WIMorrison Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Did you use the grid to create these plans or did you do it freeform? the grid makes it much easier and created a good mimic diagram 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) Thanks. Used the grid as a guide. I don't own a tablet but could borrow one initially from folks as they both have one. I think now the track plan is likely done I feel more comfortable to maybe use the new app as the hard off put is mostly done. Z21, Smails and other bits have been delivered, just gotta wait for the solder n flux to arrive as I ran out. Edited April 30, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) Update. Basic track wiring on 1 board is done minus point motors. I have a chipped Bachmann 101 DMU that I tried with same address, struggled to get it to respond to Z21 control then when tried to reset the chip it tried to run away. Had to reset system, had a read about and after changing CV within CV29 to 2 figure addressing it wasn't a problem. Would rather 4 figure but called it 82 for now. Took around 20 minutes of faff but worked it out. Before I start adding Smail point motors I'd like to clean up the app and add 1 more loco once it's chipped. Please could someone tell us how to delete the loco's from the new app? All the roco default locos and the accidental duplicated one I want to get rid off as they are pointless. Doesn't seem to be a delete option anywhere. Seems awkward n pointless. Help! Edited May 4, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 try swiping to the left like you do in other iPhone apps 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 That was quick responce! Thanks. And FFS! How easy. Bone head mode initiated. Wasn't obvious though. Was pressing n holding and looking through menus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) Making progress after fair bit of stressing. I've got the 1st Circuitron Smail point motor installed and programmed. Went to Vehicles, Accessories, called it Point 1, went to Programming on Main to call it 1, then clicked point 1 on the schematic and it's working. Didn't have to state polarity so was lucky. My question is; would an accesory numbered as 1 conflict with a loco called 1? If so unsure what to number them all. For reference I soldered pins 1 and 8 to the track and pins 2 and 7 were joined together and sent to the frog. Also 3D printed a 7mm thick ABS washer plate to fix the motors as the 9mm ply board was incompatible with the screws I had. Any help on the numbering greatly appreciated. Edited May 4, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Hi, You shouldn't be using 'vehicles' to program a point motor. Got to 'Control Station' not vehicles. Add a point, then edit that point to change its address, then set the Smail to be programmed and send a command from the point editor bu clicking on the 'close' or 'open' icons. Regards, John P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) Oh I see, thanks muchly, will try that in the morning. The Smail and Z21 instructions don't really explain it so it's a lot of trial n error currently. It did work though. When you say set Smail to be programmed do you mean press the button on the motor? If so how do I asign the number to it, how will it know that point motor is to be called 1? Do you just wiggle it on the control station version of the point when you set the state? Edited May 4, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 5, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Normally to program accessories (such as point motors) you put the item into program mode, using either a switch, a link or a push button then send a turn command at the address you want to use. (e.g. just oerate it on screen) You will have needed to set the address in the program. No other devices will respond as they aren't in program mode. Take the device out of program mode (return switch or remove link - push button devices normally reset automatically after a program command.) Send the turn command at the address you used to check that it is working. Accessory addresses aren't the same as loco addresses so locos and accessories won't interfere with one another Edited May 5, 2020 by melmerby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 17 hours ago, Knuckles said: Oh I see, thanks muchly, will try that in the morning. The Smail and Z21 instructions don't really explain it so it's a lot of trial n error currently. I find this a common issue when mixing European and US designed kit. The US instructions tend to be written assuming that you are using a US throttle, so a little bit of thought is required to translate that to work on the Z21, or presumably an ESU ECoS or DR5000. Once you've figured it out it isn't a big deal. So to recap what Keith said. Let's say you want the Smail address to be 21 Press the program button on the Smail, then on the Z21 app add a point use the editor to set its address to 21. Operate the point from the editor. Because the Smail is in programming mode it will see the command on the DCC bus and set its address to 21. Once you are done you'll be able to operate the point from the "Control Station" part of the app. Regards, John P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Thanks guys. I've got the basic jist now, however, I really need some help even more than before. I've just spent literally over 2 hours playing a puzzle game and I've had to switch everything off and come down from the loft as my stress levels are through the roof, literally can feel my being fizzing. Poxy double slips. It has 2 addresses, as you tap the same double slip icon I don't know which is which but ok fine, that's one thing. The 1s and 0s are guess work. I presume the top 2 sets are for the top address and bottom likewise. I presume the right 2 sets are for frog polarities vased on them not moving anything. I can set the straights. I cannot set a curved route as the two INSIST on always throwing together, and often wrongly. Sometimes you just need 1 to move for a curved route and they won't play ball. I've tried physically swapping the wires around a few times too, didn't seem to make a difference. Some combinations of 0 and 1 don't work either, no responce. Single points are fine, doubles are disgusting. Please help. Don't want to fag out and overlay 2 sets of standard points instead. .......ee.. Edited May 5, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kettlewell Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Hi, It can be tricky. Don't assume anything about those addresses - it's all about positive or negative polarity being sent to each motor. Study the attached screenshot. Take for example the straight on routes - ignore the curving routes for now. You can see to move from one straight on route to the other straight on route, BOTH motors need to fire ( study the polarities). Now, for the other two routes, to change from one diagonal route to the other diagonal route, again BOTH motors need to fire. So, now the tricky bit, to set a route that curves, only ONE motor needs to fire. So in that case, the polarity of one motor will change and the other will stay the same. If you get that so far, then the really tricky bit is to work out which set of contacts in the diagramme is operating which motor. This is a matter of trial and error - yep, drives you nuts. But once you can see which motor is firing you can usually see how to set the next one in sequence. Sorry if that's more complicated than it seems - some things you can demonstrate in 2 minutes but takes an hour to explain in writing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Appreciated. It's what I've been doing pretty much though. Over 2 hours, closer to 3 faffing about to me is not good enough when 2 points end to end would be easy, they should have a DS operate like points then no faff. Anyway, problem is I've tried every setting and thete isn't a single one that will fire only 1 motor. They both move together or some combinations of 0 and 1 do zilch. Setting both straights can do but no curved one will happen. Really don't know what to do, it's beyond a joke. .... :-/ Edited May 5, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Why not post the picture as Alan has done (but with your slip and settings) and then we can show you what needs to be set which as you can see is eminently feasible. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 (edited) Sure thing. The 01 and 1s are scrambled though. That's the last setting I've done. I'll add that on the track plan diagram I will be switching 2 and 3 again so 2 is closer to the 1. It's just backwards due to all the faff trying things. Edited May 5, 2020 by Knuckles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 This an issue with the app, especially when used on a phone rather than a tablet, the thing with the double slip is that it cycles through the 4 routes rather than letting you set one at random. I've only just noticed this myself. In the Control Station you can set the logic of each point motor controller, and there is no need to ever rewire anything as you can switch the "polarity" of the point motors in the app rather than physically. Regards, John P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 So you have to set each one as a sequence order based on what the sequence is in the steering track plan, ok. If the app has an error and doesn't work properly what chance we got. Still need to solve this puzzle somehow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Hi, So you need to observe the slip and then press the first state icon for the upper curved route. If the slip operates correctly, nothing more needs to be done for that state. If it doesn't work, change the logic of the two motors for that state. So using your picture as a starting point try 1010 then 0110 then 0101 then 1001, one of those 4 settings should match the state. Repeat for the other 3 states. It is impossible to tell you what the state settings should be just from your pictures as that also depends on how your Smails are wired and setup. Regards, John P 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 @Knuckles Take a look at your logic and then look at Alan's logic and you will see that your's cannot work and can only ever cause the issues that you are having - you have the same logic for bother straight through and for curved Change the logic to what Alan shows and you should find that it works. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I'll have a try now and report back. That current logic was the last setting before I left it though, have beeb teying all sorts. Gimmi 5/10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Knuckles said: So you have to set each one as a sequence order based on what the sequence is in the steering track plan, ok. If the app has an error and doesn't work properly what chance we got. Still need to solve this puzzle somehow. No that's not what I meant. In normal operation the slip will cycle through the 4 routes in a logical and repeatable way. When setting up the slip in the Control Station you can select any 'state' or route at random. Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Knuckles said: So you have to set each one as a sequence order based on what the sequence is in the steering track plan, ok. If the app has an error and doesn't work properly what chance we got. Still need to solve this puzzle somehow. Please stop saying in every post that there are issues with the app, the app works perfectly for what you are trying to do - it doesn't endear you to people when you keep blaming the tools and there are no faults with the tools Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I was replying to Jpendle who said the app had a fault in a rhetorical way. I'm not convinced the app has a fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 1 minute ago, WIMorrison said: Please stop saying in every post that there are issues with the app, the app works perfectly for what you are trying to do - it doesn't endear you to people when you keep blaming the tools and there are no faults with the tools Hi Iain, Actually it was me that said that this was an issue with the app, as I said, I've only just noticed that the app cycles through the routes rather than letting you 'randomly' set a route. Also Alan's logic will only work for Knuckles if his point motors are wired and oriented in the same way as Alan's. I use Tortoises and depending on whether I mount them left to right or vice versa I have to change the logic of the point in the app. Regards, John P 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckles Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Ok, I've had another go. Copied the logic you posted and it didn't work. Fiddled about more and the same issue persists. There is no way it will fire only 1 point motor. They either both move together or nothing happens. So still buggered. :-/ A proper quandry this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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