First D-Trains ready for sale

[Coryton]

If I recall correctly 158s are barred on some of the Valley lines, though I don't know why. 

 

OK on the Rhymney line (including Coryton) but not Pontypridd and beyond, I think.

 

Sadly 43's and Mk3 coaches don't seem very welcome in the Valleys so HST replacements for the Pacers appear to be out...

[corneliuslundie]

If 158s are barred would Mk3s or HSTs be as well? I imagine the dimensions are much the same. Ant therefore what about 156s?

Jonathan

[Hesperus]

It sounds like they have 5 options then;

 

a,  150's

 

b,  230's

 

c,  Diesel converted 455 or similar

 

d,  New build

 

e, refurb 143/144 pacers to DDA compliant spec

 

I doubt there is time to commission new build stock to be in service before 2020 and I'm not convinced that they have time to get 455 convertions into service on time either.  150's might be possible with a complicated rolling stock cascade (HST>221>175>158>150?) which would be fine under BR but even more complicated with different operators and contracts.

 

I think ATW/DFT need to pull their fingers out and order the 230's pronto before the only option is removing the toilets from the Pacer fleet to make them DDA compliant and being stuck with them for another ten years.

[black and decker boy]

 

 

I think ATW/DFT need to pull their fingers out and order the 230's pronto before the only option is removing the toilets from the Pacer fleet to make them DDA compliant and being stuck with them for another ten years.

 

Sadly neither ATW of DfT have any jurisdiction now, Rail matters in Wales rest with the Welsh Government whos grand plan, it seems, was to let all of the English TOCs take the grief and upgrade their DMUs and for the new Welsh franchise to simply receive them as a cascade in 2019. There is also the issue of WAG wanting to convert the valley lines north of Queen street to light rail \ metro which in itself would mean no new DMUs are required. 

 

Unfortunately, the UK wide cascade is running late and other English TOCs such as Northern have been able to get in first for the few crumbs available in 2018 and 19.

[corneliuslundie]

As I understand it matters have been devolved to the Welsh Assembly which has chosen a shortlist of four favoured contenders for the new franchise, though there have not yet been any formal proposals.

So when it all goes pear shaped it will be the fault of the franchise winner not the politicians, of course.

Jonathan

[Coryton]

If 158s are barred would Mk3s or HSTs be as well? I imagine the dimensions are much the same. Ant therefore what about 156s?

Jonathan

 

As above, in the Valleys 158's on some lines, Mk3's/class 43s on very little.

 

153/155/156//158/159 all seem to be as 158's. 

[The Johnster]

If ATW need to pull their finger out, they shouldn't have stuck it in there in the first place.  

 

My apologies, it was irresistible...

[Pete the Elaner]

When I first read that D stock was going to be converted to DEMU, the stated max speed was 40mph. I thought that was a ridiculous idea.

60mph is a little better but it is still the slowest passenger stock on the network, which seems very backward to me.

 

Concorde was grounded in 2003, ending supersonic passenger flight.

75mph units now replaced by 60mph units.

Cars are slower now than 30 years ago, not because of the cars themselves but because roads are more congested.

What happens in 2020? Will we be back to horse & cart or should I just cycle everywhere?

[Coryton]

When I first read that D stock was going to be converted to DEMU, the stated max speed was 40mph. I thought that was a ridiculous idea.

60mph is a little better but it is still the slowest passenger stock on the network, which seems very backward to me.

75mph units now replaced by 60mph units.

 

Well I wouldn't say the D train is an example of a general trend towards slower trains.

 

And so far they haven't replaced anything, 75 mph units or otherwise.

 

Concorde was grounded in 2003, ending supersonic passenger flight.

 

And NASA used to fly the space shuttle and - when they get round to it - it will be replaced with Apollo style capsules.

 

But the truth is that Concorde never made financial sense (even less so in a world with so much better electronic communication) and the Space Shuttle concept didn't really work - it was horrendously expensive and much more dangerous than a conventional rocket and capsule.

 

You can pick things that look like (or maybe even are) backwards steps, but on the whole technology is moving forwards.

[Joseph_Pestell]

As I understand it matters have been devolved to the Welsh Assembly which has chosen a shortlist of four favoured contenders for the new franchise, though there have not yet been any formal proposals.

So when it all goes pear shaped it will be the fault of the franchise winner not the politicians, of course.

Jonathan

Yes, of course. That's the real reason why the railways were privatised.

[Joseph_Pestell]

As above, in the Valleys 158's on some lines, Mk3's/class 43s on very little.

 

153/155/156//158/159 all seem to be as 158's. 

 

Certain units/locos may be banned from a line not because they would be out-of-gauge but because no work has been done to prove that they would be within gauge.

[D854_Tiger]

Certain units/locos may be banned from a line not because they would be out-of-gauge but because no work has been done to prove that they would be within gauge.

 

I thought a computer program could determine that nowadays.

 

I believe Network Rail's asset management has moved on quite a bit from BR days, when it existed mostly in a few people's heads and unfortunately the heads of quite a few people that took their retirement.

[Zomboid]

If they've never been needed that way before then there's not going to be any reason for the guaging work to have been done. They can't really give a driver instructions to "stop if you hit something".

 

"Banned" is probably the wrong term. "Not yet authorised" is probably more accurate.

[HillsideDepot]

I thought a computer program could determine that nowadays.

 

I believe Network Rail's asset management has moved on quite a bit from BR days, when it existed mostly in a few people's heads and unfortunately the heads of quite a few people that took their retirement.

I was shown some photos today of the clearance trials GWR have conducted at night recently to operate Turbo DMUs on the Severn Beach line. They stopped at every station at the agreed point and took photographs of every doorway with a big multi-coloured triangle gauge between train and platform, this was done with both 2 car and 3 car units. I'm sure there was even more to it than that as the trial runs ran from last train to first train, but we were sharing operating at a show and talking about this work when no one was viewing the layout. It seems rather more involved than simply asking "will it get there without hitting anything?"

[jim.snowdon]

That's not to establish gauge clearance but to check the stepping distances between platform and train, and frequently undertaken by the TOC, not NR.

 

Jim

[Christopher125]

'Riding the D-Train'

 

Citytransportinfo has uploaded a fascinating 7min video of 230001's shuttle workings, and IMO the unit is very impressive - bright and airy interior and surprisingly unobtrusive engine noise.

[woodenhead]

Looks nicer than a Northern 150 inside, I wouldn't be unhappy to see those

[wombatofludham]

Interesting video.  Compared to a Pacer these units are looking very good.  I could really see these being ideal for the Cardiff Valleys as a stop-gap whilst electrification is being batted around, I'm sure a six car Metro spec D train compared to a four car Pacer would actually be welcomed by many.

Edited July 2, 2017 by wombatofludham

[stewartingram]

Suddenly we have positive vibes appearing..............

 

Stewart

[br2975]

If I recall correctly 158s are barred on some of the Valley lines, though I don't know why. 

They were  cleared on the Rhymney line, many moons ago, and they have also worked the 'Taff' lines at least as far as Radyr/Taffs Well.

[Gordon Connell]

Looks like an agreement to actually use these has been agreed.

 

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/d-trains-ordered-for-bedford-bletchley.html

[jjb1970]

On the Marston Vale line I can't help feeling these will be a step backwards from the 150 and 153 that work the service. I know there are accessibility compliance issues with the 153 but a refresh of the 150 would probably give a better result than the D Train I think.

[melmerby]

I wonder whether any gauge clearance would be necessary for these trains as the Met loading gauge is quite wide?

The D78 trains are 9' 4" wide (the new S Stock is even wider at 9' 7"!)

 

Interior looks OK to be.

 

Keith

Edited March 2, 2018 by melmerby

[Coryton]

I wonder whether any gauge clearance would be necessary for these trains as the Met loading gauge is quite wide?

The D78 trains are 9' 4" wide (the new S Stock is even wider at 9' 7"!)

 

Interior looks OK to be.

 

Keith

 

I would hope that by now somebody has thought of that.

[08221]

On the Marston Vale line I can't help feeling these will be a step backwards from the 150 and 153 that work the service. I know there are accessibility compliance issues with the 153 but a refresh of the 150 would probably give a better result than the D Train I think.

They will hopefully be more reliable than the ageing 150 and 153units currently in use. Failures are commonplace at present and often that knocks on throughout the day until another unit is sent from Tyseley.

 

Their interiors are far more modern and clean - the branch will be a good proving ground for them and I wish everyone involved success with the contract.

 

Just need a 00 gauge one now for my Bedford St Giles layout!