Replacing Wheels of Mainline 16' Brake Van B.R.

[flockandroll]

Second time poster needing some advice please...

 

I want to replace the wheels on my Mainline brake van. From reading this 2011 post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/39562-mainline-and-airfix-wagons-replacement-wheels/

I expected replacement Bachmann wagon wheels to drop straight in, but they don't. The plastic Palitoy originals have rounded ends on the axles, the metal Bachmann wheels have points and the axle is about 1mm longer. They will fit in, but hardly turn and push the axle boxes outward.

 

So is it best to...

 

A) use a file to carefully round off the axle points

B) attempt to use a small drill bit to deepen the holes in the axle boxes

C) as B but add axle bushes

D) use a different type of metal wheel

E) something else I've not thought off

 

This is a practice for replacing all plastic wheels on my rolling stock (most of which will be Mainlline) so any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

[Phil Bullock]

Axle lengths do vary!

 

Getting rid of plastic wheels is the best thing you can do to improve running - much less grot on the rails

 

Suggest you start off with B and continue with C if B doesn't work

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[stovepipe]

It might be worth fitting the new wheels, and then pressing both sides in while turning the wheels, in effect using the pin point ends as mini-drills. I've successfully done this on Mainline wagons with Hornby replacement wheels.

[DCB]

Have you tried to fit the replacement wheels to the existing axle?  I am assuming plastic wheels on steel axles and steel wheels on plastic bushes on steel axle as per my old Mainline wagons.

[JZ]

I have a tool called 'The Tool' that I bought many years ago. It has a plain end and a cutting end. It fits between the axle boxes and you just rotate it. It's meant for when you have tightness on the axle and being the correct length, you cannot over cut. In your case, do a little each way round. I have seen them for sale recently, but can't remember where. I'm sure others will know.

[Phil Bullock]

That sounds like a wagon tuner IIRC but I cant find any further info!

 

There was also this....

 

http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/RTR%20Drill.pdf

 

which would be ideal

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[steve1]

you need a Truck Turner.

 

Look on this page --> http://www.wizardmodels.co.uk/FrameSetShop.php?DM=wizabout

 

steve

you need a Truck Turner.

 

Look on this page --> http://www.wizardmodels.co.uk/FrameSetShop.php?DM=wizabout

 

This does the same job. Absolutely invaluable!

 

steve

 

 

steve

Edited May 7, 2017 by steve1

[Il Grifone]

First Welcome to RMweb!

 

Don't round off the axles - this will 'work', but will not give the best results.

 

The best solution (IMHO) is steel pin-point axles running in brass* bearings. The second best has plastic bearings, but the success of this will depend on the plastic, For example the old Trix stock from the sixties will run away on surfaces that look perfectly level. A pencil can be used to add a layer of graphite for lubrication.

 

The 'standard' British 4mm axle is 26mm long , 2mm in diameter and has a 60° angle to the pinpoint. This runs in brass bearings again 2mm in diameter and designed to fit in axleguards with the inside faces 24mm apart. However not all axles or bearings (Romford bearings for example) conform to this specification. The standard American axle (favoured by Bachmann) is one inch in length (25.4mm) and Lima are 24.5mm (Continental H0).

 

I usually drill out the axleboxes with a 2mm bit in a pin vice (available cheaply on eBay) to take the bearings. Most plastic underframes will accept the misuse of bending out the axleguards slightly to do this, but don't bend them more than necessary. It may be necessary to recess the flange using a ⅛" or 3.5mm drill. Heat from a soldering iron can be used to fit the bearings, but is rather hit and miss and requires a very steady hand to not mess things up beyond repair.

 

Good luck! The improvement in running fully justifies the trouble taken and metal wheel tyres require much less cleaning - a job we can all do without!

 

* Other metals are available, but brass is a time honoured bearing material.

 

I have not tried the 'Truck Tuner', but this is really for use if you intend to keep the original axleguard/bogie frame material

Edited May 7, 2017 by Il Grifone

[cctransuk]

Have you tried to fit the replacement wheels to the existing axle?  I am assuming plastic wheels on steel axles and steel wheels on plastic bushes on steel axle as per my old Mainline wagons.

 

Originally, Mainline models had one-piece wheels and axles in a hard, nylon-type plastic.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Phil Bullock]

you need a Truck Turner.

 

Look on this page --> http://www.wizardmodels.co.uk/FrameSetShop.php?DM=wizabout

 

This does the same job. Absolutely invaluable!

 

steveIMG_0970.JPG

 

IMG_0971.JPG

 

steve

 

That's the one! Looks the dogs whatsits, ordering one as we speak....but suspect the chutes on the Hornby 21 ton hoppers will prevent me using it on them.....

 

Phil

[The Johnster]

Completely free running wagons, especially brake vans, are not always a good thing.  I can now hear the cries of 'heresy, burn the witch, burn him now', but, unless you are running very heavy trains, your locos will be able to cope with a stiff running brake van so long as the wheels are not sliding, and the brake van will keep your couplings taut, and possibly be able to hold an uncoupled train on a slight gradient, which is a very prototypical thing for them to do.  My brake vans have card strips bearing on the tops of the axles to achieve this effect; occasionally a card strip wears and has to be replaced, no biggie.

 

That said, I do not run prototypical length main line goods trains up gradients, and can get away with a bit of drag.

[flockandroll]

Thank you all.

I think I will try try the Micro-Mark Truck Tuner (aka Ed's Tool) from Wizard Models. As I've splashed out on wheels, it will have to wait until pay day at the end of the month. I drive through Barton upon Humber most days but looks like it has to be bought by post.

 

 

The 'standard' British 4mm axle is 26mm long , 2mm in diameter and has a 60° angle to the pinpoint. This runs in brass bearings again 2mm in diameter and designed to fit in axleguards with the inside faces 24mm apart. However not all axles or bearings (Romford bearings for example) conform to this specification. The standard American axle (favoured by Bachmann) is one inch in length (25.4mm) and Lima are 24.5mm (Continental H0).

Yes, from what I have read on rmweb there are no over-reaching "official" 00 "standards", just various groups and manufacturers working to their own standards. I went for Bachmann wheels in view of their Mainline 'heritage'. To replace the Hornby wheels guess I will use Hornby metal wheels. Don't know if I will ever be more 'fine scale'.

Have just managed to get an oval test track of new Peco set track (4th radius) on a temporary table top. My Rule No. 2 is that is has to work without needing a 'finger from above' or thumping the board to get it to move. So metal wheels are needed. At the moment I'm not buying any new rolling stock, just hoping to start modelling with what I've got.
 

 

 

Originally, Mainline models had one-piece wheels and axles in a hard, nylon-type plastic.

Those are the type on the brake van and it seems on the wagons too.

 

 

Completely free running wagons, especially brake vans, are not always a good thing...

I actually thought that too. But the fit is currently so tight compared to the weight, that if pushed the wheels skid rather than turn.

 

...My brake vans have card strips bearing on the tops of the axles to achieve this effect...

That sounds a good idea. I'm surprised that in this age of digital control there is not a brake van with operating brakes.

[flockandroll]

And thank you steve 1 for the pictures and endorsement.

[Steamport Southport]

If you have got Lima wheels to replace then Peters Spares make drop in replacements.

 

http://www.petersspares.com/peters-spares-ps34-lima-replacement-12mm-wagon-coach-wheels-x1-pair.ir

 

Found them the other day when looking for something else.

 

 

Jason

[Flying Pig]

There is an adjustable tool, similar in operation to the truck tuner, but intended to drill out axleboxes for brass bearings. It was originally described in MRJ 212 and subsequently marketed by Alan Gibson.

 

I think Lambton58 acquired one recently and I've pm'd him to tell us where he found it as they were noted as out of stock at Alan Gibson not so long ago.

[flockandroll]

When/if I progress to code 75 track then the Lima wheels will be replaced, probably on the parcels stock and sell the passenger stock (if not too sentimental).

 

Yes, the alangibsonworkshop.com website says "Bob Paynes RTR Wagon Drill - SOLD OUT" probably more expensive than £16.50 also.

[Free At Last]

Is this something similar from DCC Concepts... http://www.hattons.co.uk/81131/DCC_Concepts_DCF_BR2_Bearing_Reamer_Pack_x_2/StockDetail.aspx

Edited May 7, 2017 by Free At Last

[Il Grifone]

Is this something similar from DCC Concepts... http://www.hattons.co.uk/81131/DCC_Concepts_DCF_BR2_Bearing_Reamer_Pack_x_2/StockDetail.aspx

Again sold out, but quoted as £12.

 

The British axle standard is 26mm, but like most standards not always observed. Hornby wheels used to be 26mm, but the last lot I got were a bit shorter, but longer than 25.4mm (Bachmann are American and use the NMRA standards.) It is usually possible to replace the wheels on the original axle as most are 2mm diameter.

[Steamport Southport]

Again sold out, but quoted as £12.

 

They had some in stock earlier. I think people may have bought them after seeing this thread.

 

Available from DCC Concepts direct though.

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bearing-reamers-set-of-two/

 

 

 

Jason

[Phil Bullock]

There is an adjustable tool, similar in operation to the truck tuner, but intended to drill out axleboxes for brass bearings. It was originally described in MRJ 212 and subsequently marketed by Alan Gibson.

 

I think Lambton58 acquired one recently and I've pm'd him to tell us where he found it as they were noted as out of stock at Alan Gibson not so long ago.

 

Isnt that the one I linked to in post 6 above? Couldn't see it in the catalogue either....

 

Phil

[bigherb]

TTTE of this parish makes one to fit brass bearings which works well.

 

[Flying Pig]

Isnt that the one I linked to in post 6 above? Couldn't see it in the catalogue either....

 

Phil

Apologies, Phil. I missed your post.

[flockandroll]

So there appear to be 3 or 4 options for tools:

 

1) Bob Paynes RTR Wagon Drill tool from Alan Gibson which is sold out...but may perhaps still be obtained.

 

2) Micro-Mark Truck Tuner (aka Ed's Tool) from Wizard Models.for £16;50 (plus postage?) and recommended by above by JZ and steve1 Fixed length, cuts at one end.

 

3) DCC Concepts DCF-BR2 Bearing Reamer Pack https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bearing-reamers-set-of-two/, well reviewed in a popular magazine, Fixed, cuts at both ends.. £10 to £12 plus postage

 

4) Tool made by TTTE of this parish http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/111164-knowle-wagon-works/&do=findComment&comment=2306724  that "allows easy and accurate fitment of any 2mm brass bearing in RTR stock. Due to its design it is suitable for OO, EM and P4 gauges." Adjustable, cuts from one end.. £12 plus £1;50 postage. [edtited 22.5.17 to add "TTTE is a.k.a. Knowle Wagon Works, see post 25 below"]

 

Does anyone have experience of using more than one of these? I am conscious that some (all) of these tools are designed to insert or adjust a brass bearing, whereas what we want to do is insert metal pin point axles directly into plastic.

Edited May 22, 2017 by flockandroll

[cctransuk]

So there appear to be 3 or 4 options for tools:

 

1) Bob Paynes RTR Wagon Drill tool from Alan Gibson which is sold out...but may perhaps still be obtained.

 

2) Micro-Mark Truck Tuner (aka Ed's Tool) from Wizard Models.for £16;50 (plus postage?) and recommended by above by JZ and steve1 Fixed length, cuts at one end.

 

3) DCC Concepts DCF-BR2 Bearing Reamer Pack https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/bearing-reamers-set-of-two/, well reviewed in a popular magazine, Fixed, cuts at both ends.. £10 to £12 plus postage

 

4) Tool made by TTTE of this parish http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/111164-knowle-wagon-works/&do=findComment&comment=2306724  that "allows easy and accurate fitment of any 2mm brass bearing in RTR stock. Due to its design it is suitable for OO, EM and P4 gauges." Adjustable, cuts from one end.. £12 plus £1;50 postage.

 

Does anyone have experience of using more than one of these? I am conscious that some (all) of these tools are designed to insert or adjust a brass bearing, whereas what we want to do is insert metal pin point axles directly into plastic.

 

In which case option 2 is what you need.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Lambton58]

There is an adjustable tool, similar in operation to the truck tuner, but intended to drill out axleboxes for brass bearings. It was originally described in MRJ 212 and subsequently marketed by Alan Gibson.

 

I think Lambton58 acquired one recently and I've pm'd him to tell us where he found it as they were noted as out of stock at Alan Gibson not so long ago.

 

Sorry, missed Flying Pig's PM as I've been away from RMWeb for a bit dealing with junior cricket!  Anyway I did indeed get such a tool.  Not Alan Gibson, but Knowle Wagon Works.  More here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/111164-knowle-wagon-works/  

Have to confess that I've not used it yet, but it is a very neat little gizmo with a free Allen key 

Cheers

 

Ralph 

Lambton58

Edited May 17, 2017 by Lambton58