Are Planning Regs fit for purpose.

[jjb1970]

If the shop spreads the customer base too thinly then that'll be reflected in sales and there will be a correction. If all of the shops are trading healthily and making a sufficient return then whilst an additional shop may not be "needed" there is clearly sufficient demand to support it.

[jjb1970]

Oh the indecision on which branded bag to carry to put the shopping in.

You see them in car parks opening the boot of the 4x4 and putting their Tesco/Asda/Lidl plastic bags into a Waitrose bag to carry out when they get home!

 

Keith

 

I think the preconceptions about Aldi and Lidl have changed. We do a lot of our shopping at Aldi as not only do they offer very competitive prices I also find that the quality of most of their wares is excellent. And I don't mean excellent for the price, I find many of their goods are excellent if compared against much more expensive stuff from M&S and Waitrose. I have no issue being seen in Aldi and looking around me when I go there their customer base is far removed from the old stereotypes.

[chris p bacon]

Dave said that the Tesco was needed where he lived. He did not comment on yours.

Aaaaah no, the first part of my answer was related to Keith's post although he hadn't mentioned the existing stores.

 

I would say that taking Tesco as the example they have closed their non profit making stores and in the case of one very large supermarket (Chatteris?) built it but never opened as the market changed, so I would wonder that if it didn't get the footfall and make a profit it wouldn't be there. The fact that there is a half full Sainsbury's nearby might be the same as Biggleswade where you find it the most expensive to use.

 

Although Keith doesn't like what he ended up with there isn't a lot planning can do to refuse applications such as this, in this case it sounds like a commercial/retail property which was asking for variation of use.  The LPA have to have absolutely sound legal argument for refusing or changing the legally obtained existing opening hours. Tesco could easily argue that if they turned it back into a fuel station (its first and primary use) then the traffic could increase.

[melmerby]

I think the preconceptions about Aldi and Lidl have changed. We do a lot of our shopping at Aldi as not only do they offer very competitive prices I also find that the quality of most of their wares is excellent. And I don't mean excellent for the price, I find many of their goods are excellent if compared against much more expensive stuff from M&S and Waitrose. I have no issue being seen in Aldi and looking around me when I go there their customer base is far removed from the old stereotypes.

We shop at Asda, Morrisons, Aldi, Marks & Waitrose depending what is required.

We don't use Tesco because we don't find anything they sell that isn't better value elsewhere. Sainsbury's we find a little pricey without any obvious benefit in quality, although their cut flowers are good.

We don't normally use Lidl because there isn't one on our normal shopping "routes" although I would rate them similarly to Aldi, (who do extremely good value chocolate and alcohol!)

 

Morrisons and Asda both seem to be on a slippery slope downwards with reducing variety of goods and especially at Morrisons, poor quality control of products (plenty of out of date and/or damaged products still on the shelves.

 

Quite telling was Morrisons winning "grocer of the year" from some body or other and IIRC coming bottom of a customer satisfaction survey at the same time!

 

In Bromsgrove centre ,one of our regular shopping haunts, Waitrose have just opened a "mini" and the car park is already full, as yet there is no Lidl in the area and the only Tesco (an express) is way on the outskirts.

 

Keith

 

EDIT, I've found plenty of useful tools for modelling at Aldi, even got a good bench pillar drill.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think the preconceptions about Aldi and Lidl have changed. We do a lot of our shopping at Aldi as not only do they offer very competitive prices I also find that the quality of most of their wares is excellent. And I don't mean excellent for the price, I find many of their goods are excellent if compared against much more expensive stuff from M&S and Waitrose. I have no issue being seen in Aldi and looking around me when I go there their customer base is far removed from the old stereotypes.

Lidl has some very good stuff that yo don't even see in some of the mainstream shops e.g. roo steaks. We had a shop close in Shaftesbury recently (formerly Somerfield, Coop) and I am hoping that will become an Aldi.

[chris p bacon]

Both Aldi and Lidl have opened new stores on the outer limits of St Neots, it seems that people are opposed to out of town development until it's something they want. Lidl already have a store in the centre of town and now have a second.

Going slightly off topic here but the expansion that both German supermarkets are following and the borrowing they are taking on is reminiscent of Tesco/Sainsbury's etc from a few years ago. 

[Butler Henderson]

The often unpopular turning of pubs into Tescos etc has been made more difficult from today for Tesco etc as they will now need full planning permission rather than the washed down prior approval that existed before.

[Damo666]

Before anyone asks, yes his plans were approved even though they did not comply to several building regs including over development of his land.

Hi Loconuts.

 

Just to clarify, so that it helps understand the context and any routes to a solution.

 

Planning Legislation and Building Regulations are separate statutory parts of the building process.

 

Only the Local Authority can grant / refuse a planning application (although there has been talk of de-regularising this). Building Control (the Building Regulations) used to be the preserve of the Local Authority but this can now be administered by independent private approved inspectors. Planning may go this route too.

 

A planning decision will not consider any Building Regulation requirement.

 

You could submit a planning application for an uninhabitable property and it could get planning approval, but you will find that when you come to submitting for Bld Regs approval that you may need to change your approved design. (We recently had to submit new drawings for a client who bought a site with planning and realised you couldn’t stand in the mansard roof, and a bedroom hadn’t any windows).

 

Over development is a planning matter, not a Building Regs matter.

 

HTH.

[jjb1970]

Tesco seemed to become the unacceptable face of retail for a while and became the supermarket equivalent of McDonalds in attracting the ire of those who inhabit the right-on-o-sphere. And given some of the revelations of recent years they probably deserve some degree of opprobrium. I never use their big shops (basically because there is an Aldi and a big Morrisons only a mile away) but our local shop is a Tesco Express which is at the entrance into our estate and only a 7-8 minute walk away and I use that one all the time. I think it's easy to be negative about such shops and look back longingly at shops like Arkwright's in Open All Hours but the reality is that the local Tesco Express has a terrific range of products for a local shop, good prices and is open 06:00-23:00 seven days a week and is a real bonus for the area. Shops are one of those things where the market does tend to work as people vote with their feet (or rather,with their wallets) and if they don't offer something for the customer they won't last (whether that be low prices, convenient location, product range etc), if they do attract sufficient trade to do well then they're offering something of value to their customers.

[96701]

An end of terrace is a semi, by definition.

 

Personally I think greedy builders that "infill" long standing street patterns should be "prevented" but thats how its legislated.

 

Houses should be re-made to suit modern life, not lose their gardens to profit grabbers  

Oh dear. I live in an infill house. I didn't realise that I had peed somebody off by buying it.

[PatB]

Has anyone else noticed that, in modern TV drama, the Lidl or Aldi shopping bag (mainly Lidl now I think about it) has become visual code for "character struggling financially"?

 

And why is it that you Poms can get kangaroo steaks in mainstream supermarkets, but here in the source country the only affordable 'roo meat is questionable quality dog food? If you want the good stuff you're at the mercy of expensive boutique butchers. Or can shoot it/squash it yourself I guess, but I own neither firearm nor roadtrain, so those options are a bit tricky .

[Guest]

Has anyone else noticed that, in modern TV drama, the Lidl or Aldi shopping bag (mainly Lidl now I think about it) has become visual code for "character struggling financially"?

 

Indeed. It works both ways though, because I often get some distasteful looks when walking around Lidl in Cromer with my sustainable Fortnum & Mason and Harrods bags... the tweed jacket, monocle and deerstalker probably doesn't help either.

 

On the subject of Tesco, which this thread has somehow veered onto, there was a ten year campaign by the residents and shopkeepers of sleepy Sheringham to keep the store out of the town. Tesco eventually won and yes, you've guessed it... the most vociferous campaigners can now be seen at the tills stocking up on Clubcard points. People are fickle. Tesco have actually improved the numbers using the traditional shops on the high street by virtue of their massive free car park which allows you to stay for 3 hours in season and 4 hours out of season. One man's meat is another man's poison etc etc.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 One man's meat is another man's poison etc etc.

 

Don't mention the Tesco horseburgers!

 

Mike.

[Guest]

Don't mention the Tesco horseburgers!

 

I'm quite partial to those, but I always have trouble finding the barcode, usually resulting in an "unexpected item in the bagging area" moment...

 

[bgman]

Could be a whole lot worse....

 

 

E.Cowarrior

[Loconuts]

Could be a whole lot worse....

 

image.jpeg

 

E.Cowarrior

 

I like that, very rustic.

[Reorte]

I like that, very rustic.

In a Mad Max way.

[The Stationmaster]

Has anyone else noticed that, in modern TV drama, the Lidl or Aldi shopping bag (mainly Lidl now I think about it) has become visual code for "character struggling financially"?

 

And why is it that you Poms can get kangaroo steaks in mainstream supermarkets, but here in the source country the only affordable 'roo meat is questionable quality dog food? If you want the good stuff you're at the mercy of expensive boutique butchers. Or can shoot it/squash it yourself I guess, but I own neither firearm nor roadtrain, so those options are a bit tricky .

 

Not with you, I've eaten some excellent 'roo meat in Aus and a couple of pals who live out there usually buy it when there's a cull on and it's cheap.

 

Not that that has anything at all to do with UK Planning even if Tesco has.  they have been involved in a major battle witha vociferous minority of locals in Goring over their plan (finally approved this year) to convert a former pub near the station into a Tesco Express type outlet - it will no doubt be heaving from dawn to dusk when it finally opens.

 

But there is a very noisy minority in Goring who seem to object to anything and everything - GWML electrification has been one target while the scheme to put hydro -electric turbines in the river has been another.  They simply use the planning system to stop or try to delay things they don't like in a sort of tyranny of the minority approach to life.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think one can often gauge an LPA's attitude to planning by what they call their department/committee responsible for planning.

 

Here, it is called Development Control.

[Colin_McLeod]

In Cork it is called Strategic planning and economic development.

[wombatofludham]

I think one can often gauge an LPA's attitude to planning by what they call their department/committee responsible for planning.

 

Here, it is called Development Control.

 

Actually Development Control is the correct name for the section determining planning applications where separate teams exist.  Those that prepare the Local Development Framework (or Local Plan) are usually referred to as the Planning Policy or Local Planning team.  Some authorities do have combined DC and policy teams but to be honest such is the pressure on DC that preparation of the LDF or site planning briefs can be compromised.

 

​I did eighteen months in Development Control to get my Chartered membership of the Royal Town Planning Institute and it was the most hateful job I have ever had.  Horrible applicants wanting to build a 40 bed extension on their garden, vile neighbours who objected to things based on the fact they were jealous of their neighbours, and people who seemed to think that the rules only applied to others and not them.  I gladly moved over to policy and strategy as fast as I could get my application forms in.  Continually underfunded and constantly being pilloried I have nothing but respect for DC officers, even those who come across a bit officious, as I wouldn't do it if they paid me a fortune.

[Butler Henderson]

And to muddy the waters a Tory objective yet to be enacted is the opening up of Development Control to competition. The determining authority would remain the local council but the admin and writing of the report could be carried out by any approved person.

[wombatofludham]

And to muddy the waters a Tory objective yet to be enacted is the opening up of Development Control to competition. The determining authority would remain the local council but the admin and writing of the report could be carried out by any approved person.

 

Funnily enough that was on the agenda when I was doing my Planning degree back in 1986.  Some councils have privatised their DC sections by tendering it out to planning consultancies.  I personally think that opens up the service to greater criticism as the ill-informed public will assume the development control service is favouring "their mates" in the development industry, especially when the consultancy is one of the larger multi-disciplinary consulting firms, even though their decisions will be subject to Council scrutiny and their contract will have strict no-conflict of interest clauses and procedures.

 

​I can honestly say I managed to achieve more that bettered the lives of people once I got into policy, strategy and transport-town planning co-ordination than I ever achieved in DC.  It's a constant conveyor belt of fire fighting and abuse and there isn't time to do more than follow procedures and ticking boxes, so if there are decisions that come into the "wtf?" category it's almost certainly down to under trained, under resourced officers, or contrary councillors.  My degree gave me no preparation for Development Control and you are pretty much dropped into it.  I hereby apologise to all the residents of Atherstone, Mancetter and Coleshill if my inexperience and ineptitude between 1987 and 1989 has given you grief ever since...

[Butler Henderson]

Difference with the current proposal is that a number of providers could be dealing with applications in one Councils area, possibility stalled because an obvious issue is there will be confusion for anyone wanting to object knowing who to write to, leaving aside suspicions of a provider being in a developers pocket. 

[chris p bacon]

 leaving aside suspicions of a provider being in a developers pocket. 

I guess what narks me the most about planning and development is when a decision gets made that some people don't agree with, the assumption is that there is corruption in one form or other. 

 

I've said it quite a few times, that if it was possible to bribe my way through planning it would be far cheaper than what it is now. But the reality, is that although I know the local planning officers well through the many projects I've done, there isn't the merest hint of favouritism shown or expected.  They are after all professional people trying to do a thankless task.