Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I hate to even think of criticising such a magnificent layout, but, aren't you a tad deficient in the tail lamp area?, I notice the things at the pointed end are suitably adorned.

 

Mike.

Criticism happily accepted.

 

On the list ... along with corridor connections, better / closer coupling arrangement, weathering underframes scraping off over-size roof ribs, passengers in the interiors ... 🤔

 

At least most locos now have lamps, crews and coal in the tender 🤗

[2750Papyrus]

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the sequence on Sunday.  My apologies for distracting you from your duties as fiddle yard operator - it certainly kept you on your toes and I don't think I could work a two hour shift!

 

Can I ask about about operation of the signalling at the summit?   I could not work out on the day or by watching the video whether operation of the signals on the layout was automatic or by the summit operator. 

 

Following on from that query, on the prototype, do we know how movement of the released banker from the down side across the up main to the up sidings was controlled?  I did note some conflict of priority on the model between the pilot movement and a through train on the up main, and wonder if this also occurred on the prototype. 

 

I can imagine that a less busy location might permit such movement under the direct (flagged) control of the signalman, but not here.  Did the pilot require possession of a full block section of the up main "down the hill" or did the up main contain a short block to permit this movement? 

 

Thanks again for letting us re-live the days of "watching the trains go by" on a busy main line.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Can I ask about about operation of the signalling at the summit?   I could not work out on the day or by watching the video whether operation of the signals on the layout was automatic or by the summit operator. 

 

Does this answer your question?(!) The operator at Shap summit does indeed have a lever frame - unseen by the viewers - and operates the signals him (or her) self. They're all interlocked (electrically) and some of them also do clever things as part of Andrew's control system.

 

1 hour ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Did the pilot require possession of a full block section of the up main "down the hill" or did the up main contain a short block to permit this movement? 

 

The signalling arrangements at Shap summit included 'station limits' on both up and down lines, between respective Home and Starter signals, allowing the signalman to control shunt movements locally. This is replicated on the model.

 

If we take a close up look at the signalling diagram on the model, it should be relatively easy to follow. Having banked a train up the hill, the banker (pilot) comes to a halt at signal 3, the Down Starter. Crossover 4 is then reversed (locking both Up and Down Home signals) and Ground Signal 5 is pulled off (locking Crossover 4), allowing the loco to cross over to the Up line. If it's straight back down the hill, then Up starter 17 is pulled off and away she goes. If no path available, Crossover 9 is reversed (locking the Up Home signal), Ground Signal 8 pulled off and loco berths in the Loco Siding.

 

It's based on the signalling diagram as published in the John Swift series by the Signalling Record Society, Volume 6. The real Shap summit was a 36 lever frame (twice ours), the main difference being that it also controlled the Shap Quarry sidings, which aren't included on the model. The lever numbers are correct up to No.10

 

1 hour ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Thanks again for letting us re-live the days of "watching the trains go by" on a busy main line.

Glad you enjoyed your visit to the Westmorland fells 😀

Edited February 13 by LNER4479

[Fishplate]

8 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

The lever numbers are correct up to No.10

 

Intrigued by the comment on the bottom right of the diagram for unused levers being 'Spare (for now!)'. . . . ?

[LNER4479]

The crossovers to the down siding are currently inoperative. Together with associated signals, that would use up the remaining levers. In truth, only one train (the down pick-up goods) would use it, recessing for the following train to pass. A nice move but quite a lot of effort for one move per sequence!

 

We'll see ...

[Buhar]

Hi Graham,

 

Would the down siding never be used as a refuge by a freight that had unexpectedly struggled up the bank and so was being too closely pursued by a passenger?

 

Alan

[LNER4479]

In theory yes ... but I think it was more of a long headshunt for the quarry as much as a refuge.

 

Also, even if such a train has ailed up the bank, it has nevertheless made it to the summit(!) and it's all downhill from there. It would cause even more delay stopping and (steadily) propelling back into the siding. Looking at the signalling diagrams for the following locations, if it was in real trouble it would probably be better diving into the loop at Harrison Sidings or - more likely - one of the two designated good loops on the approach to Penrith.

 

On the layout, the trailing crossover concerned is more or less at the scenic break so the train would have to be driven into the fiddle yard, only to propel back out of it again. And as most of the goods trains are 3-links ... likely to disrupt the (generally!) free running of the layout?

 

As I say, it's a nice idea but I'm not convinced it's worth the effort 🤔

 

[John76]

On 11/02/2024 at 23:37, LNER4479 said:

This is the even more advanced/improved 'bridge of the Starship Enterprise' down Fiddle Yard control panel 😱 But it's all quite logical when you know how and - more importantly - performed more or less faultlessly all weekend. It's the reason we can pump out trains at regular intervals to keep things moving 'out front' and it's gradual evolution over the last five years is all down to Andrew's hard work and enthusiasm 🤗

Graham,

 

Any chance we can hear more about the bridge of the Starship Enterprise please? Clearly a lot of thought has gone into putting on a very enjoyable show.

 

John 

 

 

[LNER4479]

8 hours ago, John76 said:

Any chance we can hear more about the bridge of the Starship Enterprise please? Clearly a lot of thought has gone into putting on a very enjoyable show.

Thanks, John

 

We've actually got an article in preparation, so I don't want to steal its thunder (although I don't claim to understand how it works, in any case!)

 

In essence, however, it achieves two things. Firstly, it controls the advancing of the next Down (uphill!) train into one of two departure positions (one for unbanned; one for banked)

 

Secondly (and this is the really snazzy bit), it passes the info on round the layout as to which FY road the train came out of such that, when Shap summit clears his starter signal, the road is automatically set for that road and the train safely returns from whence it came. 99.5% of the time (!) It pays for the Shap signalman just to do a confirming check.

[LNER4479]

Meanwhile, either side of Donny, tracklaying work has been undertaken ...

 

Whilst waiting for next consignment of points to arrive, decided to tackle some plain line work. Courtesy of Nicktoix of this parish, I took delivery of some used Code 75 and this is seen here being sorted into suitable lengths (cascading ex-mainline track for siding use, just like the real railway😁)

 

With track cut to length, and sprayed, the ever therapeutic task of fixing it down for keeps proceeds.

 

And there we have it. 3 long dead-end sidings at Dentonholme, constituting the representation of the West Yard. On the layout, this'll be where northbound trains for the CR and GSWR routes are made up, as well as handling the trip traffic - north to Canal and south to Upperby.

 

And from the other end, showing the buffer stops ending the roads as so, leaving space for the Goods Depot roads to fan out bottom left.

 

The completed sidings now laid have capacity for approx 90 wagons but that's only part of the total capacity of the yard which should be nearer 200. Plenty of wagon fun to be had 🤓

 

Edited February 15 by LNER4479

[John76]

3 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

The completed sidings now laid have capacity for approx 90 wagons but that's only part of the total capacity of the yard which should be nearer 200. Plenty of wagon fun to be had 🤓

Graham, 

 

Great to see the track going down and the layout taking shape. I'm looking forward to when you install the flat crossing at Bog Jcn. Will I have to wait long?

 

Also what couplings will you be using? You said a few post ago that your freight stock on Shap is all 3 link. Are you sticking with those on here?

 

John

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, John76 said:

Great to see the track going down and the layout taking shape. I'm looking forward to when you install the flat crossing at Bog Jcn. Will I have to wait long?

Funnily enough, was planning to make a start this evening! So - no - you won't have to wait long! Wiring it all up might take a bit longer, mind ...

 

 

1 hour ago, John76 said:

Also what couplings will you be using? You said a few post ago that your freight stock on Shap is all 3 link. Are you sticking with those on here?

It'll be a mix of 3-link and tension lock. In case that sounds scary, then the idea is that wagons are coupled up in rafts, ie 3-links with a converter wagon at either end (converter - different couplers each end). The rafts can be coupled and uncoupled, to reform trains, without troubling the 3-links. Although if someone did fancy playing around with 3-links then Dentonholme will be a good place to do it.

I'll probably need as many converters as 3-links, if you think about it? A three wagon raft needs 2 converters but just one 3-link. Suitable RTR wagons are ideal as converters; just need to fit a hook one end.

 

Edited February 15 by LNER4479

[LNER4479]

5 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Funnily enough, was planning to make a start this evening!

 

Well, true to my word (on this occasion) ...

 

Here is the said flat crossing, cleared for work to begin. Plain track has been temporarily laid previously to get us up and running, with a template beneath. Everything on a min six foot radius curve, about the most you can curve the Peco pointwork to.

 

And, after a session of cutting and tweaking, the first two part modified. The temporarily laid tracks can stay for now as they're actually quite useful during the marking and cutting exercise.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Don't reckon much to the bright yellow underlay!

 

Mike.

[jwealleans]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Don't reckon much to the bright yellow underlay!

 

Doesn't half help with the 3 link couplings.

[LNER4479]

More work on the 'festive challenge' Fairburn.

 

Work on the cab doors area. The rear (bunker) unit detaches separately, making things a little tricky. Suitable 'L' channels cut and soldered and handrails affixed.

 

Can doors, steps and balance pipes added.

 

Bunker rear detail (I like adding the detail 🤓)

 

Cab roof ventilators.

 

And, at risk of lily gilding, an ancient supply of 5A fuse wire being used to add beading round top of bunker.

 

Beginning to look something like?

 

Side tanks unit next.

[LNER4479]

Meanwhile ...

 

Just a quick note to say that, following a photo session at last year's Hornby GETS show, the layout is scheduled to be in the next edition of said mag, out ... pretty soon now!

 

Bizarrely, Grantham is also appearing simultaneously in April's RM.

 

It's like waiting for a bus!

 

Enjoy.

 

[LMS29]

The Hornby magazine arrived this morning and your article definitely captures the spirit of the layout.  Well worth a read.

 

Tom

[LNER4479]

Continuing on at Upperby.

 

Was - naively - hoping to lay the goods lines onwards, now that the goods lines part of Upperby Juncs have been laid. But there's a problem!

This centres around the single slip at the heart of the formation, seen more or less at the centre of this picture. There's some point rodding required to facilitate crossover operation connected to this point ... and they run under the goods lines. So this slip has to be laid for keeps ... so as the rodding can be installed ... before the goods lines can be laid.

 

Trouble is, to accurately position the slip, the adjacent WCML double junction needs to be in position - the alignment of the main lines is, as always, paramount.

The pointwork pictured has thus been prepared (modified), ready to be temporarily fixed in position.

 

And now with the key single slip itself in position ... but not yet fixed down. Doesn't look too bad?

 

The above exercise allowed for the piece of cork underlay to be fitted, matched to the outline of the foam pieces of the WCML pointwork. Duly painted, the single slip can now be permanently fitted 

 

Two square holes cut, with the usual rat's nest of pre-wiring added.

 

Fitted! All that effort for one point.

 

Now, where were we?

 

Edited March 10 by LNER4479

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Continuing on at Upperby.

 

That's a long reach when the turntable decides to derail a loco (never the operator's fault...).

[Jesse Sim]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

 

 

 

We need a disclaimer before these type of pictures

[LNER4479]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

(never the operator's fault...).

Perish the thought ...

[Clive Mortimore]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's a long reach when the turntable decides to derail a loco (never the operator's fault...).

With the added complication of a doughnut shaped shed building around it, so you can't see to get at things. 

[Fishplate]

4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

With the added complication of a doughnut shaped shed building around it, so you can't see to get at things.

 

Sounds like Thunderbird 3 launch site.

[LNER4479]

So ....

 

Tracklaying proceeds at Upperby.

 

Following the installation of the adjacent slip point, the goods lines are being laid. Note the point rodding runs under the tracks, for those points where a point motor cannot be directly installed.

 

And following round to the removable section.

 

Meanwhile, the five roads for Upperby goods yard are also being laid. This then accurately sets the space left for ...

 

... Upperby shed (12A). Here are the first three points, constituting the depot entrance (off the Y-point beyond the three-way point)

 

It's all going on.

 

Edited April 5 by LNER4479