For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[Metr0Land]

In 1987 tendering of LT routes was getting well into its stride.  Harrow(ing) Buses got into difficulties and had to hire in a number of ex-GM Atlanteans.  IIRC they could been seen on any of Harrow's routes.  A few months earlier London Country South West had bought GND496M (possibly others?) which became AN289 in its numbering sequence.  It's seen at Hounslow after they had taken over the 110.

 

 

[ColinK]

Very interesting, I worked at GM then but didn’t know about that.

 

I like the advert on the side ‘JVC videos

[J. S. Bach]

This ran in Baltimore, MD as a city-sponsored tour bus:

I leave it to one of you to identify it as as I only knew it as the "London bus". It was in service sometime during the late 1980s until?.

 

 

[PatB]

On 25/03/2021 at 21:56, J. S. Bach said:

I wonder how many of the buses in the photo still exist?

Not sure about that photo, but of the previous shot, the last one ran out of tax in July 2013, according to the DVLA.

[Johann Marsbar]

3 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

This ran in Baltimore, MD as a city-sponsored tour bus:

I leave it to one of you to identify it as as I only knew it as the "London bus". It was in service sometime during the late 1980s until?.

 

 

 

A Bristol Lodekka  (FS rather than LD? ) and definitely not a "London Bus".  Paint it red, change the destination blinds and sell it as a "London Bus" being rather common in the 1970's/80's...

This is a list of all Lodekkas known to have been exported to North America, but nothing is listed as being owned by the City of Baltimore at first import that I could see, though it could well have passed through a Dealer like British Promotions of Norfolk, VA, first.

http://bcv.robsly.com/loduscan.html

Nearest operator listed on there to Baltimore is an outfit at New Carrolton, MD.

There used to be a more detailed list of exported buses online, but I couldn't find it this morning.

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

This ran in Baltimore, MD as a city-sponsored tour bus:

I leave it to one of you to identify it as as I only knew it as the "London bus". It was in service sometime during the late 1980s until?.

 

 

 

I would have expected to get an Indian meal not a sight seeing tour!

 

Mike.

[Busmansholiday]

Think I 'd be going LD (no sign of CBC heating ducts) and that multi rear destination smacks of Western National.

[Gwiwer]

48 minutes ago, Busmansholiday said:

Think I 'd be going LD (no sign of CBC heating ducts) and that multi rear destination smacks of Western National.

A number of variations existed. This one has folding platform doors where others has a slider or open platform. 
 

The three-piece rear blind wasn’t unique to Western National; it was an option also taken by some other operators but does suggest an earlier model.   Most operators were happy to have either ultimate-plus-number or just number on the back saving the conductor a little work.
 

Those which had the full display available seldom used it.  Western (and Southern) National vehicles were very fond of displaying “Service” or the operator name in the via box and didn’t always show anything in the ultimate window either.  “Service 10” was apparently enough to identify the Penzance - St. Just bus for example. 
 

Hants & Dorset were also overly-fond of guesswork offering “service” or a blank as the via display. 

[PhilJ W]

It appears to be a 'Tilling' shade of red but that doesn't reduce the possibilities very much.

[PhilJ W]

A likely candidate is ex Lincolnshire R.C.C. 2344 (PBE123). I'll research it a bit more when I have time.

[stewartingram]

Definitely an LD variant rather than an FS. Clues are the rear emergency doors -( )( rather tan () if you see what I mean), and the large 3-pane destination blind. This was standard with ECW builds on the LD (though some operators chose differently). By the time the FS was produced, the standard (again with operator variants) was the 2-pane version.

 

Stewart

Edited May 30, 2021 by stewartingram

[rocor]

Old bus photograph number 150, "The invisible charabanc".

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, Busmansholiday said:

Think I 'd be going LD (no sign of CBC heating ducts) and that multi rear destination smacks of Western National.

It is an LD, four and a bit windows on the lower deck, an FS has four longer ones. The rear windows (emergency door) as noted by Stewart form a V at the top, which LD , the FS they formed an arch.

 

I had a go at scratchbuilding a FS using LD and FLF drawings. I managed to have an FS front and top deck with an LD lower deck. I now have some very nice Corgi FSs and Basic LDs.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Clive Mortimore

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

A likely candidate is ex Lincolnshire R.C.C. 2344 (PBE123). I'll research it a bit more when I have time.

 

Well, that one had gravitated to a school near Johnstown, PA, when I came across it back in 2010....

 

 

It still had LRCCo adverts inside it...

 

 

...which don't appear to be visible in the Baltimore photo.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Johann Marsbar

[PhilJ W]

Interesting point about the Bristol LD. They were not usually fitted with top sliding vents in all windows when new but those in the photographs are fitted with them in all windows. Either it was common practice to fit extra ventilators due to the warmer climes in which the buses operated or they were built as such.

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

A number of variations existed. This one has folding platform doors where others has a slider or open platform. 
 

The three-piece rear blind wasn’t unique to Western National; it was an option also taken by some other operators but does suggest an earlier model.   Most operators were happy to have either ultimate-plus-number or just number on the back saving the conductor a little work.
 

Those which had the full display available seldom used it.  Western (and Southern) National vehicles were very fond of displaying “Service” or the operator name in the via box and didn’t always show anything in the ultimate window either.  “Service 10” was apparently enough to identify the Penzance - St. Just bus for example. 
 

Hants & Dorset were also overly-fond of guesswork offering “service” or a blank as the via display. 

The main Southern/Western National route in my then locality was the Seaton-Taunton 213 (IIRC resourced jointly by SN at their  Seaton/Chard depots, and WN from Taunton) which made very full use of the multiple blinds on their LDs.

 

Taunton, in the top one, with Axminster, Chard, Ilminster in the big one, on the northbound service and Seaton over Ilminster, Chard, Axminster coming south. There were short services between Seaton and Chard, and (I think) just Taunton-Ilminster from the other end, but the Service number was constant.  

 

John

Edited May 30, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Gwiwer]

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

the Seaton-Taunton 213 (IIRC resourced jointly by SN at their  Seaton/Chard depots, and WN from Taunton)

Remarkably the route still runs after a fashion.  It's the 20, manages just a handful of trips and takes a different route across country these days.  Now following a very rural course through Hemyock and Dunkeswell in the 213 days it came via Chard and Axminster.  It's also a Devon and Somerset joint contract as it's a long way short of being a commercially-viable route but provides useful local links particularly to Honiton from surrounding villages.   The route via Axminster also still runs but you need to change buses (and operators) in Axminster; it's Taunton - Axminster on First Buses of Somerset route 30 then to Seaton on Axe Valley route 885.

 

SN worked out of Seaton and Chard as those towns were in former Southern Railway territory; WN ran from Taunton which was in GWR territory.  The connection - or lack of it - between the companies originated in the days of them being railway-owned bus-link operators.  Which is why you got Southern National deep in Cornwall as they ran the coastal route from Padstow (the end of the SR line from Waterloo) but WN could be found well into Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (operations later ceded to other Tilling Group companies) in GWR territory.  Axe Valley now run from the former SN depot at Seaton.  

Edited May 30, 2021 by Gwiwer

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Gwiwer said:

Remarkably the route still runs after a fashion.  It's the 20, manages just a handful of trips and takes a different route across country these days.  Now following a very rural course through Hemyock and Dunkeswell in the 213 days it came via Chard and Axminster.  It's also a Devon and Somerset joint contract as it's a long way short of being a commercially-viable route but provides useful local links particularly to Honiton from surrounding villages.   The route via Axminster also still runs but you need to change buses (and operators) in Axminster; it's Taunton - Axminster on First Buses of Somerset route 30 then to Seaton on Axe Valley route 885.

 

SN worked out of Seaton and Chard as those towns were in former Southern Railway territory; WN ran from Taunton which was in GWR territory.  The connection - or lack of it - between the companies originated in the days of them being railway-owned bus-link operators.  Which is why you got Southern National deep in Cornwall as they ran the coastal route from Padstow (the end of the SR line from Waterloo) but WN could be found well into Gloucestershire and Wiltshire (operations later ceded to other Tilling Group companies) in GWR territory.  Axe Valley now run from the former SN depot at Seaton.  

The 20 passes within a couple of hundred yards of my present home, but I've only ever used it once, from Seaton to Honiton.

 

The former Devon General route between Exeter and Axminster is the only one round here AFAIK that retains its old number, 4 over its full original distance, though it now runs as 4, 4a, 4b and (possibly) 4c depending on how far out of Exeter the particular service gets. The former DG route 9 from Exeter to Sidmouth nowadays extends to Honiton or Seaton, the various alternatives being designated 9, 9a and 9b. Last week I noticed one of the Exeter Park and Ride liveried double-deckers serving Seaton.

 

Axe Valley seems to have a quite interestingly mixed fleet and I get the impression that most of their double-deckers have been "rusticated" from the capital. My knowledge of makes and models runs out around 1970, though! I largely lost interest when everything got painted white.

 

John

Edited May 30, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Gwiwer]

12 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Axe Valley seems to have a quite interestingly mixed fleet

It was ever thus.  Frankly I am amazed they have stayed the course.  A small independent filling in where the big groups retreated from years ago and managing to offer a near-hourly service on the 885 which these days is Axminster through to Beer.  It ended at Seaton for many years but since the withdrawal of the Jurassic Coaster X53 Beer was almost isolated from the bus network.  The local 899 still runs its few trips and is one reason Axe Valley requires a number of small buses.  It takes in the tortuous (but splendidly scenic) route through Branscombe and the 1:4 hill thence over to Beer.  All of it on single-track lanes.  When we lived in Beer it was ex-City of Plymouth Dodge S56 minibuses which were, frankly, kn@ck*red but somehow gave a few more years of service and stormed that hill several times daily.  

 

Axe Valley runs a number of Devon CC school and college contracts for which it is paid enough to survive and which provide employment for its varied and frequently-changing double-deck fleet.  Many come from London but not all.  

[5944]

This photo was posted on the Locomotive a Vapore Facebook group the other day. 

 

https://m.facebook.com/groups/185042144914515/permalink/4025676640851027/?sfnsn=scwspmo

 

Never mind the pair of Italian 835 0-6-0Ts and tender - on the left is former East Kent AEC Regent V MFN948F! Currently located in Barbisano, north of Venice. The locos are visible on Streetview, but the bus hadn't arrived. 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/wmBBCA7sePbftHwS9

[RANGERS]

On 30/05/2021 at 13:28, Johann Marsbar said:

 

Well, that one had gravitated to a school near Johnstown, PA, when I came across it back in 2010....

 

 

It still had LRCCo adverts inside it...

 

 

...which don't appear to be visible in the Baltimore photo.

 

If that photo was in 2010, the advert has done well to last nearly 40 years. Its a pre-NBC advert of the LRCC London links which were absorbed into the National Express network in March 1973 (Services A-D which went through various incarnations to become 447-449 today)

[Johann Marsbar]

19 minutes ago, RANGERS said:

If that photo was in 2010, the advert has done well to last nearly 40 years. Its a pre-NBC advert of the LRCC London links which were absorbed into the National Express network in March 1973 (Services A-D which went through various incarnations to become 447-449 today)

 

It had a complete set of interior adverts and I was able to photograph two of them through the windows. After a bit of playing around with the other one, which is rather dark in the original photo, you can now read it better.....

 

 

It was pure chance I found the bus at the school where it was parked on that trip.  I had spent some time at South Fork, PA, on the ex PRR main line and followed the tracks that branched off through town to find a small yard with some NS locos on loaded coal trains from the mines around Windber. I then decided to carry on to Johnstown via back roads and duly came across it as I was driving along. Don't know where it is now though, as the school has become a Senior Centre and a new school seems to have been built some distance from the original site...

[Rugd1022]

The junction of Queen Victoria Street and Cannon Street in 1946....

 

 

 

[John M Upton]

So much interesting in that photo. One bus still retains its wartime economy blanked out upper deck rear window, there is a horse and cart and an Austin KT ambulance in the mix, buildings still boarded up or in the distance, gone completely, the clock on the wall over on the right missing from its frame, possibly blown out by a bomb explosion and not replaced.

 

Fascinating...

[PhilJ W]

Also interesting is the small (Ford model A?) truck on the right. The wheels suggest it was converted from a car. There is also a military ambulance, almost certainly an Austin K2 and a horse drawn wagon.