RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) There seems to be three main approaches to judging layouts at shows: no judging at all (ie: no accolade for being "best in show"): judging by a small panel of senior members drawn from the host club: and judging by visitors to the show via the use of voting slips. The first smacks of organisational laziness, the second is prone to unconscious bias if any one of the judges is dedicated to a particular gauge or scale. The third way - by using voting slips tucked into the pages of the show guide - is surely the only realistic way of avoiding lack of objectivity in the judging process. Look at it from the viewpoint of a club that, for example, is showing an award-winning 2mm layout and has maybe spent several hours on the road over a long weekend. Their expectations are probably high. Consequently, if there is no award process at all, or if the judging panel is comprised of three members who think large scale scratchbuilt models trump N-gauge layouts, no matter how pretty, there is bound to be dissatisfaction, if not a sense of grievance, to say the least. The prospect of winning recognition at shows is a powerful motivator for modellers. Understanding, addressing and exploiting this incentive is surely worth serious attention by show organisers. The best approach I've seen was to ask the other exhibitors to vote. A show I was at recently had two trophies, one voted by the public and one by the other exhibitors, winners of each category were very different! I've won a couple of pots in the past, best in show voted by the public, and as Rich said, this will normally go to the big roundy roundy as it did in our case. The other trophy I won was the Ken Mackay Memorial Shield, awarded for "imaginative use of DCC on a club layout"... Dagworth is not a club layout, and a lot of what it has doesn't use DCC to do it, I probably was not actually illegible for the trophy in the first place but I'm very proud to have won it! Just to add, in neither case was I even aware that there was a "competition" in progress until I got called to receive the trophy Andi Edited November 7, 2017 by Dagworth 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Surely one "Merit" is in being invited to exhibit at other shows? Or better still, having a future unfinished layout accepted on the basis of the builders reputation? Agreed. It is always very nice when an exhibition manager sees your layout and invites it to his show. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Agreed. It is always very nice when an exhibition manager sees your layout and invites it to his show. My first invite was to the Shipley exhibition by John Anderson. He invited Meopham East Junction unseen and knowing at that particular time it was unfinished. I assured him it would be finished and it was. It was set up on the Friday night and ran just fine. On the Saturday morning it ran just fine again until about ten minutes before opening time. As the main overhead lights came on the controller wireless signal faded away. Tappa of this parish saved the day when he reprogrammed stock to work with a none wireless, kids layout controller by the same manufacturer. We left the show with three invites for the following year. At the second show the same year as the first, I took the layout to Germany and used the visit to buy a Roco Multimaus system and I've never looked back on this purchase. My colleagues at the East Riding Fine Scale group have always worked with the maxim, "Go to a show to educate, be educated and have a good time!" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 Dagworth, that plaque looks to have taken inspiration from your ears (not saying your ears look like a trophy more the amount of metalwork!) Ok i’ll Stop digging now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 Strange the OP doesn't seem to have any evidence to support the statement in response to the discussion that has ensued. There seems to be rather more commenting that it's not that important rather than a motivating factor Do we consider it job done, it's not that important but a bit of harmless fun? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2017 Strange the OP doesn't seem to have any evidence to support the statement in response to the discussion that has ensued. There seems to be rather more commenting that it's not that important rather than a motivating factor Do we consider it job done, it's not that important but a bit of harmless fun? Also strange that the OP hasn't commented on any of the posts either.............. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbe Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I agree with the frequently expressed view here that winning prizes is not why I exhibit my layout. Interaction with the public, other enthusiasts and a good weekend away with friends are my motivations. My layouts have never won a 'Best in Show', nor do I expect it, but a a 5 year old shyly telling me that mine is their favourite can make a whole weekend worthwhile. My own club organsises a 'Most Appealing Layout' vote for the public on the first day. I like this because it is so subjective and there is no sense of ticking boxes of what a model railway 'should' look be. From the club's point of view there are two benefits. Firstly, it gives a focal point for a very informal get together at the venue after the show closes on Saturday night to say thank you and announce the outcome (normally the top 3 votes). Secondly, it gives us feedback on what visitors like to see at the exhibition. I should also say that normally every layout will get at least some votes from the public. Julian 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 298 I'm surprised that my choice of verb offends. I thought that the words "achievement award" were sufficient to convey the fact that they are awarded for achievement, rather than, say, parking in the wrong place, and one of the many definitions of "issue" in the OED is: "Formally send out or make known.", which seems to fit the bill. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 The NMRA issues ‘achievement awards’, up to and including Master (sexist?) Model Railroader, which is an interesting, if possibly ‘not very British’, way of encouraging skill-progression. Please no PC claptrap on here!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 At Exeter we have 2 votes. One by the visiting public and another by the exhibitors. On a couple of occasions one layout has won both, first being Abbey Road. Kev S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) https://m.imgur.com/gallery/OqREAY1 Personally, I built and exhibited a layout for the same reason I formed a band - to make money and get laid as a by-product of fame.* Why else would anyone do this? https://youtu.be/TFwprS_L6tg *I wasn’t successful. Edited November 7, 2017 by Regularity 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 40-something 'PC claptrap' is a weak cover-phrase used by people, notably the editors and journalists of some newspapers, who feel that it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of gender etc. I don't don't think it is acceptable to so discrimate. Do you? And, if you don't, why do you feel upset by me querying (not asserting you will notice) whether the choice of word might be sexist? As it happens, after pondering, I don't think it is being used in a sexist sense. Kevin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 Nobody's mentioned the follow-up of winning a trophy at an exhibition - the open top bus tour of the home town, with thousands of excited supporters shouting and waving their approval. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) Aye, Kevin, it is being used in the sense of gaining mastery. I have never heard of “gaining mistressy”, although it does sound like an intriguing prospect... I have seen the results of MMR achievement awards. The results can be somewhat mystifying, as the Achievement Program is about getting certain results in certain areas, but not all of them, so it is possible to see wonderful scratchbuilt buildings and structures such as trestle bridges in amongst fields of flock powder and “puffball” trees, and scratchbuilt rolling stock bodies of very high fidelity, running on pizza cutter wheels on track composed of miss-sharpen pressings on a moulded base. Now, I have no problems with puffball trees or coarse track per se, but when they are combined with some exquisite craftsmanship in other areas, the mixture is incongruous at best, and frequently disconcerting. I look at the work of the likes of Messrs Gravett, Watson, Nunn, Rice, Norman, Taylor (DLT on here) and do on, and view them as masters of the whole modelling craft, but I cannot see any of them being interested in passing an “Achievement Program”. Nor do I want to: their example is enough to inspire me to try harder. Side note to this, but at a CMRA modeller’s Day a few years back, Trevor Nunn was working on a couple of wagons, but had on display his Great Eastern Railway G14 4-4-0 which includes working Joy’s motion. Iain Rice approached with Tim Watson, and remarked - to Tim’s agreement - “This is the sort of modelling which makes me get down on my knees.” Trevor didn’t hear it, although I made sure to tell him, but man, if I ever get such a quietly mumbled accolade, then nothing on earth will top it. Edited November 7, 2017 by Regularity 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 Nobody's mentioned the follow-up of winning a trophy at an exhibition - the open top bus tour of the home town, with thousands of excited supporters shouting and waving their approval. Maybe they were too busy looking for the groupies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giz Puk Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Nobody's mentioned the follow-up of winning a trophy at an exhibition - the open top bus tour of the home town, with thousands of excited supporters shouting and waving their approval. Do you not find that most of these are Southern Rail commuters trying to get to/from 'The Smoke'???? After all those of us who don't come from the 'Bright lights-Big City' are used to it down 'ere in Zummerzet..... we 'ave Badger Buses and Shanks's pony. Yours Aye, Giz OOOH-AAAAR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Buses for badgers!? Wow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 He also mentioned someone having a shank so impressive that it needed a pony to carry it. Now, that really would be worthy of an award for best in show... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2017 Buses for badgers!? Wow! Of course, here's one now.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) Surely one "Merit" is in being invited to exhibit at other shows? Or better still, having a future unfinished layout accepted on the basis of the builders reputation? It is getting onto the circuit that is often the most difficult part. I put my first layout onto the circuit at the start of 2012 (Furtwangen Ost), and this took a little while to start getting invitations. It took off as a quirky (plus point) small (very much a plus point at some venues) continental (plus point for some show managers) tramway (makes it rare) layout that was getting good feedback from punters. When it came to "Hawthorn Dene I had gained a little kudos in some circles with Furtwangen, and knew the organisers for and was cheap enough to get invitations to Grantham and Sileby shows. Being spotted by Ray Lightfoot for Railway Modeller first time out was a stroke of luck, and the articles in RM and then BRM gave it enough prominence in certain minds to get bookings with bigger shows. The same connections got No Place" its first two shows, and this is now in the slack period where it has been out, been seen to work, and is waiting invites. One invitation only so far as a result of being seen, and one more on the back of Hawthorn Dene's reputation. With the next one (Croft Spa) I'm fortunate that Mike at Sileby will take it unseen (reputation and cheap again). The invitations you get at one show to exhibit at another need a VERY large slice of luck. Someone has to actually attend the show where you are in order to report onwards. Again, changing hats to that of show manager- I try to get new local layouts where available, but with 570 through the door it is very much hit and miss as to whether these new layouts will pick up more bookings as a result of being at South Notts show. This is where a "best in show" or "most authentic layout" award as a strapline on layout publicity helps to get bookings. As I've hinted already, to my mind the real value of a show award is the help it MAY give you in getting another outing. Just a few thoughts Les Edited November 7, 2017 by Les1952 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) They're huge, them Wiltshire brocks, aren't they? I had no idea. Edited November 7, 2017 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 298 I'm surprised that my choice of verb offends. I thought that the words "achievement award" were sufficient to convey the fact that they are awarded for achievement, rather than, say, parking in the wrong place, and one of the many definitions of "issue" in the OED is: "Formally send out or make known.", which seems to fit the bill. Kevin The "Golden Spike" certificate is more of an award, per see- the issue(!) I can see with the Achievement Programme and assessment thereof is although it does encourage doing something by the most difficult route possible which in some ways ought to be celebrated, there are many modellers who have a natural artistic streak and can turn proprietry track and stock into something that looks outstanding, but have probably never built a loco kit or used hand built track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) The invitations you get at one show to exhibit at another need a VERY large slice of luck. Someone has to actually attend the show where you are in order to report onwards. Again, changing hats to that of show manager- I try to get new local layouts where available, but with 570 through the door it is very much hit and miss as to whether these new layouts will pick up more bookings as a result of being at South Notts show. This is where a "best in show" or "most authentic layout" award as a strapline on layout publicity helps to get bookings. As I've hinted already, to my mind the real value of a show award is the help it MAY give you in getting another outing. Just a few thoughts Les Some shows list where the layout is from (if it isn't obvious) in the guide, but this isn't always a clear assessment of whether the layout will be available or what the costs will be. Exhibition managers are definitely using less traditional means than scouting for layouts at other shows to look for their future exhibits (such as websites or eLayouts, magazines and internet forums), unless its just me that seems to be handing out less information sheets....? Then again, there's some shows that I wouldn't want to do that others see as an honour to be invited to. Edited November 7, 2017 by 298 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 40-something 'PC claptrap' is a weak cover-phrase used by people, notably the editors and journalists of some newspapers, who feel that it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of gender etc. I don't don't think it is acceptable to so discrimate. Do you? And, if you don't, why do you feel upset by me querying (not asserting you will notice) whether the choice of word might be sexist? As it happens, after pondering, I don't think it is being used in a sexist sense. Kevin If you have noticed the emoji at the end of my comment you should have noticed that my comment was to be taken lightheartedly I dont think its acceptable to discriminate in any sense, however far far far too many people throw their arms up in the air these days at the slightest thing claiming what has been said/done/implied to be some sort of 'ist'. People are too ready to be outraged these days by nothing Master/Mastery is not a word that and can be taken as sexist, it is a definition of a skilled person. Using Master as in Master of the House is gender specific and would relate to the male head of the house, and thus again not sexist, in the same way Lady, Mistress or Madam isnt sexist but is gender specific Sorry to have taken this off topic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted November 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 7, 2017 Sorry to have taken this off topic Oh, I think we managed to do that some time ago: quite justifiably, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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