they do at present in getting Data from your WiFi transmissions. Sit outside your house with a laptop and hack into your router. 

 

 

Smart meters are completely separate from WiFi and use mobile phone technology. It is not (as) easy to hack into that, but no doubt someone in the criminal fraternity will find an easy way of doing so.

 

The real concern here is about the possibility of criminals acquiring metering data that shows when your house is unoccupied, for example the times during which you are out at work or if you are on holiday, giving them the chance to "visit" your home with less chance of being intercepted.

[Guest]

Smart meters are completely separate from WiFi and use mobile phone technology. It is not (as) easy to hack into that, but no doubt someone in the criminal fraternity will find an easy way of doing so.

 

 

Google 'femto cell hack' for more information

 

This is where IOT devices often fall over on security. If they fail to encrypt connections and verify certificates they're vulnerable to man in the middle attacks.

[Jub45565]

Data is collected half-hourly. From this it is simple to discover when households are regularly empty. Criminals will pay for this information. They probably won't even need to hack your meter. Human nature being what it is, a bung to someone in the data centre gives them all they need.

Not necessarily, as there are other ways tp power the house during daylight hours which dont suck power from the grid. Likewise there are plenty of things to do which use no power.

 

I'm not saying that it isnt a very real issue, which the manufacturers need to work to prevent, but there is more data out there than people have time to process & make useable for their own purposes.

[JJGraphics]

Google 'femto cell hack' for more information

 

This is where IOT devices often fall over on security. If they fail to encrypt connections and verify certificates they're vulnerable to man in the middle attacks.

 

 

IoT devices are mostly WiFi-based relying on a home router for their operation and are subject to all the usual WiFi hacking possibilities such as a "man-in-the-middle" attack if they are not properly secured. We are now finding out that quite a few of these devices are not secure at all.

 

Most attacks of the "femtocell" variety used against mobile devices actually require software to be installed on the target device which then relays the required information to the hacker via a slave server. The potential "payback" for the effort needed to instal that sort of hacking software on a "smart meter" would probably not be worth it to a hacker and it may not be technically possible anyway. Time will tell!

[Mike Buckner]

Not necessarily, as there are other ways tp power the house during daylight hours which dont suck power from the grid. Likewise there are plenty of things to do which use no power.

 

 

99% of people will have devices on trickle consumption when absent. This will show in the half-hourly usage stats - as will people consuming nothing at all. It's a reliable indicator of absence.

 

 

I'm not saying that it isnt a very real issue, which the manufacturers need to work to prevent, but there is more data out there than people have time to process & make useable for their own purposes.

 

 

A simple program would filter the dataset and print out the times/vacancies in your area. Computers make short work of such tasks - it would take less than a minute.

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

You don't need any of that information with some people, just monitor Facebook to see how many people post pictures of themselves with the caption for example in Spain for two weeks.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[knottyAl]

With reference to burglars needing sophisticated data from your Smartmeter.....many opportunist thieves just walk up and down your street, and spot the soft target house: Open windows,unlocked garages,handy unlocked ladders etc. They want easy pickings,not complex hacking!

[Mike Riley]

I think most burglars prefer to work at night.  Unless you have night storage heating or something like that, the current draw is no different whether your are asleep with all the lights off or on holiday.

[PatB]

Years ago I spent a lot of time pounding the pavements of Bristol's more affluent suburbs putting leaflets through letterboxes. It wasn't hard to tell which houses were occupied and which weren't, even to a casual leafleteer without an ulterior motive. I doubt if any additional risk of being targeted because your smart meter says you're out would be objectively measurable.

[PaulCheffus]

99% of people will have devices on trickle consumption when absent. This will show in the half-hourly usage stats - as will people consuming nothing at all. It's a reliable indicator of absence.

 

 

 

 

A simple program would filter the dataset and print out the times/vacancies in your area. Computers make short work of such tasks - it would take less than a minute.

Hi

 

You don't have to have the smart meter upload every thirty minutes you can choose when its installed to have it set to daily. This applies to British Gas not sure about the other providers.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Reorte]

You don't have to have the smart meter upload every thirty minutes you can choose when its installed to have it set to daily. This applies to British Gas not sure about the other providers.

What need is there for daily readings? I don't see any point in more often than monthly.

[PaulCheffus]

What need is there for daily readings? I don't see any point in more often than monthly.

Hi

 

I have no idea but that is the only two choices you get thirty minutes or daily.

 

Cheers

 

POaul

[Norm81]

Based on this topic and some further research I told them "no thanks" as I don't see any benefit for us in having one. I'll just continue to follow my wife around the house switching the lights off after her...

[Scottish Modeller]

After (yet another) dispute with my electricity provider about billing mistakes I am going back to my old supplier. They are offering me a Smart Meter which - apparently - will bring joy, happiness and massive financial gain to my hitherto joyless, unhappy, poverty ridden existence.

 

But will it?

 

Anybody got one of these things, and found it a boon?

 

Anybody got one and wish they didn't?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

 

Even the threat of moving suppier and getting a Smart Meter was enough to make my supplier finally accept that our account was in credit to the tune of £175 and had been for at least the last 4 years!

 

We got a refund from them but they would not compensate us for the error - so we are going to change supplier anyway.

 

Thanks

[Trog]

What need is there for daily readings? I don't see any point in more often than monthly.

 

My guess is so that they can proportion out power used before and after a price rise on your bill. Daily readings would give them the flexibility to increase the price on any day they wanted to.

[Guest]

IOT privacy issues you never saw coming:

 

The way you tug on bog-roll is uniquely identifiable.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/15/oilet_paper_gyroscopes_for_science/

[Tony Davis]

In an email I got today from a cheapest-diesel-within-5-miles site there was an article about "smart petrol pumps". It said a North European firm where to supply British petrol stations with meters that would enable them to change the price of petrol according to demand.

 

It just keeps getting better....................

[57xx]

In an email I got today from a cheapest-diesel-within-5-miles site there was an article about "smart petrol pumps". It said a North European firm where to supply British petrol stations with meters that would enable them to change the price of petrol according to demand.

 

It just keeps getting better....................

 

I guess they'll use the same "algorithm"  whereby they have instant overnight prices rise when oil goes up and then when queried about it say "it's costing us more to replace our stocks", then when challenged about being very slow to reduce prices when the oil cost drops "we bought our stocks when the oil prices were high so we have to cover that"

[Tony Davis]

Just re-read the article and an as yet unnamed supermarket has already signed a deal.

 

https://www.petrolprices.com/fuel-to-cost-more-at-peak-times/ is the link if you are interested.

[SHMD]

Thank you gents for a most informative, and timely, thread on “smart” meterage.

 

Some time ago I was contacted by my supplier and had been informed that they had arranged for an engineer to come and install a smart meter at my home – all for my benefit and at no cost too!

 

Of course, I ignored this but their automated communications went through their preprogrammed sequence, of greater and greater cajoling and enticements, until they got to the point where they had exhausted all the standard responses and a (presumably) real human contacted me with only 3 days to go before the said engineer was due to arrive to improve my life.

 

Not being in the country at the time, I easily deflected the engineers appointment until later. I have already forgotten when this is due to take place but it is a nice long time into the future. This has allowed me to peruse this very thread to learn the true pros and cons of smart meterage, from both the consumer/supplier point of view, but also to the more insidious issue of how the meters data may be used in the future, and how pricing may change to take advantage of “instant” demand/pricing/control ability that this simple new technology will allow others to exploit (suppliers, governments, criminals, market traders, etc).

 

I have decided to not voluntarily agree to have my/their (who's?) meter “upgraded” to a smart one although, I concede, I will be forced to have one in the future anyway.

 

In preparation for this I am making plans to redecorate the gas cupboard with nice shade of bakofoil and have started to vary the dispensing of toilet paper with every visit to the bathroom.

 

 

Once again gents, thanks for such an illuminating and useful thread.

 

 

Kev.

 

[PatB]

In an email I got today from a cheapest-diesel-within-5-miles site there was an article about "smart petrol pumps". It said a North European firm where to supply British petrol stations with meters that would enable them to change the price of petrol according to demand.

 

It just keeps getting better....................

 

Just re-read the article and an as yet unnamed supermarket has already signed a deal.

 

https://www.petrolprices.com/fuel-to-cost-more-at-peak-times/ is the link if you are interested.

 

Interesting. Here in Western Australia petrol retailers are required by law to maintain a fixed price over a 24 hour period. Moreover, this price must be notified in advance via the FuelWatch website. The system works very well and is quite helpful if you really want to find the cheapest available fuel. The Eastern States do not have such regulations in place and their fuel prices can go up and down like something that goes up and down a lot.

 

Mind you, we also have cyclic variations in petrol prices (diesel seems to be more stable) that supposedly follow international factors. Funnily enough, though, prices always seem to be highest on days of high demand (pension payment day, Fridays before public holidays etc.) What a coincidence .

[westie7]

Ive just had a letter from Eon saying "I'll be Getting a smart meter"

Please call us they say.....

 

Think I'll leave it a bit

[Robert]

So here's a question for you all.

 

My parents had a call from their provider last week, and were told they were having smart meters fitted for both gas and electricity.

 

There is no mobile phone signal where they live - so how will the thing work?  I presume the provider must know there is no coverage in the area - it is a not insignificantly sized village so they can't be the first.

 

Sometimes "smart" isn't better - "simple" often is.