For those interested in old buses (and coaches)

[John M Upton]

For the ultimate in ugly tree, try the unique style that for some unfathomable reason Nottingham City Transport insisted on having its double decks built in, a standard design for them that got progressively worse as the years went by and the chassis availability changed until they finally saw sense, ditched the nonsense and went back to off the peg designs.

 

No pictures from me unfortunately (or maybe, fortunately) but a Google or Flickr search should turn some up....

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=Nottingham Atlantean

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by John M Upton

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

An earlier style of Alexander body on an Atlantean....

 

 

...with an ECW bodied one parked behind it.

 

So much more stylish having a bay window upstairs too, and somebody has actually taken the trouble to add some shape to the front panel.

 

The "empty" fronts on so many Atlanteans looked as if they'd been drawn after the designer had knocked off for the weekend and lacked any character or individuality IMHO. On otherwise almost identical ECW bodies, the grille on Bristol VRs made such a difference to the visual proportions.    

Edited October 13, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[5 C]

If we're going for Atlanteans beaten with the ugly stick, may I offer this entry from Fishwick's own coachbuilder Fowler? This 1972 PDR1/3 was (mercifully) the only Fowler bodied double decker. A rather ungainly looking design where the top deck seems to be making an escape bid from the bottom.

 

 

[Butler Henderson]

22 hours ago, John M Upton said:

For the ultimate in ugly tree, try the unique style that for some unfathomable reason Nottingham City Transport insisted on having its double decks built in, a standard design for them that got progressively worse as the years went by

The "style" was as a result of the curved windscreen, the purpose of which was to cut down on internal reflections especially at night and with the top edge around 19 inches above the foward tip of the steering wheel provdied the driver with excellant visibility looking through the steeply angled top edge of the windscreen and it was that angle which reduced interior reflections.  Source: Nottingham City Transport's Buses From Daimler to Scania, Daryl Hempsell, Next Stop Productions 2012  ISBN 978-0-9573253-0-2

Edited October 13, 2021 by Butler Henderson

[Gwiwer]

On 12/10/2021 at 16:22, John M Upton said:

Although some operators did specify it with the extra height

Three heights were built.  The standard model was 13' 8" high and was a direct successor to the much-loved Lodekka range and featured the same near-flat floor and lower-than-normal overall height.  Some operators preferred the "highbridge" model which was the full 14' 6" and consequently offered better headroom on the lower deck though the same upstairs.  Maidstone & District required some 'deckers of ultra-low height to cope with very low bridges in the Hastings and Bexhill area and had a batch built to 13' 5" height with the upper deck headroom reduced.  

 

It was possible to tell from a distance which was which from the 'tween-decks panelling.  This was perhaps most obvious on NBC-liveried examples where the white waistband narrowed noticeably above the driver's windscreen on the 13' 8" models but retained its full depth on the 14' 6" ones.  There was no white at all above the screens of the 13' 5" models.  

 

I once found myself aboard one of M&D's 14' 6" VRTs (probably the only operator to have had all three heights in the fleet and all ordered new) heading from Groombridge railway station.  The posted clearance beneath the bridge there was 14' 6" making me wonder if it might not have been prudent to use a standard-height bus.  But we sailed under at more or less full speed and with what must have been a whisker between the roof and the bridge because it looked very much as though we were bound for impact on approach and it felt extremely close sitting upstairs.  

 

London Country also operated a batch of 14' 6" VRTs (class code BT) which I gather were foisted on them by an NBC who refused to allow an Atlantean-operating company to get away with never having the NBC's standard 'decker.  They were only ever used on the 370, Romford - Grays, other than in extremis and their lives there were short being replaced by ..... Atlanteans!  I was assured by the Grays drivers I spoke with that they were unloved to put it mildly. 

[Butler Henderson]

Also the curved upper windows which Nottingham specified from 1966 after the 1964 introduction of the curved windscreen gave better airflow with roof vents to extract stale air from the upper deck, while the large front bumper was added from 1968. The last vehicles to follow the format were introduced in 1988.

[alastairq]

16 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

The "style" was as a result of the curved windscreen, the purpose of which was to cut down on internal reflections especially at night and with the top edge around 19 inches above the foward tip of the steering wheel provdied the driver with excellant visibility looking through the steeply angled top edge of the windscreen and it was that angle which reduced interior reflections.  S

 Oh, how I used to wish the EYMS deckers I once drove on the 121 service [based from Driffield], has summat to cut down the interior reflections on dark winter's nights...out of sight of streetlamps???

Trying to maintain a semblance of 'time' with Bristol VRs, Leyland  Limp-ones, etc was a nightmare if one wished to not 'leave' intending rural passengers, stood at their usual trees/bus stops, gateholes, etc, at night.  Or run down the frequent rural cyclist [not much pleasure/leisure cycling round hereabouts in those days..anyone on a pushbike was either going to work, going home from work, or doing the shopping...not like today's lycra-clad wombles!]

 

Measuring up the part of the windscreen through which one could actually see the very vague headlights, resulted in almost 4/5ths of the screen, from in front, to the left, being obscured bright reflections, and visuals of the old farts sitting on the left picking their noses.  The little screen to the rear of the doors, whilst equipped with a blind, which was a token gesture, was no help at all. Being able to switch off the left side interior lights helped a bit..but meant a passenger 'could not read a newspaper' when sat there.

Yet, despite frequent warnings, complaints by drivers, etc...nothing much was ever done to address the issue.  it didn't matter in the cities & towns, with street lighting.....but the 121 service was a very rural interurban route.

Nothing really improved until the mid-1990s, when the depot was issued with a fleet of very long Volvo/Alexander deckers, all kitted out on the EYMS Classic line scheme.

The other nice thing about those [tram-like, in my view] volvos was, we could now overtake cyclists out on the open road, with impunity. whereas with the Olympians[and VRs], much planning & route knowledge had to be employed in order to overtake a push bike... Same with trakKeters....nowt worse than a bus whose gearbox and engine was ''all in'' ,top gear at 32 mph!! No revs to change down, not a lot of acceleration [non existent usually] to pass summat doing 31 mph....One had to know where all the little downhill dips were on the route, to help increase speed..Then one had to know where one could see far enough ahead, clearly, to make sure nowt was coming the other way [unusual]..The new Volvos obviated all of that..plus they were comfy to drive...[unlike the VRs, which had solid wrought iron{!} control columns, immoveable, right hard up agin one's knees...I now suffer from knee pains, etc, from those days...ruddy icy cold they were, in the depths of winter....

One cannot imagine as a modern day bus driver, so used to being able to whizz up to 50 mph in comfort, what it was like to see 50 after several miles...only to have to stop to pick someone up, and start all over again.

I don't recall much, if any, time being slashed off the 121 timings after we got the Volvos...?  Which said a lot about the time-keeping of the old machines?

 

Usually, time was only made up by running straight in & out at either end [Hull, or Scarborough]...too bad if one needed a pee?

Woe betide anyone who left the next driver to make up for lost time, when changing over at Driffield!!!  No excuses for being 'late' for changeover!!  No amount of apologising to the next driver really washed!  Nowt worse than starting one's shift by getting into a sweat trying to 'make' time....

Of course, sweating is unheard of these days for drivers......

[pH]

5 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Oh, how I used to wish the EYMS deckers I once drove on the 121 service

....

Of course, sweating is unheard of these days for drivers

That reads a bit like the “One Yorkshireman Sketch”. 
 

Actually, I do sympathize.

Edited October 14, 2021 by pH

[great central]

On 12/10/2021 at 22:44, John M Upton said:

For the ultimate in ugly tree, try the unique style that for some unfathomable reason Nottingham City Transport insisted on having its double decks built in, a standard design for them that got progressively worse as the years went by and the chassis availability changed until they finally saw sense, ditched the nonsense and went back to off the peg designs.

 

No pictures from me unfortunately (or maybe, fortunately) but a Google or Flickr search should turn some up....

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=Nottingham Atlantean

 

 

Got to disagree on that. Maybe I'm biased but living in Nottingham I always thought the NCT 'house style' gave the buses an air of individuality, in the same way that Routemasters were only associated with London.

Going to other towns and cities, there only seemed to be copycat slab bodied buses.

I will admit, however, that when it came to the angular sloping front of 666 (can't help but wonder if it was allocated that fleet number deliberately, apparently some people even refused to travel on it because of the number!) that the idea had probably run it's course. Although similar lines continued for a while on other chassis.

There's quite a few preserved by this group:

https://nottinghamheritagevehicles728.weebly.com/vehicle-collection.html

[Lord Flashheart]

On 14/10/2021 at 12:03, alastairq said:

 Oh, how I used to wish the EYMS deckers I once drove on the 121 service [based from Driffield], has summat to cut down the interior reflections on dark winter's nights...out of sight of streetlamps???

Trying to maintain a semblance of 'time' with Bristol VRs, Leyland  Limp-ones, etc was a nightmare if one wished to not 'leave' intending rural passengers, stood at their usual trees/bus stops, gateholes, etc, at night.  Or run down the frequent rural cyclist [not much pleasure/leisure cycling round hereabouts in those days..anyone on a pushbike was either going to work, going home from work, or doing the shopping...not like today's lycra-clad wombles!]

 

Measuring up the part of the windscreen through which one could actually see the very vague headlights, resulted in almost 4/5ths of the screen, from in front, to the left, being obscured bright reflections, and visuals of the old farts sitting on the left picking their noses.  The little screen to the rear of the doors, whilst equipped with a blind, which was a token gesture, was no help at all. Being able to switch off the left side interior lights helped a bit..but meant a passenger 'could not read a newspaper' when sat there.

Yet, despite frequent warnings, complaints by drivers, etc...nothing much was ever done to address the issue.  it didn't matter in the cities & towns, with street lighting.....but the 121 service was a very rural interurban route.

Nothing really improved until the mid-1990s, when the depot was issued with a fleet of very long Volvo/Alexander deckers, all kitted out on the EYMS Classic line scheme.

The other nice thing about those [tram-like, in my view] volvos was, we could now overtake cyclists out on the open road, with impunity. whereas with the Olympians[and VRs], much planning & route knowledge had to be employed in order to overtake a push bike... Same with trakKeters....nowt worse than a bus whose gearbox and engine was ''all in'' ,top gear at 32 mph!! No revs to change down, not a lot of acceleration [non existent usually] to pass summat doing 31 mph....One had to know where all the little downhill dips were on the route, to help increase speed..Then one had to know where one could see far enough ahead, clearly, to make sure nowt was coming the other way [unusual]..The new Volvos obviated all of that..plus they were comfy to drive...[unlike the VRs, which had solid wrought iron{!} control columns, immoveable, right hard up agin one's knees...I now suffer from knee pains, etc, from those days...ruddy icy cold they were, in the depths of winter....

One cannot imagine as a modern day bus driver, so used to being able to whizz up to 50 mph in comfort, what it was like to see 50 after several miles...only to have to stop to pick someone up, and start all over again.

I don't recall much, if any, time being slashed off the 121 timings after we got the Volvos...?  Which said a lot about the time-keeping of the old machines?

 

Usually, time was only made up by running straight in & out at either end [Hull, or Scarborough]...too bad if one needed a pee?

Woe betide anyone who left the next driver to make up for lost time, when changing over at Driffield!!!  No excuses for being 'late' for changeover!!  No amount of apologising to the next driver really washed!  Nowt worse than starting one's shift by getting into a sweat trying to 'make' time....

Of course, sweating is unheard of these days for drivers......

Interesting to hear things from a drivers point of view, I grew up in Elloughton in the 80s/90s and lived(parents still do) just round the corner from the depot,the main buses allocated there was the Bristol VR so I've always had a big soft spot for them,when the Olympians started taking over followed by more modern vehicles I lost a lot of interest, similar story for a lot of us with railways I guess.

 

Rob

[J. S. Bach]

12 minutes ago, Lord Flashheart said:

 ...snip... when the Olympians started taking over followed by more modern vehicles I lost a lot of interest, similar story for a lot of us with railways I guess.

 

Rob

When PCCs started to replace the old conventional trolleys the fans back then did the same, even to hating the PCC.

[45669]

I've only just discovered this topic, so my recent post regarding Bristol open top Lodekkas on the Isle of Wight should be in here:

 

TTFN,

 

Ron.

[Johann Marsbar]

Today is the 35th Anniversary of local bus deregulation (26th October 1986), so here is an example of a bus operating one of the Local Authority tendered local bus services that came in from that date....

 

 

The Sunday Aldeburgh route from Ipswich had previously been operated by Eastern Counties and didn't operate via Framlingham - an example of Suffolk County Council combining/lengthening non-commercially operated routes to save resources (and make them more unattractive to use...).

[Gwiwer]

5 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Today is the 35th Anniversary of local bus deregulation (26th October 1986)

Without muddying the waters nor straying into the forbidden topic of politics whether one considers that momentous date in our public transport history to have been good or bad might largely depend upon where one lived.  

 

The large operators tried to maintain their core services and often did so despite the attempts of some others to "run them off the road"*.  Evening and Sunday services were frequently sacrificed however.  Rolling stock was often of the quality previously offered which in most cases was at least acceptable.  

 

Enter the small and the upstart operators now able to run anything at 42 days' notice (as it then was) outside of the still-protected London area.  Anything went.  And often it didn't as in some cases poor maintenance or the need to subcontract that to a local garage resulted in nothing being fit for service.  The nation was filled with bread vans fitted with between 16 - 20 seats which were as mixed a blessing as was deregulation itself.  You still required a full PCV (Category D) licence but your personal reward was often less than those who drove "big" buses as operators sought to save money whilst running ever more of the small ones.  

 

My employer, a former Tilling Group company of many years standing, had happily worked alongside a large number of mostly village-based independents for years.  We ran the main services, they ran the market-day, "thin" and infrequent yet often much-needed routes which were often deeply rural.  Not a single one of those local operators survives.  Many of their routes are long gone too.  No longer can one board John Fry's primrose yellow coach in Tintagel for Plymouth (a run which was often full and sometimes duplicated), nor Tremain's coaches for the Truro - Newquay run via Zelah.  There were two Williams' operators - Chris Williams who ran between Truro and Newquay via St. Agnes and F T (Freddie) Williams who only dealt in coaches and school buses.  There were also two Thomas' operators, unrelated but both remarkably run by a Thomas (Tommy) Thomas, one being based in Sennen and the other the successor to the late and ubiquitous Stanley Thomas of Relubbus whose principal business, Brookside Travel, attempted to wipe Western National off the map and came very close to succeeding in the far west of Cornwall despite being based on a mudpatch and never presenting clean and tidy buses.  

 

35 years on and while most towns and villages still have a service they are almost exclusively provided either commercially by First in Kernow or on contract to Cornwall Council by Go Cornwall, run by a former Western National duty manager now in charge of the whole Go-operation based in Plymouth.  

 

Has that been good or bad?  Opinions will be as divided now as then.  Legislation has forced some change for good notably in terms of vehicle accessibility but at a cost of enforced abandonment of a few services where vehicles large enough to meet current regulations simply will not fit through the lanes or around some corners.  On the other hand some of those routes carried precious few passengers who could not be accommodated elsewhere; those who might have used them from remote farms and hamlets probably had access to a car already (even if not their own) and in my experience seldom changed their ways to suit a bus which - at best - was infrequent and probably didn't suit their needs.  

 

Happy Birthday to Local Service Deregulation.  It's been a roller-coaster ride.  

 

* A term used by the trade press and "Buses" magazine at the time.  "Cherry-picking" was also used to describe those operators who attempted to win business by running their own vehicles a minute or two in front of the established operator on profitable routes.  Over time none of those "bus wars" benefitted anyone in the long term.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Gwiwer

[Oldddudders]

Matthew Parris, MP turned political journo, was in the press gallery for the debate that led to bus de-regulation. He wrote an article about listening to a number of comfortably-shaped mature ladies, apparently talking about regulating their busties. 

[Gwiwer]

28 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Matthew Parris, MP turned political journo, was in the press gallery for the debate that led to bus de-regulation. He wrote an article about listening to a number of comfortably-shaped mature ladies, apparently talking about regulating their busties. 

 

One of several letters to the Times on the subject was from a chap in South Wales.  His local bus routes had changed from hourly every day to a handful of trips on a few days of the week.  He bemoaned the fact that "Bus services in this area have been deregularised".  Not the right word.  But a very apt description of what had taken place.  There and in a good many other places.  

[leopardml2341]

In the run up to de-regulation various 'blockades using buses' were arranged around the country to demonstrate the effect on other road users of a proliferation of extra (often unnecessary) vehicles purely as a result of 'competitive operators' being able to access routes hitherto provided solely by e.g. a municipal operator. In the resulting log jam, car drivers were canvassed on their opinions of the use and development of public transport. Almost all of the 'stuck' car drivers I canvassed thought that public transport was an absolutely brilliant idea.......

 

 

 

 

 

.....for everybody else to use so that they could drive their cars with less hindrance.

 

 

Says a lot really!

[alastairq]

The whole sorry saga hit me personally..as a driver with United Auto, at the time. [big-bus driver].

The deregulation resulted in the advent f [Mercedes] minibuses, so a half hourly service from town to outskirts with a big bus became a 10 minute service [with a lot of hail & ride thrown in] with the 20 seater minibuses.  With The drivers on about two thirds of the pay of a big-bus driver, plus a 6 day week!

Which was the nub of Ms Thatcher's policy....to cut wages...bus drivers being overpaid and over-blown as to their 'importance'...Public transport, ie a proper bus service, run whether anyone wanted to ride or not [it being there, all the time, just in case?  Which is what a 'public service' is really all about?], was deemed as being contrary to the Govt's policies of getting the country's workforce to buy themselves Ford Capris, buy their council houses [thereby making them slaves to the banks], and generally making what was once the working classes, more vulnerable...giving them all summat to lose, in other words.  Makes them a lot more compliant, especially when employers nationwide sought to reduce wage costs?

 

As it happened, the other aspect was, the privatisation of NBC and LA-owned bus companies.

 

United Auto got itself divided up [too big for one buyer, it was deemed]....I worked out of Scarborough depot, which found itself being 'given' to EYMS [to make EYMS a more attractive buyout proposition]....Thus I ended up working for my old employer, again.

EYM wanted to increase the minibus services [to counter the de-regulation]....in other words, cut the [Scarborough] wage bill.  Bridlington already had had ,for a few years, minibuses[with the separate pay & conditions scales] in the form of Ford Transit parcels vans, mit winders.  So they offered all drivers with less than 7 years service the option...accept the new pay & conditions, or make themselves redundant?

MAny opted for the former [bird in hand, etc]....a couple of us, me included, with 6 years service, stuck it out for redundancy pay..something EYMS were reluctant to do.

One lad, got his payout, since he already had his next job lined up, at MAlton depot with West Yorkshire [Road Car, as was]...doing Coastliner services.

So that left lil ol' me!   I nipped next door to the DSS [to register as redundant, etc]...when the Social suddenly announced that the department did not consider the changes in wage & conditions [6 day week] to be sufficiently 'similar' to those I had enjoyed as a big-bus driver....in other words, not a reasonable alternative...which upset EYMS no end.

Thus I was due a full redundancy payout from EYMS.....until, that is, one bright spark in EYMS management , who obviously 'knew' me..realised I actually lived in a village only 7 miles away from the nearest [big bus] EYMS depot...Driffield! [I used to ride 20 miles each way to Scarborough to work...]

So they 'created' a vacancy there, where none actually existed, just to 'offer' me the 'reasonable alternative'....refusal of which meant I would get nowt from them! So I ended up at Driffield..which wasn't so bad after all, even if my presence on the Monday morning quite surprised the depot manager, who knew absolutely nothing about it whatsoever! Nobody from Hull had bothered to tell him!

As it was, being a 'local' bus driver, here & there, for well over 12 years, we [all] knew each other....which was useful.  In fact, for quite a while there was little in the way of 'new' blood arriving, but quite a few changes of 'old hands' as we came & went, so to speak. [The manager had, briefly, been my conductor when I first drove for EYMS, before he went off to be a jumper....]. I had worked with nearly all the other drivers at some time or other anyway, as we all did, in the east & north yorkshire area.   

Anyway, there I stayed until I left the industry for good, to work as an instructor for the Mod...and, guess what...? I still found myself a colleague of many of the old hands who worked on the buses locally.....Corpo, Yorkies, and various others...

Now, EYMS , as was....ended up buying out all the small local coach operators in the Scarborough and Brid areas...They even took over National Travel...

One old driver had been made redundant from EYMS three times in total....getting his due monies as well!  [Made redundant late 1970's, went to work for  a local Scarborough coach firm Wallies Trolleys, Hardwicks-as-was], who got bought out by EYMS, so offered redundancy again..took it, went to work for another small local bus company, {Primrose Valley Coaches] who were subsequently taken over by EYMs, offered redundancy yet again, then went onto take up a vacancy with EYMS itself, so ended up at Driffield Depot...good ol' Charlie Ross!...A real rural local, used to take very August off to go harvesting, whether the boss liked it or not.  Yet more redundancy offers, which he took, then retired...

Edited October 26, 2021 by alastairq

[Moxy]

I have to agree with Alistair, bus deregulation was a sorry saga.

 

Does bring back some memories though. I was born & brought up in Preston, and I remember one of the new local operators traded as 'Zippy Bus,' using mostly Leyland Sherpa minibuses (dreadful vehicles).  They competed with both Preston Corporation Buses & Ribble Motors. 

 

Preston Bus Station was owned by the Corporation who only allocated 2 bays to Zippy Bus. (39 & 40 IIRC). These bays were designed for full size double deckers, but it wasn't unknown to see 9 of their Leyland Sherpa minibuses squeezed into the 2 bays, 3 abreast & 3 deep.

 

Zippy Bus ended up being taken over by Ribble (who had in turn already been taken over by Stagecoach).

 

My late father & mother both worked for Ribble Motors, in fact I think that is where they met.  My dad retired in 1979 after 33 years service and passed away in 1984, 2 yrs before Stagecoach got their claws into Ribble. I don't think he would have been impressed with deregulation. 'Stagecoach Ribble' today is a pale shadow of what it was under the Tilling Group & National Bus Company ownership.

[Johann Marsbar]

16 minutes ago, Moxy said:

I have to agree with Alistair, bus deregulation was a sorry saga.

 

Does bring back some memories though. I was born & brought up in Preston, and I remember one of the new local operators traded as 'Zippy Bus,' using mostly Leyland Sherpa minibuses (dreadful vehicles).  They competed with both Preston Corporation Buses & Ribble Motors. 

 

 

 

I did lower myself to taking a photo of one of their delightful vehicles once.....

 

 

 

 

 

[Moxy]

4 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

I did lower myself to taking a photo of one of their delightful vehicles once.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's one of the other half of their fleet, based on a Iveco Daily.  Better that the Sherpa, but not by much.

[John M Upton]

The by then independent once again Brighton & Hove (effectively the old BH&D as was) went for a couple of batches of minibuses, two types in the form of effectively converted bread vans from Mercedes plus the marginally better but very bouncy at the back end Iveco Daily with Robin Hood bodywork:

The fact they were replaced reasonably quickly by larger Mercedes minibuses which were nearly new ex Bournemouth told a story and they were soon ousted by larger vehicles and now its all back to double deckers again.

 

Brighton Buses (aka Brighton Borough Transport or just The Corporation) still existed then and also went for minibuses, unfortunately what they went for was the utterly dreadful Dodge/Renault S56:

 

It was worse in Worthing, no picture unfortunately but there was Access Cars who ran a weird cheap as chips service using what was basically a pair of converted VW camper vans.  There is YouTube video of buses in Worthing in the 1980's with them featured somewhere.

 

It was said that Harry Blundred was the man to blame for much of the minibus mania.  He apparently managed to secure a discounted job lot of end of model Ford Transit's when the design changed from the flat nose bonnet to the more modern sloped type and effectively did wholesale conversions of operators such as Devon General with nearly all their full size buses getting thrown out in favour of the infamous army of Bread Vans as they became known.

 

Southdown, pre Stagecoach dabbled with a few Mercedes minibuses but in the end stuck to full size ones, taking the opportunity to mop up second hand Bristol VR's and Leyland Nationals, many of them displaced by Harry Blundred's Bread Vans as it happens.  They did not bother buying any new buses post deregulation other than the few small minibuses until they invested in the dozen Volvo B10M deckers which ironically only just scraped into service as Stagecoach took over.

 

They were big them!!!

Edited October 26, 2021 by John M Upton

[J. S. Bach]

1 hour ago, Johann Marsbar said:

I did lower myself to taking a photo of one of their delightful vehicles once.....

I would not mind having the headsign set out of one of those no matter how dreadful the buses really were! One of my other hobbies. A couple that I have:

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by J. S. Bach
To add some information.

[Gwiwer]

9 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

It was said that Harry Blundred was the man to blame for much of the minibus mania.  He apparently managed to secure a discounted job lot of end of model Ford Transit's when the design changed from the flat nose bonnet to the more modern sloped type and effectively did wholesale conversions of operators such as Devon General with nearly all their full size buses getting thrown out in favour of the infamous army of Bread Vans as they became known.

 

Southdown, pre Stagecoach dabbled with a few Mercedes minibuses but in the end stuck to full size ones, taking the opportunity to mop up second hand Bristol VR's and Leyland Nationals, many of them displaced by Harry Blundred's Bread Vans as it happens.

Harry Blundred, known disrespectfully to some in the industry as "Harry Blundered" was indeed the man responsible for the cohorts of breadvans.  What John didn't mention is that this same Harry Blundred had been General Manager (iirc) of Southdown prior to his arrival in Exeter.  He showed no signs along the Sussex coast of what was to come farther west sticking firmly to full-size buses though with "Blundred touches" such as rear number blinds and, in some cases, rear destinations too long after these had ceased to be seen anywhere outside London.  Dual-door vehicles featured when they were out of favour with his task-masters at NBC.  The unique batch of convertible-top, dual-door centre-staircase Bristol VRTs had his influence written all over them.  

 

Exeter quickly became the first "Transit City" in England with almost all urban routes converted to the type followed by inter-urban and rural routes which gained later Mercedes 709s.  The industry watched.  Slowly the industry also copied.  The minibus revolution gained pace and we had a nation of Transits, Mercedes 608s, Freight Rover Sherpas and Iveco Dailys doing things they were never designed to do. And other even less successful types such as the Dodge S56 and the sadly ignored but supremely stylish Bedford JJL of which Brighton ended up running the only four ever built.  

 

This blog post may be of interest.  I particularly like the description of Blundred: "To say that (he) was slightly unconventional is like saying that Brian Souter is slightly Scottish."  
https://www.transportinvestment.co.uk/news-and-about-us/blog-25-sep-2017

 

Blundred died in 2017.  His minibus legacy pre-deceased him.  His influence on the industry will last for as long as written history remains.  I had the (dis)pleasure of driving many a 608 around Cornwall and even for engineering changeovers between west Cornwall and Plymouth  .  We later got some 709s which were slightly bigger and with Plaxton coach-built bodies at least felt like a small bus.  Then we got 811s which were a step up again and shortly afterwards Dennis the Dart came along and the minibus's days were numbered.  Blundred's Southdown only ever operated a tiny number of minibuses - 608Ds out of Eastbourne - though had trialled a pair of Ford O609s a few years earlier on lengthy once-a-week cross country shopper's routes 288/289 between Kirdford and Chichester / Worthing and cross-town service 362 in Petersfield.  

[J. S. Bach]

5 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 ...snip... with "Blundred touches" such as rear number blinds  ...snip...

They are in favor over here and have been for some years:

 

5 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 ...snip... a nation of Transits, Mercedes 608s, Freight Rover Sherpas and Iveco Dailys doing things they were never designed to do. ...snip...

 

There was a company over here called DIVCO that made a very successful line of milk delivery (and other products) trucks, they experiment by offering a minibus that was not built on the truck chassis. Unfortunately, at that time, there really was not the demand for that type of vehicle so not too many were built. A friend has one but it needs far too much work to ever be presentable again.

 

5 minutes ago, Gwiwer said: