OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You still can.  

HMRS market it as Pressfix, they also do them as Methfix 

https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/faq

 

Not the same thing at all.

[E100]

5 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Much as I’d like to reply to this ,discussion on Sam’s Trains has been brought to a halt on by Mods on the thread dealing with the Hornby TV programme as being off topic.So please to avoid this happening here,can we remain on discussing the subject of Dapol’s new prairie .Thanks.

Sorry was a bit late to the thread but still wanted to put my 2p in.

 

On the topic of the Prairie I thought the finish was somewhat lackluster in mint condition (compared to others) but once weathered I think this will hide this well and the underlying good quality of print should come to fore. The lining looked to be particularly neatly applied. I'd love to see some member's examples.

 

Whilst out of my area I do enjoy the GWR and models like this will encourage me to return one day.

[31A]

On 03/12/2021 at 19:10, melmerby said:

You used to be able to get model railway lettering & lining that was the same principle as Letraset, I might still have some.

You pressed it on and varnished over. Never seemed to quite good enough with little flecks missing after application.

 

 

Were they called Kingsprint, from King's Cross Models?  I had some LNER ones.

 

[St Enodoc]

55 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Were they called Kingsprint, from King's Cross Models?  I had some LNER ones.

 

Kingsprint was of that dry print type, yes. Genuine Letraset sheets were large and expensive - I never had any. However, how many modellers in the 60s and 70s were without one or more of the similar but smaller Blick sheets?

 

Talking of Letraset, many of us used Letracote 103 as a good, fast-drying matt varnish. Then they changed the formulation and it wouldn't dry properly, then they discontinued it altogether. Shame.

[B10M]

15 hours ago, Jenks465 said:

 

This was my one that arrived on Tuesday.....

 

 

Went back on Wednesday morning!

Turns out it's the trailing bogie at fault, lifting the middle and rear drivers off the track just enough to loose pickup.  The two springs need removing at the the least to enable the model to sit properly.

Edited December 5, 2021 by B10M
Missed a letter out, I've got OCD!

[Jenks465]

33 minutes ago, B10M said:

Turns out it's the trailing bogie at fault, lifting the middle and rear drivers off the track just enough to loose pickup.  The two springs need removing at the the least to enable the model to sit properly.

Thanks, I've sent mine back but useful for the future. 

[David Stannard]

15 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I would have thought a review by whoever it was pointing out a fault with the Dapol model he bought was very much on topic.

Hey Ho……here we go……

 

 You slagging off Dapol at any given chance!

Hey Ho......here we go......

[Harlequin]

3 hours ago, B10M said:

Turns out it's the trailing bogie at fault, lifting the middle and rear drivers off the track just enough to loose pickup.  The two springs need removing at the the least to enable the model to sit properly.

 

It's an interesting idea.

 

If the rear pony springs are lifting the rear of the loco off the track then you should see it move down when you press on the cab (assuming your track is flat). It would be great if someone with the stalling problem could confirm this. I don't see it.

 

For the rear pony springs to have any effect the vertical travel of the pony itself would also have to be exhausted. This is possible because it seems to be very close to the chassis, even rubbing against it, on level track.

 

The rear pony truck is hooked onto a peg on the main chassis and then held in place against the body. So I wonder if the problem models might have been badly assembled with the rear pony trapped and not able to move freely? It would be great if someone with a problem model could test this as well. Does the rear pony move freely left right and up down?

 

BTW: @B10M You put one extra letter and one extra word in your post!

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Harlequin

[Ian Hargrave]

6 minutes ago, David Stannard said:

 

 You slagging off Dapol at any given chance!

Hey Ho......here we go......

 
If you are serious that’s unfair. He was responding to my earlier post about keeping on topic. I certainly take no offence at what he posted..Let’s not introduce a sour note into this thread,please. It’s sometimes of benefit to read back to get the gist of what is posted.

[boxbrownie]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Kingsprint was of that dry print type, yes. Genuine Letraset sheets were large and expensive - I never had any. However, how many modellers in the 60s and 70s were without one or more of the similar but smaller Blick sheets?

 

Talking of Letraset, many of us used Letracote 103 as a good, fast-drying matt varnish. Then they changed the formulation and it wouldn't dry properly, then they discontinued it altogether. Shame.

I used a lot of Letraset when building model passenger airliners in my teens, it was handy that a lot of airlines used standard typefaces back then…..albeit a bit bigger 

[boxbrownie]

33 minutes ago, David Stannard said:

 

 You slagging off Dapol at any given chance!

Hey Ho......here we go......

Nope, it would have been the same had any manufacturer given us a bad or faulty model and somebody had pointed the issues out and been slagged off for it.

 

And to address your underlying accusation the Dapol model looks to be a really good detailed model with just an issue with pick ups maybe, perhaps if they had included the pony truck sets with pick ups this problem would be non existent.

[boxbrownie]

48 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

It's an interesting idea.

 

If the rear pony springs are lifting the rear of the loco off the track then you should see it move down when you press on the cab (assuming your track is flat). It would be great if someone with the stalling problem could confirm this. I don't see it.

 

For the rear pony springs to have any effect the vertical travel of the pony itself would also have to be exhausted. This is possible because it seems to be very close to the chassis, even rubbing against it, on level track.

 

The rear pony truck is hooked onto a peg on the main chassis and then held in place against the body. So I wonder if the problem models might have been badly assembled with the rear pony trapped and not able to move freely? It would be great if someone with a problem model could test this as well. Does the rear pony move freely left right and up down?

 

BTW: @B10M You put one extra letter and one extra word in your post!

 

I’ve a Hornby 0-4-4 which has the same issue, the rear pony lifts the drivers off the track enough to reduce traction enough for the model to struggle to pull more than a few coaches, I a, pretty sure it was a well known fault.

 

Better David?  I’m slagging off Hornby now as well apparently 

[David Stannard]

8 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Nope, it would have been the same had any manufacturer given us a bad or faulty model and somebody had pointed the issues out and been slagged off for it.

 

And to address your underlying accusation the Dapol model looks to be a really good detailed model with just an issue with pick ups maybe, perhaps if they had included the pony truck sets with pick ups this problem would be non existent.

 

 I will agree with you that in some respects just a simple tweak or addition would ensure a faultless model, sadly though it is one of these simple oversights that tends to lead to a negative review/experience of many a model, I've had to adjust the pickups on a few locos over the years as they were placing too much pressure on the wheels and inhibiting the movement.

[tomparryharry]

I haven't received my Dapol large prairie yet, but I will very soon. I suggest that observations are  kept factual & concise. After all, the only way that any manufacturers move on, is feedback from the clients & users. Any complaints (pros or cons ) HAVE to be backed up with facts, otherwise...

 

A, The manufacturer will simply disregard clients observations.

B, Being a manufacturing company, the company (any company ) will simply  look at other avenues to keep in business. 

 

My old foundry boss used to say; "Don't give me problems, give me solutions as well". That mantra still holds true today as it's ever been. Explain the problem, and how you might rectify it. You need to realise that the demographic of RMWeb is largely  comprised of A&B's, with a collective intellect equal to any other group of people on the planet. 

 

Weighing in with negative comments without solutions is known as whinging; it does little to advance the process.  I'll probably get my ar$e kicked now, but there we go.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

[Hal Nail]

14 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

A, The manufacturer will simply disregard clients observations

I sent a pm to one of the representatives on here offering to make free private observations on some cads and got a reply to the effect that they prefer to do their own checks, given the amount of rubbish contributed by forums. My words but that was the sentiment.

 

Unfortunately there is a tendency for people to post in a way that detracts from what might be valid observations. 

[Ian Hargrave]

53 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

I’ve a Hornby 0-4-4 which has the same issue, the rear pony lifts the drivers off the track enough to reduce traction enough for the model to struggle to pull more than a few coaches, I a, pretty sure it was a well known fault.

 

Better David?  I’m slagging off Hornby now as well apparently 

 And I have a Rails Dapol Terrier

that also stalls on pointwork and that has neither trailing bogie nor pony truck.and a Hornby example that doesn’t. I imagine this issue is more widespread over the whole range of models than we think 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Removing superfluous test

[Harlequin]

Here's the rear pony disassembled:

 

 

You can see the springs. I am going to leave them in for the moment but the reason for taking it apart was to fit some nylon washers to reduce the sideplay of the axle in the pony truck. Since the pony truck rotates I don't see the need for the axle to also have a lot of side to side freedom and I think it's causing the rear coupling to be off-centre.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Harlequin

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

 

 

Weighing in with negative comments without solutions is known as whinging; it does little to advance the process.  I'll probably get my ar$e kicked now, but there we go.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

Whilst I agree with much of what you say, negative comments without solutions are still of use to a prospective purchaser, to try and gauge what the chances of getting a "good 'un" are.

We're not here to provide free consultancy to the manufacturers.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

I sent a pm to one of the representatives on here offering to make free private observations on some cads and got a reply to the effect that they prefer to do their own checks, given the amount of rubbish contributed by forums. My words but that was the sentiment.

 

Unfortunately there is a tendency for people to post in a way that detracts from what might be valid observations. 

And Dapol from previous experience on this forum are particularly sensitive to what they regard as harmful.

[tomparryharry]

1 minute ago, spamcan61 said:

Whilst I agree with much of what you say, negative comments without solutions are still of use to a prospective purchaser, to try and gauge what the chances of getting a "good 'un" are.

We're not here to provide free consultancy to the manufacturers.

 

I see what you mean, but there has to be a degree of give & take. Things don't progress otherwise. There is a short distance between customer focus and indifference.  

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Nope, it would have been the same had any manufacturer given us a bad or faulty model and somebody had pointed the issues out and been slagged off for it.

 

And to address your underlying accusation the Dapol model looks to be a really good detailed model with just an issue with pick ups maybe, perhaps if they had included the pony truck sets with pick ups this problem would be non existent.

 That’s the current theory as posted above. To put a spanner into the works.my experience with the Rails Dapol Terrier which obviously has no trailing axlesq is identical.It stalls on pointwork. Let’s fervently hope that an easy fix can be applied 

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

This is as far as I could get in separating the body from the running plate:

 

The front end seems to be glued and I'm not ready to start breaking glued joints!

 

However, the parts are separated enough to see that there are no obvious obstructions that should prevent them coming together accurately. I ran a cocktail stick along both edges but couldn't feel anything.

 

Put it back together and the same gap is still present mainly on the right hand side and the clip at the front of the right hand tank will not engage with the running plate.

 

So I'm no further forward, unfortunately.

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Harlequin

[Butler Henderson]

Could it be something at the front of the tank - the handrail for example seems to slot into it, is that correctly aligned and level.

[micklner]

Send it back !!.

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I’ve a Hornby 0-4-4 which has the same issue, the rear pony lifts the drivers off the track enough to reduce traction enough for the model to struggle to pull more than a few coaches, I a, pretty sure it was a well known fault.

 

Better David?  I’m slagging off Hornby now as well apparently 

The M7 has a very uneven weight distribution due to the wheel arrangement, take the rear truck away and the back end will hit the deck.

Their later 0-4-4T H class is much, much better with an improved, but still not ideal weight ditribution.