Passenger left behind...

[The Stationmaster]

OK, ok! They were almost all 317's in my days there, although 365's were starting to appear. I guess the cab is a similar design to the 165? They also had mirrors and CCTV platform screens, which I guess also helps. When do the on-board CCTV screens go off when a train is leaving the platform in more modern DOO operations?

 

All of which is irrelevant at a station which has neither tv monitors nor mirrors - the only option then for a Driver who wishes to look back is to put his head out of the cab window (or not bother to look back at all).

[jim.snowdon]

Getting back to the subject, Southern's guide for mobility impaired passengers - https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/travel-help/assisted-travel/mobility-scooters-and-wheelchairs - is worth a read.

 

It is quite clear that -

- wheelchair and mobility buggies/scooters may be carried - if they fit, and subject to weight and dimensional limits

- anyone requiring to take one on a train should contact the train opertaor 24 hours in advance so that appropriate arrangements can be made to have a ramp available and personnel to assist.

 

In short, you cannot expect to simply turn up and go.

 

None of this is in contravention of the Equality Act.

 

Jim

[Classsix T]

I know this might sound like a dumb question but did he actually want to get on the train.

 

He might have been a crank.

An apparently overlooked concept Tiger, and the second thing that occurred to me.

 

C6T.

[Ken.W]

I doubt very much someone would just turn up at a railway station expecting to be able to catch a train to their chosen destination without first finding out if one went to there and the times of them.  That being the case information re access would be not far from that information.

Well, just last night, I encountered a passenger wanting to know where to purchase a ticket to Hartlepool...

at around 11pm, nearly two hours after the last train!

[jjb1970]

Depends on where you are and where you are going. There are plenty of routes in the former NSE area especially where you can just turn up and not have to wait that long for a train without looking at a time table. I know the train times for Euston - MK but if I didn't I could turn up at the station at almost any time of day outside the quiet hours and not have to wait that long.

[jim.snowdon]

Well, just last night, I encountered a passenger wanting to know where to purchase a ticket to Hartlepool...

at around 11pm, nearly two hours after the last train!

As a body, passengers are frequently not that intelligent, to the point where herding lemmings may be a more rewarding pursuit.

 

Jim

[Ken.W]

Depends on where you are and where you are going. There are plenty of routes in the former NSE area especially where you can just turn up and not have to wait that long for a train without looking at a time table. I know the train times for Euston - MK but if I didn't I could turn up at the station at almost any time of day outside the quiet hours and not have to wait that long.

Yes, but the point I was replying's hardly relevant if you already know that information. Some passengers will just turn up without knowing if they can actually get to where they want to be, including it seems, occurring to them to check the time of the last train

[Ken.W]

As a body, passengers are frequently not that intelligent, to the point where herding lemmings may be a more rewarding pursuit.

 

Jim

The classic one's being asked which way the train goes out...

 

at Kings Cross! (and yes, has happened more than once)

[chriswright03]

Well, just last night, I encountered a passenger wanting to know where to purchase a ticket to Hartlepool...

at around 11pm, nearly two hours after the last train!

Yes there are some.  Then again this maybe isn't the place to discuss just the failings of some of the public.

[caradoc]

If anybody is going to make a complaint about this, wouldn't the person who (perhaps) wanted to get on the train and couldn't be the logical person to do so?

 

Indeed, but unless that person is an RMWebber we're not likely to know whether they have, and what the outcome was ? Unless of course the story makes it to the media (which is still possible). 

[Colin_McLeod]

This thread is now reminding me of my layout. A roundy roundy.

[iands]

No station DOO infrastructure at most Southern stations outside the metro area.  377s have train mounted cameras and 313s don't.

Thanks DY444. Stupid me. I focused on the 313s and totally forgot about 377s having on-board DOO CCTV. (Note to self: Read the post properly before offering a comment!)

 

Regards, Ian.

[Coryton]

Getting back to the subject, Southern's guide for mobility impaired passengers - https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/travel-help/assisted-travel/mobility-scooters-and-wheelchairs - is worth a read.

 

It is quite clear that -

- wheelchair and mobility buggies/scooters may be carried - if they fit, and subject to weight and dimensional limits

- anyone requiring to take one on a train should contact the train opertaor 24 hours in advance so that appropriate arrangements can be made to have a ramp available and personnel to assist.

 

In short, you cannot expect to simply turn up and go.

 

The web site may be quite clear...but signage (post-dating the move to DCO I believe) on at least some Southern stations seems to directly contradict this.

 

And now I come to think of, I'm pretty sure they have route maps showing some stations as ones at which pre-booking assistance would be advisable...and others at which it isn't necessary.

 

 

None of this is in contravention of the Equality Act.

 

 

I don't know what the Equality Acts says, but it doesn't sound right to me for a train with a guard, conductor, OBS etc. to leave behind a passenger who could have been accommodated with assistance.

 

(And I'm not saying that's what happened here).

 

 

[BoD]

I know this might sound like a dumb question but did he actually want to get on the train.

 

He might have been a crank.

  

An apparently overlooked concept Tiger, and the second thing that occurred to me.

C6T.

Could someone kindly explain the meaning of 'crank' in this context?

[beast66606]

  

Could someone kindly explain the meaning of 'crank' in this context?

 

Train Spotter

[John M Upton]

I shall not comment on the original incident, not enough information and 'Walls have ears' as they say. 

 

Ford Station - Six coaches SDO operation but in the down direction the platform accommodates eight coaches but the computer will not permit the rear two to open despite them being on the platform, a fair few passengers have regrettably come unstuck as a result.  It should not happen but regrettably does from time to time.

 

From January 2nd 2018 under the newly agreed ASLEF agreement, all formerly Conductor/Guard operated Class 377 formed trains (plus a few others that were DOO before this all started) will be cancelled if no OBS is on board with the exception of certain exceptional circumstances.  In the latter case which should be rare then an OBS (or a spare Conductor/Guard) will have to be provided at the earliest opportunity in the journey.

 

Me, I am happy on my little old 313's (not due out of service until about 2021 at the earliest and then probably to be replaced by further second hand non DOO compatible stock) trundling along the coast (although I do fill in on OBS jobs from time to time) so do say hello if you see me, I will be the one wearing way more than the regulation limit number of badges on my uniform!!

[Mike Storey]

All of which is irrelevant at a station which has neither tv monitors nor mirrors - the only option then for a Driver who wishes to look back is to put his head out of the cab window (or not bother to look back at all).

 

Hence my question for "modern" DOO/DCO stock such as the 377's which will be operating the line. Do the camera screens in the cab go off immediately or after several seconds upon departure?

[Talltim]

Do a bit of research and then you see the reason for my reply!

 

The driver is in no way, shape or form to leave the cab and deal with a wheelchair.

You are missing the point. The driver might not help with the loading, but they do make the choice as to whether to drive away leaving a passenger on the platform.

[Talltim]

Probably because they were revenue protection, it is outside their remit to carry out duties they have not been trained in, and before anyone starts down the 'its only putting a ramp down' routine the simple fact of the matter is they could have their employment ended by doing so especially if something went wrong!

And again, while doing the ramp may not be their job, alerting the right people is within their remit as human beings.

[royaloak]

In short, you cannot expect to simply turn up and go.

 

None of this is in contravention of the Equality Act.

 

Jim

But they should be able to just turn up and go, thats the whole point of all the modifications to the stations and trains.

Why should they have to book 24 hours in advance?

What if they wake up in the morning and seeing it is a beautiful sunny day decide to go for a trip out, what the legislation says is tough you cant go because you havent booked 24 hours in advance, and that is just plain wrong.

 

It might not be illegal but it is morally wrong.

 

Of course down here that isnt a problem because all the trains I drive have a Guard on board who can deal with the wheelchair user with 24 seconds notice never mind 24 hours.

[Talltim]

There is a certain irony that 'the railway' is spending a fortune modifying stock with huge toilets and wheelchair places while the DfT is making it harder to get on board them by trying to reduce staff.

[Fat Controller]

As has been pointed out previously, there is a great difference in weight between a wheelchair and a mobility scooter. Tyne and Wear Metro has effectively banned them from their network following several incidents where the vehicle has fallen on the tracks, in one case going straight through a closed and locked door opposite the loading door. 

[caradoc]

You are missing the point. The driver might not help with the loading, but they do make the choice as to whether to drive away leaving a passenger on the platform.

 

On a train with a Guard the Driver would not be aware that a passenger had been left behind, not being required to monitor door operation.

[Dunsignalling]

But they should be able to just turn up and go, thats the whole point of all the modifications to the stations and trains.

Why should they have to book 24 hours in advance?

What if they wake up in the morning and seeing it is a beautiful sunny day decide to go for a trip out, what the legislation says is tough you cant go because you havent booked 24 hours in advance, and that is just plain wrong.

 

It might not be illegal but it is morally wrong.

 

Of course down here that isnt a problem because all the trains I drive have a Guard on board who can deal with the wheelchair user with 24 seconds notice never mind 24 hours.

The snag is that, whilst the station of boarding may be manned with assistance readily available, that may not be the case at the station where the passenger wishes to alight and arrangements will need to be made.

 

Not much point being able to turn up and go if you can't get off where you want.

 

I completely agree with your moral point, but it is incompatible with the reality which the DfT wants to impose.

 

Whilst they and the TOCs insist that abolished guards posts will be replaced by some sort of less qualified on-board assistants, they will be permitted to run trains without in "extenuating circumstances". We all know how elastic those can be when budgetary constraints begin to bite and vacancies are left unfilled.

 

John

Edited December 14, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[John M Upton]

Hence my question for "modern" DOO/DCO stock such as the 377's which will be operating the line. Do the camera screens in the cab go off immediately or after several seconds upon departure?

 

The monitors go off once the train speed exceeds 5 mph.  That is why sometimes you may witness a somewhat slow departure from some stations.