Trouble with Varnish

[602Squadron]

I've been using Humbrol varnishes with no problems for about 50 years, but recently their matt varnish, both in brush-on and spray forms, has been drying with a nasty grey residue. This is not an isolated issue - three tinlets and two spray cans purchased separately at different outlets over the last year have all produced the same effect.

 

I've tried Tamiya flat clear in spray form, which gives a very nice finish on the Halfords car matt black I use for locos, but reacts with the gloss varnish I usually apply under waterslide transfers to leave a badly bubbled surface, although it doesn't affect the transfers themselves. It's also now had the same effect on Railmatch enamel paint, which means I am going to have to strip and repaint a whole rake of wagons.

 

The varnishes are always well stirred with an electric paint stirrer, the spray can is properly shaken, and the paint that has been affected on the wagons had been dried for between three and eight days.

 

Has anybody had similar experiences, or am I doing something wrong? Can anybody recommend another product?

[steve1]

Not had problems with Humbrol matt rattle cans myself. Have tried Testor's Dullcote? https://www.modeldisplayproducts.co.uk/testors-dullcote

 

Also Precision do a matt https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/primersandvarnish/varnishes

 

steve

[JZ]

I also use Tamiya after problems with Humbrol. I now paint a patch slightly bigger than the decal with AK Interactive Water Effects liquid. Had no problems overspraying this.

[Guy Rixon]

Railmatch varnish works well for me, on acrylic and enamel paint and on transfers.

[john new]

I've been using Humbrol varnishes with no problems for about 50 years, but recently their matt varnish, both in brush-on and spray forms, has been drying with a nasty grey residue. This is not an isolated issue - three tinlets and two spray cans purchased separately at different outlets over the last year have all produced the same effect.

 

I've tried Tamiya flat clear in spray form, which gives a very nice finish on the Halfords car matt black I use for locos, but reacts with the gloss varnish I usually apply under waterslide transfers to leave a badly bubbled surface, although it doesn't affect the transfers themselves. It's also now had the same effect on Railmatch enamel paint, which means I am going to have to strip and repaint a whole rake of wagons.

 

The varnishes are always well stirred with an electric paint stirrer, the spray can is properly shaken, and the paint that has been affected on the wagons had been dried for between three and eight days.

 

Has anybody had similar experiences, or am I doing something wrong? Can anybody recommend another product?

Can't comment as a user but sure I saw a similar post about Dullcoat a few days ago. Is it a change of formula? Edited July 25, 2017 by john new

[Phil Bullock]

Similar issue here with Humbrol gloss enamel on a couple of Bachmann warships....

 

Phil

[kandc_au]

Just a thought out of left field.
It's not moisture trapped from spraying in humid conditions, is it.

In which case it will need to dry out thoroughly!

 

Khris

[cobach47]

the only varnish i trust is purity seal spray from games workshop about £10.50 a large can gives a semi-matt finish like this

[PaulCheffus]

I've been using Humbrol varnishes with no problems for about 50 years, but recently their matt varnish, both in brush-on and spray forms, has been drying with a nasty grey residue. This is not an isolated issue - three tinlets and two spray cans purchased separately at different outlets over the last year have all produced the same effect.

 

I've tried Tamiya flat clear in spray form, which gives a very nice finish on the Halfords car matt black I use for locos, but reacts with the gloss varnish I usually apply under waterslide transfers to leave a badly bubbled surface, although it doesn't affect the transfers themselves. It's also now had the same effect on Railmatch enamel paint, which means I am going to have to strip and repaint a whole rake of wagons.

 

The varnishes are always well stirred with an electric paint stirrer, the spray can is properly shaken, and the paint that has been affected on the wagons had been dried for between three and eight days.

 

Has anybody had similar experiences, or am I doing something wrong? Can anybody recommend another product?

Hi

 

The last two tins of Humbrol matt varnish I bought were the same. I am currently using Dullcote but that relies on good weather as I can't spray in the house.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jonas]

The Games Workshop stuff is decent as Cobash47 says, although more satin than matt. I've had good results from Windsor and Newton spray matt varnish, bought from an independent art shop recently as an experiment. Not cheap but good, dead matt results!

[RexAshton]

You can spray or brush enamel onto acrylic but not the other way. The solvent in the acrylic will attack the enamel and cause it to bubble the same way that cellulose would. I've always had success with Railmatch but I've not had problems with Humbrol either. You have to be careful not to put too much on at once though.

[Quarryscapes]

You can spray or brush enamel onto acrylic but not the other way. The solvent in the acrylic will attack the enamel and cause it to bubble the same way that cellulose would. I've always had success with Railmatch but I've not had problems with Humbrol either. You have to be careful not to put too much on at once though.

 

Only applies to solvent based acrylics, you can spray water based over anything. 

[micklner]

the only varnish i trust is purity seal spray from games workshop about £10.50 a large can gives a semi-matt finish like thisPB281940.JPG

 

See other threads on here re the current version of Games Workshop varnish problems.

 

They changed the cans to a Yellow colour and on using these cans, blooming occurred on every occasion , can warmed, low humidity etc etc.

 

I now use Halfords Satin Varnish , it is  bit shiny but no blooming, and it does not attack enamel paint as the Games stuff does. The shine can be reduced with a coat of Dullcote on top if needed.

[The Johnster]

I use Tamiya matt acrylic varnish as the top coat of all my models, and to seal transfers, but water it down about 60% warm water and apply in thin coats; two are usually enough but a third if I'm not happy.  That way you can build the finish up to the state you want it to be, which in my case is definitely not gloss; if I can see a glint or a reflection on a model, another coat of matt goes on immediately.  Even locos like the King photographed which were well kept and highly polished looked fairly matt from more than about 20 feet away on all but the brightest sunny days, and even close up viewing of models is usually from a scale distance more like a coach length, 60 odd scale feet.  

 

Then, of course, having achieved a beautiful finish, I weather it.  My landlord's property agent, a lady very fussy about spotless presentation and things being kept in good order which is one of the things that makes her good at her job, visited recently, and her face on being told that my models are actually clean but that I have deliberately painted them to look dirty was something quite wonderful!

[Georgeconna]

Dump the Humbrol, Had the Same issue which ruined some plastic models I was finishing off.

 

I now use Alclad Varnishes and won't be looking back. nice and easy too use and dries quickly.

 

heres a link below

 

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/alclad-ii-4oz-matt-klear-kote-varnish/

[602Squadron]

Many thanks to everybody who's contributed to this thread. That's been really useful and I appreciate your help. 

[wellseasoned]

There has been quite a number of posts on forums re' the curent Humbrol products. Maybe Humbrol have changed their formula?

 

I came across some of their Authentic railway colours at a boot sale, going for a song. They must be all of 40 years old, yet given a good stir they are fautless. Not impressed with their current day acrylics though.

 

My daughters partner does a lot of Warhammer, and he said they changed their paint formula...for the worse.

 

Dullcoat . A couple of years back I used some of this on a loco I hade spent a considerable amount of time lining. The Dullcote melted the Modelmaster decals...sick as a pig I can tell you!   Next time around I sealed the decals with...Humbrol gloss varnish, then Dullcote and no problems.

 

I like Tamiya acrylics, and their matt varnish has been o.k. so far. I am restoring/repainting a fair number of N gauge S.D. plaster buildings with mainly Tamiya acrylics, so will stick with their matt varnish to seal them.

[The Johnster]

Another reason I use acrylics, if not exclusively then to the greatest extent that I can manage, is that my modelling is confined to my bedroom, which is in the living area of a small flat in a house converted to flats in which other people are living.  Smells are an issue that has to be kept an eye on, both for my own comfort and that of the neighbours. If there is any enamal or rattlecan painting to be done, it has to be done outside and wait for a suitably dry, calm, and dustless day to do it on; touch wood none has been necessary for a very long time!

 

In a perfect world I would have a properly ventilated and filtered workshop, but in the real world have to make do with what is available and use that to the best of my ability.

[john new]

Has anyone used the Windsor & Newton artists ranges to give rating on?

 

There several specialist art shops in towns near to me but the toy/model shops only have a limited range of mostly war gamers paints so next time I need any artists varnishes and fixatives will be easier to get hold of than their modelling equivalents. The locally sourced W&N may be more expensive than mail ordering but available on the day over the counter.

Edited August 2, 2017 by john new

[The Johnster]

Not had any experience of W & N/'proper' artists acrylics, but the ones in tubes will need thinning for any practical purposes on a model anyway, which should make them go further and this needs to be factored in to the cost consideration, to their benefit.  I would suggest the purchase of a colour wheel to assist in mixing to get correct colours.  They will be designed to mix readily and easily.

 

The other problem will presuambly be the storage of quantities of the correct colours once you've mixed them, as no two mixes are ever going to be identical whatever the quantities and however carefully you measure them, so you will need a range of jars or sealable pots to keep them in.  All sounds do-able though.

 

Their ability to be handled, resist damp, take varnishes, resist fading and so on will be an unknown on a model; they will be formulated to 'take' best on paper or canvas, or surfaces prepared for artitisic work rather than plastics or metal.

 

A decent artist's dealer will be able to offer a wider range of brushes of a higher quality than I'd expect from even a good model shop.

[john new]

Not had any experience of W & N/'proper' artists acrylics, but the ones in tubes will need thinning for any practical purposes on a model anyway, which should make them go further and this needs to be factored in to the cost consideration, to their benefit.  I would suggest the purchase of a colour wheel to assist in mixing to get correct colours.  They will be designed to mix readily and easily.

 

The other problem will presuambly be the storage of quantities of the correct colours once you've mixed them, as no two mixes are ever going to be identical whatever the quantities and however carefully you measure them, so you will need a range of jars or sealable pots to keep them in.  All sounds do-able though.

 

Their ability to be handled, resist damp, take varnishes, resist fading and so on will be an unknown on a model; they will be formulated to 'take' best on paper or canvas, or surfaces prepared for artitisic work rather than plastics or metal.

 

A decent artist's dealer will be able to offer a wider range of brushes of a higher quality than I'd expect from even a good model shop.

Above post is helpful and informative but I was thinking of their varnishes rather than paints in the feed back request. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by john new

[crompton 33]

Has anyone used the Windsor & Newton artists ranges to give rating on?

 

There several specialist art shops in towns near to me but the toy/model shops only have a limited range of mostly war gamers paints so next time I need any artists varnishes and fixatives will be easier to get hold of than their modelling equivalents. The locally sourced W&N may be more expensive than mail ordering but available on the day over the counter.

Hi John .I've only used Windsor & Newton Varnish on Scalescene's kits. It work's OK But the smell is over Powering. 

[jonas]

I've used w&n matt varnish to good effect when I was unable to source and dullcote. It's expensive though!

[John Tomlinson]

Only applies to solvent based acrylics, you can spray water based over anything. 

 

I think this is absolutely right.

 

It does however open a minefield for us modellers as it isn't always clear which is which. For example a lot of the Halfords acrylic products have solvents which attack enamel without mercy, as I've discovered to my cost.

 

So we do need to take care, and leave nothing to hope!

 

John.

[john new]

I think this is absolutely right.

 

It does however open a minefield for us modellers as it isn't always clear which is which. For example a lot of the Halfords acrylic products have solvents which attack enamel without mercy, as I've discovered to my cost.

 

So we do need to take care, and leave nothing to hope!

 

John.

Thanks for the warning. I had assumed acrylic was the standard solvent free option.