Star Wars Episode 8 (Spoilers)

[Ozexpatriate]

How would Yoda view it?

See it you should, before judgement you pass.

[Jeff Smith]

As an aside, you might be glad to know that a certain film distibutor is about to start work on thisYes, it's the old "reboot" syndrome but the contract is for "at least" two films and will add some of the missing footage from the novel which was just not possible in the original filmAnticipated release mid-2020, so that it qualifies for Awards 2021 seasonCAA are funding the distributor (which means it will be the majority of their actors)

I hope not, as I noted above the first re-make was pretty good, especially Children of Dune. There are so many other excellent books that could be adapted but here's the rub, movies often do not realize people's imagined images from reading books; also the story is no surprise. With the exception of the Dune remake I cannot think of any re-make that has worked, Planet of the Apes (1st remake, have not seen the 2nd), Total Recall, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[Jeff Smith]

Having now seen the movie, in 2D by choice, and discussed it with my Son we have agreed that the whole Finn/Rose story arc was distracting and highly implausible. Of course many others will not agree but that's the fun of a healthy discussion.

 

The Internet Movie Database (IMDB.com) has pages of trivia and goofs and is well worth a browse. Comments like 'How do gravity bombs work in micro-gravity?' and 'Why do destroyed spacecraft fall downward?'are worth some thought.

 

Whilst space opera is great fun the loss of life and hardware destruction is extreme and over the top for me. My preference is futuristic speculative fiction such as Asimov's Foundation Trilogy (great BBC radio play available on line) or perhaps Clark's Rendezvous with Rama, both of which have had movie rumours.

[jjb1970]

I thought the TV mini-series of Dune was very well done and much closer to the book than the movie. Although I liked the movie because some of the visuals and sets were stunning. The problem with any attempt to film Dune is trying to capture the complexity of the story with all its sub-plots and plans within plans.

 

Asimov's Foundation series is still one of the classics of SF, even if the parallels with the later Roman empire are non too subtle.

[Karhedron]

Having now seen the movie, in 2D by choice, and discussed it with my Son we have agreed that the whole Finn/Rose story arc was distracting and highly implausible. Of course many others will not agree but that's the fun of a healthy discussion.

I quite like Rose but I agree that the whole Canto Bite substory could have been cut which would have tightened up the running time by 20 minutes or so and not affected the story in the slightest.

 

How spoilery are we going here? When can we start discussing specific details?

[mjkerr]

I quite like Rose but I agree that the whole Canto Bite substory could have been cut which would have tightened up the running time by 20 minutes or so and not affected the story in the slightest.

The first cut was just over three hours long, and it was agreed early on for the film to be between 2hr25 and 2hr35

If Canto Bight had been removed (and some other method of evading the Force Order) then there would have been more footage of other scenes, but that would have meant less screen time for the other actors

 

How spoilery are we going here? When can we start discussing specific details?

The topic title has changed, and the film has now been out (in the UK) for 7 days

Cinemas are already trimming back the number of screenings, as they have now met the minimum requirement by Disney (WDSMP)

 

I have now seen the film in all formats (as I get to see it free) -

Press Screening Screening 2D IMAX

Premiere 2D IMAX visual presentation

2D SuperScreen / Dolby Atmos

2D Standard

3D Standard

3D DBOX

3D 4DX

3D IMAX

 

There are NO IMAX footage scenes (being shown in the UK), unlike The Force Awakens

The only advantage (in the 3D IMAX) is the image clarity

 

The 2D SuperScreen is probably the best to first see the film

 

The 3D 4DX is worth the extra, once you have seen the film in 2D or 3D format

Edited December 20, 2017 by mjkerr

[Nelson Jackson]

I have now seen the film in all formats (as I get to see it free)

You haven't got to see it in glorious omniplex Maxx (IMAX rip off).

[mjkerr]

You haven't got to see it in glorious omniplex Maxx (IMAX rip off).

That's not a listed format film type

That suggests it is a hybrid of the four film types

Even the IMAX version in the UK is a hybrid, only one cinema is showing this (London Science Museum)

 

Edit :

It would appear Omniplex Maxx is using a version of 2D SuperScreen / Dolby Atmos, not to be confused with IMAX

That is the version supplied by WDSMP to the Irish distributor

Edited December 21, 2017 by mjkerr

[Boco_D1]

I love Star Wars, I always have but this film is not only a terrible Star Wars film it's a terrible film in genral, it's too long and there are far too many plot holes and sub plots that go no where. The forced humour destroys the tension of what is meant to be a dark film and the jedi now seem to share powers with the wizard community of Harry Potter.

 

How can Rey know so much of the force when she only learnt she had the power halfway thorough the last film, this film follows immediately on from TFA so she has even had her power for a week, yet appears to be more powerful than Yoda?

 

The treatment of Luke Skywalker is an insult (not even mentioning that milk scene), this is not the character we last saw in Jedi, he goes to murder his nephew in his sleep without confronting him when he only suspects he's gone dark, the same person who turnd Vader back to the light? And why would he hide, Luke has always fought for what he thought is right, he ignored Yoda and Obi-Wan just to save his friends from Vader but won't stand up to the first order to defend the galaxy? And at the end he dies of exhaustion at the age of 54! Someone that strong in the force.

 

The slow chase through space, why didn't the first order send a couple of Star destroyers into hyperspace to get ahead so they could flank the rebels? Why do the rebels have just three capital ships? why is there no fighter escorts? Why didn't the first order just send wave after wave of tie fighters to destroy the ships after the rebels just destroyed a dreadnaguht with essentially an xwing and the galaxy's slowest moving bomber.

 

The casino planet sub plot was just an utter waste of time it achieved nothing apart from getting some more rebels killed. And the cast of Annie as slave children just didn't fit.

 

As for Snoke? They kill him off without giving us any back story, I've seen a lot of people try to defend this move with the argument we didn't know anything about the Emperor in the original trilogy but that only had a film history of 3 films, this film has a history of 8 other films and not one of them tells you how someone so powerful in the force went undetected through the entire rise and fall of the empire or how he managed to build a new empire. But his death also contradicts Jedi as Luke could have killed the Emperor in exactly the same way.

 

There is so much more wrong with film I could be here all night. I know everyone has there own opinion and some would have liked this film (fair enough) but all I saw was one of my favourite things die a slow and painful death.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Boco_D1

[Ozexpatriate]

I love Star Wars, I always have but this film is not only a terrible Star Wars film it's a terrible film in genral, it's too long and there are far too many plot holes and sub plots that go no where.

There were three ways I thought about responding to your post:

1. So, how do you really feel?
2. "Good! Use your aggressive feelings boy, let the hate flow through you"
3. Hmmm yes, Only once, the agree button can I press.

Let's go with 3.

 

While I pretty much agree with everything you said, I still enjoyed watching it though.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[PaulRhB]

There were three ways I thought about responding to your post:

1. So, how do you really feel?
2. "Good! Use your aggressive feelings boy, let the hate flow through you"
3. Hmmm yes, Only once, the agree button can I press.

Let's go with 3.

 

While I pretty much agree with everything you said, I still enjoyed watching it though.

  Yes, I've been a Star Wars fan since seeing the original as a kid and I think most who are disappointed have got deep into the SW universe outside the films, I just enjoy the films. Rogue One is still the best of the three for me but FA and LJ are great ripping yarns through the universe even if the 'reality' and plot resembles a colander at times

Just put on Episode 1 before you go to the cinema and suddenly life will seem much better once you've watched Last Jedi.

[Gareth Collier]

As we are now entering the world of spoilers my biggest gripe is Leia. Having shown no real signs of force use she gets sucked out in to space then seemingly dead she comes back to life and 'Supermans' back in to the ship. If she can do that why get sucked out in the first place and then why wait? Following the sad loss of Carrie it would have been the ideal way for her to bow out. There were numerous reshoots so they could have let her die there and then. It was very poignant as she stared in to the screen before the explosion. She didn't really have that an important role in the remainder of the film.

And as for the whole casino sub plot it had no bearing on the film as they failed other than the FO spotting the transports after DJ's betrayal. Begs the question though why the FO couldn't spot all the transports leaving the cruiser as you could see them through the window of the FO ship.

Luke milking that walrus thing - uurgh!

There is more but I won't bore you

[jjb1970]

I did enjoy the film, however I agree with most of the criticism voiced in the last few posts and I am getting close to the point where enjoyment gives way to finding it all collapses in a heap because I end up spending the time pondering plot holes and such like. The Dreadnought bit was very unsatisfying despite some superb visuals as quite apart from the idea of flying bombers over a spaceship and then "bombs away ginger!" being bonkers the idea of a mega super weapon that be left defenceless by a single fighter making a single pass and taking out all of its weapon emplacements is hard to take seriously. And I was also sitting muttering in my head why they didn't just dispatch a big TIE fighter strike to take out a handful of rebel starships, or jumps a few star destroyers ahead of the rebels. Or indeed, why didn't the First Order fleet have fast recon ships like frigates? And did a 60 mile wide ultra star destroyer not have one of those super weapons the Imperial and First Order are so obsessed with?

Another question is given how the rebels took out Snoke's mega ship why has nobody in the Star Wars universe ever developed lightspeed drone ships as the equivalent of anti-shipping missiles? 

I sort of enjoyed all the references to other Star Wars films, it was much more enjoyable than the idea of just repackaging an entire story from one of the older films which is what they did with TFA. The Luke sub-story was very mixed, most of it was hugely disappointing but at the end I did think his appearance on the battlefield and death was very well done. I wonder if that is Luke out of the story or if he'll return as a guide for Roy as other dead Jedi have done in Star Wars films?

I thought TFA played it safe but re-established the Star Wars universe after the awful prequel. This film relied on stunning visuals to carry a weak story. I hope the next one is better. I think there may be more potential to make more standalone films to fill in gaps in the first trilogy like Rogue One. They seemed to go to the effort to develop a strong plot, multi-dimensional characters and emotional depth in Rogue One, things lacking in this latest film.

[Ozexpatriate]

The Dreadnought bit was very unsatisfying despite some superb visuals as quite apart from the idea of flying bombers over a spaceship and then "bombs away ginger!" being bonkers

One day someone will post a Youtube video of this scene with the finale of the Dambusters March playing. It will be funny.

 

And I was also sitting muttering in my head why they didn't just dispatch a big TIE fighter strike to take out a handful of rebel starships, or jumps a few star destroyers ahead of the rebels.

As was I. There was an armada of Star Destroyers just sitting there for both space battles, alongside the Dreadnought and with Snoke's ship. Why did they do nothing the whole time, (except of course blow up at the end.)  Why did it take the big cannons to shoot at the little shuttles? 

 

The whole stern chase was pretty exasperating. Such things are a bit more plausible with HMS Surprise or Indefatigable. (In the opening of Episode IV the Imperial Star Destroyer is more than fast enough to catch up with the Alderaanian Ambassador's consular corvette.)

 

Another question is given how the rebels took out Snoke's mega ship why has nobody in the Star Wars universe ever developed lightspeed drone ships as the equivalent of anti-shipping missiles?

Nice observation. It's pretty obvious given a moment's thought. 

 

I wonder if that is Luke out of the story or if he'll return as a guide for Roy as other dead Jedi have done in Star Wars films?

It is perfectly set up. (Yoda's dialogue suggests it may happen.) I hope Mark Hamill is under contract for episode IX. It would be very consistent with the middle trilogy that way.

 

This film relied on stunning visuals to carry a weak story. I hope the next one is better.

Indeed.

 

In other news the Han Solo backstory film apparently has a title. The lobby card I saw simply had the prosaic title: "Solo: A Star Wars Story". Ron Howard is directing.

 

It better have a poker scene with Han and Lando. (Donald Glover is cast as Lando.)

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[PaulRhB]

Reference the bombs, if they are projected out of the racks they will continue on appearing to drop as if by gravity. I didn't see anything that said they just dropped off as indeed they would stay inside

Often exploiting a more powerful enemies weakness is the way you stall or defeat them, think radar allowing the RAF to maximise resources. Also they rely on spies throughout the series so they may well know the weak points of ships from that and in reality the Allies went to great lengths to conceal their Enigma transcripts.

 

Finally it's a film written and made by dreamers who aren't on the whole scientific or engineering geniuses or necessarily bothered by reality if it's not spectacular. Think real gunshots and explosions compared to 99% of films

[mjkerr]

I wonder if that is Luke out of the story or if he'll return as a guide for Roy as other dead Jedi have done in Star Wars films?

All the "main" actors, excluding Harrison Ford, are signed for three films (Episodes 7, 8, and 9) and one extension

Harrison only agreed to the extension from Episode 6

However, one (and I think you can guess who) has had a revision (early in 2017) that they will not be involved in any publicity from 31 December 2019 onwards

Edited December 23, 2017 by mjkerr

[mjkerr]

In other news the Han Solo backstory film apparently has a title

SOLO has had it's title for months (officially 17 October 2017)

Stannum 50 Labs presented the working crew with gifts on 08 July 2017, cases with "SOLO"

The outline story is closer to a western

Similar to Rogue One which leads into Episode 8, SOLO leads into Episode 9 (giving a better background to the systems in the Outer Rim)

[Ozexpatriate]

Reference the bombs, if they are projected out of the racks they will continue on appearing to drop as if by gravity. I didn't see anything that said they just dropped off as indeed they would stay inside

In truth the bombs falling bothered me less than the bombers being shot down (instead of continuing on their path). But I will observe that the bombs were sitting in racks with no evident projection force. Not to mention the gravity inside the bomb bay used as a plot device

 

For the sake of avoiding argument I'll stipulate that somewhere inside the Resistance Bomber is an artificial gravity field projector that extends well beyond the bomb bay. Still doesn't explain why all those Star Destroyers just sat there and did nothing to the Resistance fleet.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Ozexpatriate

[chris p bacon]

I think I'll wait for the Family Guy version.

[Ozexpatriate]

I think I'll wait for the Family Guy version.

You may be waiting for some time.

 

[PaulRhB]

All the ships have gravity fields and as I said as long as something projects them out then they will keep going

As to the falling down it's more a visual device that most expect to see and symbolises the loss I guess where it just carrying on wouldn't look so dramatic. I guess they could have had them spinning out of control but it wouldn't have looked so dramatic for the 'last bomber' getting through which introduced Rose's motivation.

As to the casino side story, it's just an example of something going wrong that involved main characters to help bring Rose in. Think of Dieppe in WW2, it seemed pointless but they learnt a lot for later. In LJ it set up the Finn vs Phasma fight and the young kids Anakin esque story so where might that lead? They have also introduced DJ as a baddie and to be honest, Pre Empire Han would have done the same

Empire hardly tied up all the ends.

 

As to Leia, yes it would have been a way to end her story but after Carrie's passing would you, as the director, really want to cut all those scenes she filmed out? The piece where she blasts back onto the bridge to stop Po was a great moment and brought a smile to my face. Let's leave it as a minor indulgence for their wish to celebrate Carrie Fisher and I think her reactions to the Po mutiny, her knowing what was going to happen with the kamikaze run and her reaction to Luke moving on were worth every second of screen time.

Edited December 23, 2017 by PaulRhB

[Karhedron]

Just my own thoughts, I enjoyed TLJ although it did sag in the middle. As for Luke turning into a grumpy old man, this is not the Luke we wanted to see but I feel they did a convincing job of explaining why he did give up. He didn't simply fail, he FAILED in every possible way. He failed Ben personally and he failed Han and Leia, the people he cared about most. He failed Yoda's dying request to pass on what he had learned. He had failed the New Republic to provide a new generation of Jedi to protect it.

 

Worst of all, he KNEW that fear was the path to the Dark Side yet it was his fear of Ben turning that led him to try and sense Ben's future. His fear turned the that possible future into a reality. Even after everything he had been through with the Emperor and his father, the Dark side manged to blind side him in the end and it destroyed absolutely everything he had dedicated his life to. This wasn't a mistake he could pick himself up from. There was no Darth Sidious to blame for undermining Ben. He failed on every possible level and saw his dreams burned to ashes as a result. No wonder he was bitter and waiting to die with that magnitude of pain and guilt.

 

I was glad to see him being the hero one last time at the end. Laying down his life in the greatest display of Force power we have ever seen. Projecting his consciousness across the galaxy and laying down his life to save the people he cared about. Luke may have failed as a teacher but he was still the hero in the end and when he died, he did so in peace and became one with the Force. Just like Rose, he did not destroy what he hated, he saved what he loved and was redeemed for it.

[Ian J.]

Unfortunately the SW films now seem to be suffering a problem that has been 'infecting' mainstream films for a while, which is that the producers/writers believe that plausibility is of no importance whatsoever and can be left in the shredder as long as there are enough spectacular scenes which keep the audience 'wowed'. These days, if you want intelligent and plausible stories in your movies, you have no choice but to look to independent films. To my mind this all kicked off with 'Armageddon' in 1998, one of Michael Bay's first films, and one which put action spectacle way above plausibility in importance. Since then it's been a downhill trend, made worse in more recent years with the over-the-top Marvel and DC superhero movies (Sam Raimi's Spiderman and Nolan's Batman being the exceptions).

[Karhedron]

As to Leia, yes it would have been a way to end her story but after Carrie's passing would you, as the director, really want to cut all those scenes she filmed out? The piece where she blasts back onto the bridge to stop Po was a great moment and brought a smile to my face. Let's leave it as a minor indulgence for their wish to celebrate Carrie Fisher and I think her reactions to the Po mutiny, her knowing what was going to happen with the kamikaze run and her reaction to Luke moving on were worth every second of screen time.

Exactly so, Rian Johnson did an interview somewhere and explained that they did consider recutting the movie to kill off Leia after she got sucked into space but decided to leave it as it stood. As you say, too many great scenes would have been lost and as it stands, leaving Carrie Fisher's final performance intact makes a better tribute to her memory, even if it does leave a problem as to how to write her out between 8 and 9.

[mjkerr]

As to the casino side story, it's just an example of something going wrong that involved main characters to help bring Rose in

The original story (2015) had eight new main characters, but the final screenplay (2016) had just three

even if it does leave a problem as to how to write her out between 8 and 9.

That issue had already been solved in the middle of this year

The story was written some time ago (2015) and work on the screenplay is nearing completion (draft submission a few weeks ago)