Penmaenpool (Llyn Penmaen)

[Simond]

Paul

 

Templot...

 

Best

Simon

[Focalplane]

Paul

Templot...

Best

Simon

Simon

 

I have used Templot when building my own track for Shipston on Stour and it was great once I got the hang of it. I am now way back down the learning curve and have found that Anyrail does a good job with Peco track components. I have been working on the full version today and have found making curves a lot easier than I had thought. Reading the manual does help! I will show some results later.

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

Here is the latest iteration:

 

 

The dashed tracks are hidden (below the scenic area).

 

The crossovers at the doorway (hinged to lift up) allow trains in either direction to circulate or pass under the scenic area into the two fiddle yards, representing Ruabon and Barmouth.  The turntable was previously at the Barmouth end but there is more room at the other end of the room.  I can make the Ruabon fiddle yard sidings longer as I have a hand built C&L 3 way point.

 

The scissor crossing under the scenic area will be custom built and will need to be protected electrically to avoid collisions.  (Note to Simon - Templot would be useful for this!)

 

Although not shown there is the option to connect the two fiddle yards under the scenic area to shuttle trains from one to the other without passing through Penmaenpool station.  This would also allow two trains to run independently (always useful when grandchildren visit!)

 

The inclines are probably OK.  The line down to the Ruabon fiddle yard will be covered by a hill through which the scenic line is in a cutting.  I need to do some measuring to calculate the gradients.

 

The red lines show the approximate limits of the baseboard edges, the black lines show where the scenic area stops.  The fiddle yards will be lower than the scenic area and will not be floodlit during operating sessions.

 

The room is 7.4m by 4.4m and all curves are no less than 1.8m radius.  This will allow any locomotive to run on the layout.

 

Comments, as always, are most welcome!

 

Paul

[Andrew P]

Looks like an interesting Plan Paul, not at all what I was expecting.

[Jintyman]

Here is the latest iteration:

 

Penmaenpool2.jpg

 

The dashed tracks are hidden (below the scenic area).

 

The crossovers at the doorway (hinged to lift up) allow trains in either direction to circulate or pass under the scenic area into the two fiddle yards, representing Ruabon and Barmouth.  The turntable was previously at the Barmouth end but there is more room at the other end of the room.  I can make the Ruabon fiddle yard sidings longer as I have a hand built C&L 3 way point.

 

The scissor crossing under the scenic area will be custom built and will need to be protected electrically to avoid collisions.  (Note to Simon - Templot would be useful for this!)

 

Although not shown there is the option to connect the two fiddle yards under the scenic area to shuttle trains from one to the other without passing through Penmaenpool station.  This would also allow two trains to run independently (always useful when grandchildren visit!)

 

The inclines are probably OK.  The line down to the Ruabon fiddle yard will be covered by a hill through which the scenic line is in a cutting.  I need to do some measuring to calculate the gradients.

 

The red lines show the approximate limits of the baseboard edges, the black lines show where the scenic area stops.  The fiddle yards will be lower than the scenic area and will not be floodlit during operating sessions.

 

The room is 7.4m by 4.4m and all curves are no less than 1.8m radius.  This will allow any locomotive to run on the layout.

 

Comments, as always, are most welcome!

 

Paul

 

 

I like it Paul.

If I was going to say one thing, it would be, why don't you turn the crossing on the lower level into an single outside slip so you could actually have two full circuits that can be operated independently.

In other words, join the two feeder lines.  Well I know what I mean!!!!

 

Good luck with the 'Railway Room and attached House'

 

Jinty

[Focalplane]

I like it Paul.

If I was going to say one thing, it would be, why don't you turn the crossing on the lower level into an single outside slip so you could actually have two full circuits that can be operated independently.

In other words, join the two feeder lines.  Well I know what I mean!!!!

 

Good luck with the 'Railway Room and attached House'

 

Jinty

 

David

 

I am with you on this:

 

 

I drew this up while on the ferry last night.  Not exactly a single slip, though, is it!  Blame the weather, it was blowing a Force 8/9 gale.

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

The railway room is now ours, as is the attached house.  Everyone at the notaire's office seemed very happy.  Afterwards, we drove back to the village and delivered a few boxes.

 

As is usually the case, an empty house always shows up its blemishes - in this case a fair amount of emulsion paint will be needed before we will be entirely happy.

 

The home cinema will need proper lighting and the inner door re-hung but any additional work is probably going to have to wait a while.  But as you can see from the changing track layout concepts, that may be just as well.  And I now have room to spread out my tools and keep a few projects running simultaneously.

 

I will show some photos in the next few days as a beginning of a diary.

 

Paul

[Andrew P]

Congratulations Paul.

[Jintyman]

Great news Paul.

All the best

 

Jinty

[Focalplane]

Went to Leroy Merlin this afternoon and did not buy plywood - white paint is the priority!  In preparation for mega purchases of timber I did, however, apply for a "Maison Carte" which promises discounts in the future.

 

We'll get there eventually!

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

Here is a quick snap of some of the rolling stock boxes stacked on what were the DVD shelves at the rear of the previous owners' home cinema.

 

As you can see, the room is indeed cinema dark with only subdued lighting.  The walls are lined with acoustic material which should "deaden" the sound of trains and DCC sound fitted locos.  I am hoping this will be a positive effect.  Only time will tell.

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Focalplane

[Focalplane]

As we near the end of January, a quick update on the railway room.

 

No construction has started but a lot of thought has been put into the new lighting system.  We are off to England soon for a few weeks and when we return this work will be put in the hands of an electrician.

 

I have also been measuring up the planned three level layout plan and working out where the top of the L-Girder base needs to be in order to have the upper level (visible) at the right viewing height.  Choice of baseboard materials has also been determined (no MDF!) and a semi-modular design for the support frames to which the L-Girders will be attached.  The first side to be built will be the scenic section opposite the entry door.  This also contains the area for the three levels.

 

While in the UK it will be an opportunity to buy some PECO flex track.  Sadly they have just raised their prices.

 

Paul

[Andrew P]

 

As we near the end of January, a quick update on the railway room.

 

No construction has started but a lot of thought has been put into the new lighting system.  We are off to England soon for a few weeks and when we return this work will be put in the hands of an electrician.

 

I have also been measuring up the planned three level layout plan and working out where the top of the L-Girder base needs to be in order to have the upper level (visible) at the right viewing height.  Choice of baseboard materials has also been determined (no MDF!) and a semi-modular design for the support frames to which the L-Girders will be attached.  The first side to be built will be the scenic section opposite the entry door.  This also contains the area for the three levels.

 

While in the UK it will be an opportunity to buy some PECO flex track.  Sadly they have just raised their prices.

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul, I'm looking forward to some construction pics mate.

[Focalplane]

Hi Paul, I'm looking forward to some construction pics mate.

 

Hi Andy

 

I am looking forward to taking some photos!  Today I took a length of 2" x 1" and marked off the various layout heights according to the latest plans.  This stick will be very useful in constructing the L-Girders.  The scenic area will be at a height of 1.25m above floor level which seems to be ideal for Gauge O and was the result of a consensus opinion on the Gauge O Guild forum.

 

I also called Marcway and found out that their scissor crossing is "only" 32" long, perfect to mount on the hinged lifting panel in the doorway.  It is rather expensive but the space saving will allow the various inclines to be slightly gentler than thought.  The crossover will not be in the scenic area so simple surface mounted point motors will be used - Tortoises mounted below would create potential headaches for those ducking under!

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

This afternoon I paid a visit to Huws Gray (builders merchants) in Porthmadog and bought 20 pieces of 1.2 meter long 2" x 2" planed red fir.  These will be the "legs" for the first part of Penmaenpool's L Girder base.

 

Why buy them in North Wales when the layout will be in Southern France?  Well, the simple truth is that not all builders merchants know much about selecting and storing timber and it has been my experience that Huys Gray actually know what they are doing.  The 20 legs won't be enough for the complete layout, but I have other luggage to carry so that was my somewhat arbitrary limit.

 

The staff were most helpful.  We had an interesting discussion about the present state of quality plywood.  Although their 12mm finished ply looked good (and was properly stored (flat)) they were not that impressed with it.  It is almost certainly better than much of what I have seen, but there is no point my buying any - they won't fit in my 2008!

 

Paul

[Focalplane]

Now I have the Marcway scissor crossing the big question is how it will be operated and wired.  The crossing is going to be positioned on the lifting "bridge" in the doorway to the railway room.  This may seem strange but the doorway is the best location for several reasons, not the least being the design of the inclines and the fact that the crossing will be the only place where both continuous ovals are at the same elevation.

 

Last night - well into the night as I could not sleep - I did some research and found this entry by Clive Mortimer:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/86612-home-made-scissor-crossing-and-control/?p=1812019

 

Clive is a frequent contributor to several threads I follow and I have come to value his advice.

 

I plan to use four Tortoises with the various sections wired up as Clive has shown.  The two motors for each crossover will be controlled by one lever as he suggests.  There is the risk of having both crossovers "live" and I may well add some safety "dead" sections either side of the crossover to prevent an almighty collision, but as I will be the sole operator of what is a single track railway "with tokens" this should not be a real problem.  In the hands of a group of operators then the safety net would probably be essential.

 

The crossover will be used much of the time to direct traffic into the two fiddle yards, using the outer continuous circuit.  This will be for the "correct" timetabled operation rather than just playing trains with the grandchildren when the two continuous ovals can be employed.

 

I have considered using servos (e.g. the Peco system) but have chosen the simpler and probably more robust Tortoise approach.  Frog juicers are another device to consider but as I understand it they can be added later if it is justified.

 

As always, comments are welcomed!  Paul

[Focalplane]

I just realized that the latest iteration of the track plan has not been posted on RMWeb (it is on the Gauge O Guild forum)  Here is the new plan:

 

 

The outer oval and feeds to the two fiddle yards is the major change, allowing the two fiddle yards to be at different heights.  The complex part of the design is shown here:

 

 

The elevations added hopefully explain what is going on!

 

Edit to add that the heavier dashed lines are all hidden.

 

Paul

Edited February 14, 2018 by Focalplane

[Focalplane]

I recently posted some information relevant to the Ruabon-Barmouth Line on Coachmann's Carrog thread and I should probably repeat some of it here.

 

Carrog and Penmaenpool share the line in common and Coachmann's new project also shares the same gauge and therefore there is bound to be some common ground with the choice of stock, etc.

 

Although I enjoy building kits the problem facing me is one of time, so RTR locos and stock have to come into the equation.  There are exciting new developments in Gauge O stock options from those companies who have branched into 7mm - Dapol, Heljan, Minerva etc.  The quality of their offerings and the pricing are both going to do a lot for Gauge O modelling.

 

Some of the upcoming offerings include the Large Prairie (61xx) and Mogul (43xx) from Heljan and the Small Prairie from Dapol/Lionheart.  As I already have a 14XX, a 57XX and am half way through building a 74xx, the smaller tank engines are well catered for though similar RTR offerings would have been just as good as the locos I already have.

 

Although I have a nostalgic history with the Large Prairies, I have yet to see a photo of one on the Barmouth Line.  Later Standards prove that they could have been appropriate locos but as far as I can tell they would have been very rare when the line was under Western Region control.  Their main use was on suburban services and with their rapid acceleration with 8 coaches they were well suited to that job.  So I will pass on the Heljan Large Prairie.  Instead I will opt for the 45xx Small Prairie which should be available soon(ish).  45xx class locos were certainly used on the Cambrian main line, even assigned to pull the northern portion of the Cambrian Coast Express from Dovey Junction to Pwllheli.

 

The Heljan Mogul is a definite for Penmaenpool.  In fact I think two would be appropriate!  The Heljan model version 2 is an appropriate model for the late 1950s and I have a particular prototype in mind.  But most Western Moguls by then were of the later build lots, not covered by Heljan.  One big difference would be the presence of a side cab window on the later series.  So the second mogul could be a kit build.  Talking to David Andrews recently he said he wished he had developed a kit but decided against it.

 

And I recently confirmed my interest in one of David's summer releases, the Dukedog.  This will have to be 9017 as I remember copping it inside Oswestry Works.  Dukedogs were often brought out for specials (there are lots of photos of these specials but I doubt if they were in every day use).  A Dukedog in front of a Mogul would make a fine sight!

 

Coachmann made an interesting comment about the choice of locomotives and why some of us want to accurately represent the trains of our chosen period.  If I may quote:

 

"With me, I choose a 'period' and then set about creating a sense of geographical place and railway identity. This happens long before any locos and rolling stock are added."

 

I suppose my philosophy is almost the same:

 

"For me, though, I choose a location,then a period.  Only then do I think about the locos and stock."

 

Paul

[Andrew P]

Sounds like some nice Stock coming your way over the next 12 or so Months Paul.

[Simond]

I have a similar philosophy, I have created a back-story, with some roots in reality, and have been collecting & building stock and scenic details to fit my chosen era, and, in so much as is possible, location.

 

There was a discussion on one of the fora about what stock people choose to run, with a response of “it may be ‘wrong’, but it’s my Railway, and I’ll run what I like, Rule 1”, which is entirely fair of course, but my choice is to limit myself to things that fit the storyline - and I have found that in general, this has been more rewarding than frustrating.

 

I have a Warren Shepard mogul kit in the cupboard. Later this year, perhaps.

 

And yes, I know that the Duchess doesn’t belong!

Best

Simon

[Focalplane]

Simon

 

Duchesses always belong, though I have to admit I never called them by that name. Obviously a Republican at heart. Semis were the term most often heard at Tamworth, though none of them were by then.

 

I am sorely tempted by the Finney7 Princess Coronation kit.

 

One option we always have is to turn a layout into a heritage railway. Carrog already has that distinction and most of it is quite appropriate either way.

 

Paul

Edited February 14, 2018 by Focalplane

[Focalplane]

Sounds like some nice Stock coming your way over the next 12 or so Months Paul.

Hi Andy

 

Yes, I hope so. Heljan do keep putting back their dates, though.

 

Glad to see you getting better by the day!

 

Paul

[Marshall5]

Hi Paul, re your post 246 may I make a couple of comments concerning suitable motive power for Penmaenpool?  The LMR didn't take over until 1963 so in your late 50's time period it was very much 'business as usual' with only the Standard 2 2-6-0's (Machynlleth had half a dozen from 1953) to break up an otherwise GWR monopoly. A DJH standard 2 in green would look most appropriate on shed at Penmaenpool as many photos show one there. By 1959 Machynlleth only had 2 of the 45xx, the rest were 4575 class with the larger tanks and they were replaced by 82xxx from 1960 onwards. You are quite correct about the moguls - they were nearly all 63xx and therefore not as produced by Heljan apart from 5399 which, from 1957, had the features of an earlier 53xx as per my post in the Heljan 00 prairie/mogul thread.

Glad you found a copy of Coastlines of the Cambrian Railways - I've found mine most informative. Keep up the good work.

Ray.

[Simond]

Paul

 

responding to your post 244, Clive's advice seems sound, I'm not a fan of juicers, as whilst they clearly work, and save a little time, they seem an expense that is unnecessary - the tortoises will provide switching for free, and should it fail, you can swap to the other switch or add a diode-controlled relay for much less than the cost of a juicer.

 

Clive makes an interesting point about setting both roads to "X" rather than one "I" and one "/" or vice versa.  Of course, if you have conflicting train movements, anything other than "I I" will cause, or at least, permit, a crash, setting both roads to "X" would pose some conflicting frog voltages.  Some other means of preventing a crash (such as not driving two locomotives towards the scissors, or preventing this from being set up) is perhaps to be considered

 

best

Simon

Edited February 15, 2018 by Simond

[Focalplane]

Hi Paul, re your post 246 may I make a couple of comments concerning suitable motive power for Penmaenpool?  The LMR didn't take over until 1963 so in your late 50's time period it was very much 'business as usual' with only the Standard 2 2-6-0's (Machynlleth had half a dozen from 1953) to break up an otherwise GWR monopoly. A DJH standard 2 in green would look most appropriate on shed at Penmaenpool as many photos show one there. By 1959 Machynlleth only had 2 of the 45xx, the rest were 4575 class with the larger tanks and they were replaced by 82xxx from 1960 onwards. You are quite correct about the moguls - they were nearly all 63xx and therefore not as produced by Heljan apart from 5399 which, from 1957, had the features of an earlier 53xx as per my post in the Heljan 00 prairie/mogul thread.

Glad you found a copy of Coastlines of the Cambrian Railways - I've found mine most informative. Keep up the good work.

Ray.

Ray

 

Many thanks for the above, I think I will have a good prototype representation, mainly GWR but one Ivatt mogul with 89A shed code. The class was often seen at Penmaenpool, in fact more common in photos than the 78xxx Class 2 Standards which seemed to be restricted to the Cambrian main line.

 

I am not sure how relevant Machynlleth locos would be on the Ruabon-Barmouth line, but clearly locos could and did go all over North Wales. I tend to go for Croes Newydd locos as Penmaenpool was a 84J sub shed.

 

I visited Penmaenpool today to take photos in winter sunshine and had a long chat with the bridge keeper. He helped restore and modify the signal box and has the bobby’s desk in his office. Ex GWR and heavily used!

 

I will post sone photos later.

 

Paul