For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

hideously ugly East Lancs bodied Scania's that Brighton & Hove bought from the late 1980's onwards and would appear as far away as Portsmouth

They were well-travelled.  In a time when joint routes were still legal* B&H had a single duty on the seven-vehicle then-hourly 700 to Portsmouth.  They also had turns on the then half-hourly 712 to Eastbourne also shared with Southdown.  And they had a single duty on the then-hourly 729 to Tunbridge Wells which was a three-way joint operation with Southdown (3 vehicles) and Maidstone & District (one).  

 

As a sign of how bus fortunes are not always in an ever-downward spiral B&H has full responsibility now for the coastal route which has resumed its traditional number 12 (with A and X variants) and operates as often as six times an hour through to Eastbourne with additional shorts to Seaford.  Not only that but there is  summer 13X adding more capacity and diverting via Birling Gap and Beachy Head.  The 729 has become the 29 (with A, B and X variants) and on the non-covid timetable is half-hourly through to Tunbridge Wells with shorts providing four-an-hour out to Uckfield and six (including route 28) to Lewes.  B&H has been the sole operator of all those for many years now.  They ceded the 700 to Southdown, later Stagecoach, which resulted in an early Worthing - Brighton journey being added to maintain the former B&H early start from that end.  The route has had its ups and downs and now runs in three sections to comply with current legislation but offers a best-ever 10-minute headway to Littlehampton with the middle section thence to Chichester at half that and the Bognor Regis - Portsmouth section every 15 minutes.  

 

All three routes have also had weekend night buses in recent years.  B&H work the N12 and N14 towards Eastbourne with different parts of the route served between once and four times each night and worked the now-withdrawn single-trip N29 to Uckfield.  Stagecoach works an hourly N700 to Worthing where it runs a long loop of the the residential areas west of the town before returning.  

 

* Joint routes were largely dealt a terminal blow at deregulation when they were suddenly considered to be "anti-competitive" and in breach of the new legislation despite the fact that most actually worked in both operators and passengers favour.  In more recent times a few limited cases of "joint" working have returned but registered carefully with each operator offering different times but to a co-ordinated pattern and never advertised as a joint operation.  This differs from cases where an otherwise commercial service is covered by another operator on contract in the evening and at weekends since co-ordination suggests both operators are registering their journeys as commercial.  

Edited March 16, 2021 by Gwiwer

[Johann Marsbar]

20th March 1981....

 

 

Ipswich Borough Transport Leyland Atlantean  No.44 working a Route 1 service to Bourne Bridge terminus along the Wherstead Road, Ipswich.

UNW 404H was a fairly recent purchase from West Yorkshire PTE at that time (an ex Leeds City Transport vehicle), obtained to replace the four single-door ECW bodied Atlanteans in the IBT fleet, which were then sold on to Eastbourne Borough Transport.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Johann Marsbar

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Johann Marsbar said:

20th March 1981....

 

 

Ipswich Borough Transport Leyland Atlantean  No.44 working a Route 1 service to Bourne Bridge terminus along the Wherstead Road, Ipswich.

UNW 404H was a fairly recent purchase from West Yorkshire PTE at that time (an ex Leeds City Transport vehicle), obtained to replace the four single-door ECW bodied Atlanteans in the IBT fleet, which were then sold on to Eastbourne Borough Transport.

Making good use of the trolleybus poles for street lighting.

[Johann Marsbar]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Making good use of the trolleybus poles for street lighting.

Ipswich Corporation, when they had their own electric supply operation (until 1948), made extensive use of overhead domestic power distribution arrangements which was obviously handy when it came to installing trolleybus infrastructure. Eastern Electricity didn't really make a concerted effort to bury those supply cables or erect new streetlighting poles until the 1980's onwards, so a lot of the trolleybus traction poles lasted well after the trolleybuses finished in August 1963.

The Bourne Bridge route converted to motorbus in 1956 and as an early trolleybus conversion (1924) there were actually some ex tramway support poles (from 1903) still in situ in a few places along Wherstead Road until they were all taken down in the 80's. They were noiticeably thinner than the later ones and some retained a spiked finial rather than the "ball & spike" types shown in the photo.

 

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Edited March 20, 2021 by Johann Marsbar

[PhilJ W]

49 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Ipswich Corporation, when they had their own electric suppy operation (until 1948), made extensive use of overhead domestic power distribution arrangements which was obviously handy when it came to installing trolleybus infrastructure. Eastern Electricity didn't really make a concerted effort to bury those supply cables or erect new streetlighting poles until the 1980's onwards, so a lot of the trolleybus traction poles lasted well after the trolleybuses finished in August 1963.

The Bourne Bridge route converted to motorbus in 1956 and as an early trolleybus conversion (1924) there were actually some ex tramway support poles (from 1903) still in situ in a few places along Wherstead Road until they were all taken down in the 80's. They were noiticeably thinner than the later ones and some retained a spiked finial rather than the "ball & spike" types shown in the photo.

 

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I understand that some of the poles went to the East Anglia Transport Museum. They also took some 1930's Art Deco lamp standards from Romford.

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

I understand that some of the poles went to the East Anglia Transport Museum. They also took some 1930's Art Deco lamp standards from Romford.

We bought a load of Traction Poles for the Ipswich Transport Museum in the 1970's - think they came from the Sidegate Lane Route - and they were stored until last year when a decision was made that having an operating circuit of our own is highly unlikely, so they were sold to the EATM for use on their new extension onto their expanded museum site.

I don't think there are any poles left standing anywhere on former TB routes in the Town now, though there are a few wall mounting Rosettes in the Cornhill area.

 

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Edited March 20, 2021 by Johann Marsbar

[Johann Marsbar]

Great Yarmouth Borough Transport Atlantean AEX 26B outside the Depot, 21.3.1981....

 

 

The rear end of one of their single deck Atlanteans can be seen on the right of the photo as well.

 

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[John M Upton]

Whilst clearing out the garage yesterday I came across a few old photos which I must have picked up at a show or similar over thirty years ago. 

 

This one was a badly faded Polaroid which I scanned as black and white to restore the image.  Original photographer and location unknown.

 

Also found this too, again original photographer unknown:

 

[Mike_Walker]

3 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Whilst clearing out the garage yesterday I came across a few old photos which I must have picked up at a show or similar over thirty years ago. 

 

This one was a badly faded Polaroid which I scanned as black and white to restore the image.  Original photographer and location unknown.

 

Merseyside PTE  1975 Leyland Atlantean AN68/1R Alexander H43/32F

[Gwiwer]

21 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Also found this too

Leyland demonstrator I believe.  With many Leopards fitted with manual gearboxes a ZF would have been a more expensive option for operators.

[Moxy]

49 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Whilst clearing out the garage yesterday I came across a few old photos which I must have picked up at a show or similar over thirty years ago. 

 

Also found this too, again original photographer unknown:

 

 

Parked (wrong way round!) in the concrete carbuncle that is Preston bus station.

 

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Leyland demonstrator I believe.  With many Leopards fitted with manual gearboxes a ZF would have been a more expensive option for operators.

After the demise of the Reliance (a much better coach IMHO) Leyland offered the option of the ZF gearbox which was very popular in the Reliance but many Reliance operators opted for chassis such as Volvo instead.

[Gwiwer]

I quite agree. Leopards had a reputation for being slow and ponderous on all but downhill roads. Reliances were better. By the time the ZF was more widespread Volvo had UK-specification coaches to beat them both. 

[PhilJ W]

26 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

I quite agree. Leopards had a reputation for being slow and ponderous on all but downhill roads. Reliances were better. By the time the ZF was more widespread Volvo had UK-specification coaches to beat them both. 

Volvo copied AEC very closely in the early years. When I saw a Volvo engine dismantled I at first thought it was an AEC that it was so much alike. I have been told that early Volvo diesels used Whitworth threaded bolts.

[Gwiwer]

It was said with some justification that a Volvo B58 was just an AEC Reliance with a different badge.  Not quite.  But the similarities were there as was the engine note.  

[John M Upton]

And when the B10M came along, that was pretty much curtains for Leyland's coach chassis models, they never really recovered from that.

[Johann Marsbar]

One from 38 years ago today - 25th March 1983.....

 

 

Official launch into service of the then brand new Ipswich Borough Transport Dennis Falcon HC/East Lancs single deckers on the Chantry routes.

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Johann Marsbar said:

One from 38 years ago today - 25th March 1983.....

 

 

Official launch into service of the then brand new Ipswich Borough Transport Dennis Falcon HC/East Lancs single deckers on the Chantry routes.

 

 

 

That looks a good service, quite short intervals between buses, or do they all go at once and there isn't another one for three hours?

 

Mike.

[BernardTPM]

I've got a slide of one of those taken 18 months later in 1984. Nice livery, but an ugly bus!

[Johann Marsbar]

32 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

I've got a slide of one of those taken 18 months later in 1984. Nice livery, but an ugly bus!

 

The livery was altered a bit from 1985 onwards by the painting of some of the lower panels in the 1930's ICT dark green.....

 

 

Taken at Showbus (Woburn Abbey) in 1986.

[37114]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

I've got a slide of one of those taken 18 months later in 1984. Nice livery, but an ugly bus!

 

East Lancs at the time didn't really do stylish, they also never seemed to make 2 batches of buses the same, the headlight placement in particular looks like it was the result of a factory game of "Pin the headlight on the bus". In fairness their later "Y" series of bodies (Spryte, Lolyne etc) were stylish at the time when specified with non gasket glazing.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

I've got a slide of one of those taken 18 months later in 1984. Nice livery, but an ugly bus!

The Lego School of bus design....

 

John

[J. S. Bach]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

The livery was altered a bit from 1985 onwards by the painting of some of the lower panels in the 1930's ICT dark green.....

 

 

Taken at Showbus (Woburn Abbey) in 1986.

I wonder how many of the buses in the photo still exist?

[PhilJ W]

Most of the buses in the background probably do survive. The subject of the photograph is the least likely survivor.

[John M Upton]

Ipswich were the largest customer for the Falcon, not really a very successful design, sold in very small numbers with a range of bodywork to mostly municipals as they were then known.  There was a half dozen double deck Falcon V types as well which were equally unsuccessful.

 

Dennis really only sold the likes of the Dominator (in both single and double deck form) to various Municipal operators who were previously loyal Leyland Atlantean or Daimler Fleetline customers but then only in not that great a numbers with most of the NBC and similar sticking with the Leyland Olympian as it was the direct descendent of the Bristol VR and Atlantean.

 

It wasn't until the appearance of the Dart, a classic example of the right design at the right time that Dennis really became more of a mainstream manufacturer whilst the sad remnants of Leyland faded away.

 

Bedford did do a Dart like model many years earlier but it was ten to fifteen years too early, the Bedford JJL, a lovely design but only four built and after that they pretty much gave up the bus and coach business.