Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Signalling the changes...

[Skinnylinny]

A bit more work's been done on the horsebox. There was a slight error in how I've drawn the chassis (my inability to do arithmetic resulted in a chassis 1mm longer than the body), and the laser cutter alignment is a bit out just now - hopefully that can be sorted soon and normal service will be resumed.The misalignment is why my axleboxes are way out of position on the axleguards.

I'm attempting to provide a representation of brakes on this model. The prototype was Westinghouse-braked, with 8-shoe clasp brakes. I think I've figured out a way of mounting these, which should look a bit better than this:

 

The actual Westinghouse cylinder I can't laser cut. I'll probably use a 1/4W resistor, as it's roughly the right shape and even has a wire lead (I mean "actuating shaft") coming out of each end, perfect to represent the brake cylinder.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[Skinnylinny]

OK, so re-drew the chassis, and it's looking much better. Sadly, the cutter won't currently cut the fine bits I need for the ends, but this low shot gives an impression of what the finished vehicle will look like.

 

 

With the exception of the few parts I can't cut due to the cutter problems, and the 10 minutes I spent drawing parts at the model railway club on Thursday evening, the entire kit was drawn and assembled over a weekend!

Edited April 15, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[sem34090]

Once you get into the swing of doing CAD's, and using shared bits between them, you find yourself getting better and quicker results all the time.

 

I really like the horsebox!

[Skinnylinny]

It's true! Most of the chassis was recycled from the Stroudley coaches. It's much easier to cut a slice from the middle and re-join neatly in CAD than it is in plastic or metal!

 

I may end up drawing up another horsebox or two to give a bit of variety... I have plenty of drawings!

Edited April 15, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[Annie]

Yes I really do like that horsebox.  A body only kit for 7mm would be nice, but no pressure Linny.

[BlueLightning]

The horsebox is looking great!!!

 

Out of interest what other drawings do you have?? Are they from a book I am likely to have? As the only one I have on my laptop is the one you have done!

 

Gary

[Skinnylinny]

I've got a few more drawings of horseboxes from LB&SCR Carriages, Vol 2. Some Craven and Stroudley ones. There seems to be quite a variation in height so this particular one looms over the Stroudley coaches!

 

The next one will probably be the D53 horsebox.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[Nick Holliday]

I don't want to be a killjoy, but putting a drawing like this, from a recent publication, 2016, albeit with a vague credit, is sailing a bit close to the copyright wind, as I see it.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Unfortunately I have to agree with Nick. It is a little bit... grey, copyright wise.

Edited April 16, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Skinnylinny]

That's a very good point, especially if I'm looking to gain financially by selling the kits. Thank you; I'll remove the drawing.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[dseagull]

Skinnylinny; Your 4 wheelers look great, and I'm wondering if they could be the answer for me - what sort of timescale would they have operated?

[BlueLightning]

Stu,

 

The 4 wheelers Linny has done date from the later part of Stroudley's career, from what I can see with a quick glance in the book, some seem to have lasted until at least 1920, there were definitely still some about in 1911 as the book talks about seconds being downgraded to thirds when second class was abolished.

 

If you want to come round and see the ones I have at some point that can be arranged!

 

Gary

[dseagull]

Stu,

 

The 4 wheelers Linny has done date from the later part of Stroudley's career, from what I can see with a quick glance in the book, some seem to have lasted until at least 1920, there were definitely still some about in 1911 as the book talks about seconds being downgraded to thirds when second class was abolished.

 

If you want to come round and see the ones I have at some point that can be arranged!

 

Gary

 

Thanks Gary, that works for my current line of thinking! - Cheers, I may well take you up on that kind offer at some point too.

[Nick Holliday]

Stu,

 

The 4 wheelers Linny has done date from the later part of Stroudley's career, from what I can see with a quick glance in the book, some seem to have lasted until at least 1920, there were definitely still some about in 1911 as the book talks about seconds being downgraded to thirds when second class was abolished.

 

 

Gary

From what I can tell from the photos of completed coaches these actually date from the earliest part of Stroudley's reign. Someone has noted that they are "mainline" stock, whereas there is no difference in bodywork between those and "suburban" ones; the difference lies in the buffers and couplings, as the latter were close coupled in block sets, of up to 19 coaches! Over the years, as demand fluctuated, they were swapped around as necessary. The only distinctive suburban coaches were the thirds and brake thirds in the original block sets, which had the compartment windows combined in a single long light between doors. This arrangement proved unsatisfactory for several reasons, and later suburban sets had normal side lights, as per the mainline types, and I suspect the earlier ones were reconstructed as well, as the long lights don't appear in later photos, but they seem to be prominent in the earlier publicity photographs!

It would be nice if the drawings could be adapted to simplify the conversion for those modelling the earlier years.

The first coaches appeared around 1873, and, according to Maycock and Reed, Isle of Wight Passenger Roiling Stock, "a surprising number lasted until 1923, running in 12 coach sets......they were amongst the first carriages to be condemned by the new regime."

From these survivors eight of the early Stroudley coaches were selected to be sent to the Isle of Wight, where they survived until October 1931.

I find it amazing that this late survival has, probably, resulted in the Stroudley four wheelers being what I believe the most replicated British railway coaches, apart from BR standards, in the 4mm world at least. Keysers came out with their set of kits back in the sixties or earlier, in white metal, and Roxey later reproduced them in etched brass. Smallbrook have since done them in resin, Bachmann has cloned them in plastic RTR, and now we have Linny's card version. Not bad for a pre-grouping design which disappeared over 85 years ago and had limited range!

It would be nice if Linny could be pursuaded to adapt the files to produce the later 1896 Crystal Palace stock. Basically the same design, but two feet longer, with the coach sides being slightly, one inch, taller with a slightly higher roof profile and different panelling on the third brakes, giving a bit of variation. Twelve of these made it to the island, so had a greater presence on those isolated rails.

[Skinnylinny]

I have been looking at the possibility of modifying the drawings for the long-light early versions of the thirds and brake thirds. I'm also looking at possibly drawing an extra layer for the duckets to give the later beading. 

The Crystal Palace stock, would that be the Billinton D56 First, D57 Second, D58 Third and D59/155 and D59/156 Brake Thirds? The book LB&SCR Carriages Vol. 1 (White, Turner & Foulkes) suggests these were sent to the Isle of Wight. I could definitely have a look at producing some of these, although right now I'm having trouble with the laser cutter which is making producing the kits a bit tricky. It's being worked on...

[Nick Holliday]

I have been looking at the possibility of modifying the drawings for the long-light early versions of the thirds and brake thirds. I'm also looking at possibly drawing an extra layer for the duckets to give the later beading. 

The Crystal Palace stock, would that be the Billinton D56 First, D57 Second, D58 Third and D59/155 and D59/156 Brake Thirds? The book LB&SCR Carriages Vol. 1 (White, Turner & Foulkes) suggests these were sent to the Isle of Wight. I could definitely have a look at producing some of these, although right now I'm having trouble with the laser cutter which is making producing the kits a bit tricky. It's being worked on...

Yes, those are the ones. Only third brakes, firsts and seconds went to the IOW, but a pre-grouping modeller would want the full third too.

Regarding extra layers for the mouldings on the duckets, the main problem is that the moulded duckets were actually 5" narrower than the smooth metal cladding. If you look at the IOW photos, it is clear that the outer windows of the brake end are much narrower than the centre ones, whereas originally, they were the same width. This would mean that you would have to offer alternative ends, or instructions showing how to reduce the overall width.

In 1903, Billinton built a fourteen coach set for the South London line, that went to the extreme width of the LBSCR loading gauge, at nine feet. That would be a nice, if rather esoteric, additional alternative, rather limited in operational scope, but they did outlast the earlier stock, being formed in 1928 into the famous Lancing Belle works train, giving some an extra year or so of life.

[BlueLightning]

Nick,

 

I bow to your superior knowledge. It's my own fault for taking a quick look though the book at midnight rather than looking properly before posting!!

 

Gary

[Nick Holliday]

Evening all,

 

     I must say, these coaches look fantastic! Such a pity they're out of my time period, although I suppose I could consider hacking them about to fit the LBSC bogie carriage (always carriages with the 'Brighton, never coaches) diagrams, though I'd need to find said diagrams first. On that note (sorry to hijack your thread, Skinny!) would anyone happen to know how these carriages came about; they look like two Stroudley coaches end-to-end on a bogie chassis, if that makes any sense at all? The brakes look distinctly Stroudley-esque.

    

- Alex.

Not sure which bogies carriages you are referring to. Up until around 1906 all bogie carriages were built from new, mostly 48 feet long. There was a period when a large number of 54 foot long carriages were created by placing Billinton 6-wheel bodies on new underframes. These were either 30' or 32' long, so the rest of the body was either made by splicing in compartments from other bodies, or building some new panelling. Their roof profile was much higher than Stroudley's.

Going a bit off topic, the Southern repeated the process when they took the earlier Billinton bogies carriages and placed them on longer underframes with additional compartments to form the new electrical stock. Later these underframes were stripped and new steel bodywork added.

[Skinnylinny]

Evening all,

 

     I must say, these coaches look fantastic! Such a pity they're out of my time period, although I suppose I could consider hacking them about to fit the LBSC bogie carriage (always carriages with the 'Brighton, never coaches) diagrams, though I'd need to find said diagrams first. On that note (sorry to hijack your thread, Skinny!) would anyone happen to know how these carriages came about; they look like two Stroudley coaches end-to-end on a bogie chassis, if that makes any sense at all? The brakes look distinctly Stroudley-esque.

    

     Keep up the good work, I'll pop back over soon to see what other goodies have emerged! With any luck I can justify the horsebox kit on my eventual layout.

 

- Alex.

Alex,

 

I'm looking to produce some LB&SC bogie coaches (see from this post onwards), although they'll probably require cast whitemetal Fox bogies (available from 247 developments) and I'm not sure what I'll do for underframe detail yet...

 

As for today, I'm still awaiting some advice with the laser cutter, so this morning has been spent drawing up the artwork for the D53 14ft horsebox body, shown here to the left of the D81/273 15'6" horsebox. The D81/273 is about 5" taller than the D53, although this is almost all in the roof shape, so combining the two will give a nice variation in roof heights as seems to be so prototypical of the pre-grouping period.

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[Skinnylinny]

The cutter's still not quite right, but getting better. Very happy with the louvres at the top of the top doors of on the horse compartment!

I had only intended to score them on the overlay, but accidentally left them set to cut all the way through. I think I'll leave them like that on the final kit!

 

[Edit: There's technically one fewer louvre than there should be, but I won't tell anyone if you don't!]

Edited April 21, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[RedGemAlchemist]

     That's useful to know, thank you! The carriages I was referring to, however, are these suburban ones, they look to be Billington? I think the brake lookout was what was confusing me:

 

LBSCR suburban set.jpg

 

(credit to: Andy Dingley, scanned from Howden, J.R. (1907) The Boys' Book of Locomotives, London: E. Grant Richards, pp.196, accessible at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LBSCR_suburban_train_%28Howden,_Boys%27_Book_of_Locomotives,_1907%29.jpg)

 

     And Skinny, those horseboxes look fantastic! I reckon I can get away with one or two.

 

- Alex

Not really very familiar with Southern coaches, but that is a beautiful photo.

[Nick Holliday]

That's useful to know, thank you! The carriages I was referring to, however, are these suburban ones, they look to be Billington? I think the brake lookout was what was confusing me:

 

LBSCR suburban set.jpg

 

(credit to: Andy Dingley, scanned from Howden, J.R. (1907) The Boys' Book of Locomotives, London: E. Grant Richards, pp.196, accessible at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LBSCR_suburban_train_(Howden,_Boys'_Book_of_Locomotives,_1907).jpg)

 

 

- Alex

That is the Billinton (no G) block set, as already prepared by SkinnyLinny and discussed in post 452 et al. That photo clearly shows the toplights that featured in the earlier sets, although they seem to have been filled in by grouping. It also shows the metal sheeting to the guard's duckets.

[Skinnylinny]

So, another weekend, a little more lasering. A visitor this weekend meant I didn't get as much work done as I'd have liked, but I have done one or two things. Work is slowly progressing on the bogie coach chassis, along with another surprise project. Who here can guess what this is meant to be? Hint: It's 2mm MDF, and it won't be part of the finished project...

 

I'm also still delighted with my Hattons 16" Barclay "Katie" which arrived on Friday. She's not pre-grouping, and is destined to mostly run on the model railway club's forthcoming industrial layout, but she *is* very cute!

 

 

[RedGemAlchemist]

So, another weekend, a little more lasering. A visitor this weekend meant I didn't get as much work done as I'd have liked, but I have done one or two things. Work is slowly progressing on the bogie coach chassis, along with another surprise project. Who here can guess what this is meant to be? Hint: It's 2mm MDF, and it won't be part of the finished project...

 

IMG_20180422_202500131.jpg

 

I'm also still delighted with my Hattons 16" Barclay "Katie" which arrived on Friday. She's not pre-grouping, and is destined to mostly run on the model railway club's forthcoming industrial layout, but she *is* very cute!

 

IMG_20180418_103107983_HDR.jpg

 

IMG_20180418_103022538.jpg

I love Andrew Barclay tanks. I wish I could get my hands on one for cheap

Or rather I just generally love small industrial tank engines. Why my own KLR currently has 5 of them. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[sem34090]

Do what I plan to do to 'Coronation' and fit a pre-1921 style cab!