Is it OO or 00 gauge?

[Chris M]

From what I can make out the GOG have a website which is Gauge0guild.com but are registered at companies house as Gauge “O” Guild. Told you it was those O gaugers causing the problem.

[MarkSG]

The bigger question is, does it really matter?

 

That depends on why the question is being asked.

 

In one sense, it doesn't matter at all. It makes no difference to the actual process of modelling and it makes no difference to the enjoyment of the hobby. We can call our scale/gauge combinations whatever we want, pronounce them how we want and write them how we want. It's the models that matter, not the terminology.

 

However, the original post in this thread was about usage on a poster. And there, it does matter. Because design matters. Given a choice between multiple different ways of presenting the same information, you have to have a reason for choosing one over the others.

 

You could, of course, just pick at random. But it makes more sense to actually put some thought into it, and have some justification for your choices. And, when choosing the text for printed material, one important consideration is what people will expect to read and how they will perceive what you write.

 

So, "00 or OO?" is a perfectly valid question. It's a valid question simply because, when designing a poster, it's a question that has to be answered. So it makes sense to ask other people what they think, too, to see if there's any consensus or majority opinion.

 

It's no different with other aspects of terminology. Is the mechanism for a track junction called a turnout, a switch, or points? Is it a bogie or a truck? Is it a station or a depot? A railway or a railroad? You can argue for any of these, and it's entirely up to you which you prefer to use. But if you're communicating with other people, it ends to make more sense to use whatever they are expecting. 

 

Plus, of course, any question is a question worth asking if people want to talk about it. And there seem to be enough people in this thread wanting to talk about this particular question. A question that makes people think, and makes them want to discuss it, is always a good question. Even if the answer doesn't really matter.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I think the last post sums it up. We are designing a poster and so we want it to be perfect as it represents the club and people will judge us on things like spelling, punctuation, design etc . If our poster (or website) is amateurish then people will assume that the club is amateur ish.

 

So in that context this OO/00 issue is just a small part of making our publicity look professional.

[newbryford]

I think the last post sums it up. We are designing a poster and so we want it to be perfect as it represents the club and people will judge us on things like spelling, punctuation, design etc . If our poster (or website) is amateurish then people will assume that the club is amateur ish.

 

So in that context this OO/00 issue is just a small part of making our publicity look professional.

 

Why not simply do the design using OO and 00 and see which looks better?

 

At the end of the day, most - if not virtually all - OO/00 modellers won't give a t0ss (see what I did there?) whichever you use.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Oakydoke]

The answer is 42

[Junctionmad]

I just realised the time wasted reading this thread is lost forever ,

[Allegheny1600]

Just looking at this again with an eye on history,

In the beginning, there was gauge 3, 2 and 1.

Later, technology moved on and we could build smaller giving us gauge 0.

Later still, we could build half as small so went with H0.

Apparently, British prototypes were too small so we had to make our bodies a bit bigger and called it 00 (or, OO!).

 

Perhaps, due to this compromise, we should have called it HH instead!?!

 

(HH - Half & Half = half 4mm, half 3.5mm)

[Oakydoke]

...or H0/4

[tomparryharry]

Rice pudding, if left in the fridge, can go cold.

 

Forget all of that scale stuff.

 

What about 000?

 

Lone Star Treble0-lectric, anyone?

 

Ian.

[Dungrange]

I always write 00 (zero zero) because that is what I understand to be technically correct (from the historical context of numbered gauges) and also because I think it looks better, but I always pronounce 00 as 'double oh'.  However, I don't really care if others write OO or pronounce in as 'oh oh', since I know what they mean.  Whilst the original gauges; 3, 2, 1, 0, H0 and 00 were numerical, more recent gauges have tended to be alphabetic; S, N, Z and T, so we have a mix of numbers and letters.  It's therefore just a personal thing that I write 00, H0, 0, 009.  

 

In terms of making a poster look professional, I think the question is which looks best, as that is what is most important.  In some fonts the difference between OO and 00 are less obvious than others.  Internet searches may indicate that OO has become more common than 00 in modern usage, but I think using 00 demonstrates a better understanding of the origin of the nomenclature.

[MarkSG]

One way of answering this particular question, of course, is to ask how O gauge is written and pronounced, since OO is ultimately derived from that, albeit not quite directly. And I've never seen or heard that as anything other than "oh gauge" (or, sometimes, "gauge oh"). In particular, even though the larger numbered gauges are Gauge 1, Gauge 2, etc, I've never heard anyone refer to "gauge zero".

 

Also, to be meaningful, HO gauge has to be expanded to "half oh", with the O taken as a letter or symbol rather than a number. Because, as any mathematician will tell you, half zero is zero

[BernardTPM]

I would say that 'oh' in H0 is the number 'oh' and not the letter 'oh' though.

[Chamby]

I think the last post sums it up. We are designing a poster and so we want it to be perfect as it represents the club and people will judge us on things like spelling, punctuation, design etc . If our poster (or website) is amateurish then people will assume that the club is amateur ish.

So in that context this OO/00 issue is just a small part of making our publicity look professional.

I think this thread shows that whichever you decide, you’ll be perceived by some people as right, and some as wrong. But the vast majority won’t even notice such detail!

 

One solution would be to use a font where the 0 and O look the same. Then everyone will be happy.

 

Or else print it 0O. That would certainly get people talking about your poster!

[Martino]

I agree that it is a conundrum as to how it should be printed to be correct. The same applies to H0 or HO. If one used a font where 0 and O are the same......

 

However it would have been easier all round if we’d all stuck to gauge in millimeters or inches and scale as a measurement/foot or indeed metre, or ratio.

 

Therefore running 45mm gauge track at 16mm/ft scale would be perfectly understandable.

 

I think I should stick to drinking this single malt......

[rab]

As far as your advertising material goes,

use a font where O & 0 are the same,

(assuming there is one)!

[andytrains]

I think we should use 0O or O0.

 

Hat, coat, door.

Edited February 10, 2018 by andytrains

[47137]

I would say that 'oh' in H0 is the number 'oh' and not the letter 'oh' though.

I always understood the use of the letter O originated in North America. This rings true - if you look for a European model (say, Roco) it is H0 on Roco's site and in European dealers; and the same product is HO when advertised in North America.

 

So if someone writes OO, I imagine they are following on from the US convention rather than the practice of the O Gauge Guild.

 

- Richard.

[BernardTPM]

The number 'oh' is 0, the letter 'oh' is O - two different things that sound the same, a bit like lead (weight) and led (up the garden path).

Edited February 10, 2018 by BernardTPM

[Clive Mortimore]

P4 less 2.32 :locomotive:

[newbryford]

P4 less 2.32 :locomotive:

 

Errrr...

18.83 - 16.5 is 2.33............

 

I don't work to tolerances of 0.01mm - I work to "bob on"

 

Cheers,

Mick

[BR60103]

Can we debate whether OOO 000 N 9mm should actually have beem called HEM?

[Clive Mortimore]

Errrr...

18.83 - 16.5 is 2.33............

 

I don't work to tolerances of 0.01mm - I work to "bob on"

 

Cheers,

Mick

Yo Michael,

 

It is 18.82 isn't it? or is that S4?

 

See I am still a double zero, nought nought or it is two owes man myself. Thankfully mister shopkeeper knows what I am on about and gives me some lovely Peco track in exchange for my beer tokens.

 

Who's Bob and what has he to do with it?

 

Still trying to work out does it matter?

[Downendian]

Sorry for being off topic but maybe of interest to someone, as the analogy is very similar. I’ve mentioned it before, but will do so again.

 

I’m a blood grouper by training, and the blood group O is a misnomer. It was originally named 0 (for zero or null) in lacking the A and B antigens. Over the ensuing 100 plus years since discovery O has supplanted the original 0, which no one now uses.

 

Neil (A R1r K-k+ Fy(a-b+))

[ForestPines]

It's "oh". And telephone numbers aren't actually numbers. They're words (technically, strings), but made up solely of digit symbols rather than letter symbols. Because a true number can't have a leading zero. In mathematics, 0345 is exactly the same as 345 (three hundred and forty-five). But if you try dialling 345, instead of 0345, you won't get the recipient you expect.

 

In fact, in telephony terms, 0 actually represents ten, not zero. The first automatic telephone exchange, the Strowger system, had a set of rotary switches with 11 positions: "off" (not connected to anything), and ten "on" positions, each connected to a different switch on the next rack, so that you can link a route through the switch bank by connecting the first switch to, say, the fifth switch in the next row, and that switch to the second switch in the next, and so on until you get all the way through. The switches are moved by pulses sent by the telephone (again, if you're old enough, you'll remember rotary dial telephones and recall hearing them send the pulses). Starting from zero (off), each pulse pushes the switch round one more position until the pulses pause, and that's where it stays. To get to the tenth position, the phone has to send ten pulses, but they are sent by the position marked '0' on the dial.

 

So, if we wanted to be really pedantic, we could express 0345 in speech as "ten three four five". But that's clearly not intuitive, and potentially very misleading (since that could equally be interpreted by a listener as 10345). So we use "oh three four five" instead, which matches what is written.It is not, however, "zero three four five", since that is wrong both mathematically and technically.

 

And of course you can map letters to different amounts of pulses, as used to be done in areas such as London which had the "director system" of exchanges - each exchange's code was a mnemonic name.

 

Interestingly, if you compare the original set of STD codes with a vintage British telephone dial, you can clearly see that the original codes were planned to be of the format 0XXn with the letters being a mnemonic for the town and the digit roughly indicating the town's size.  For example, 0472 for Grimsby was presumably 0GR2; 0473 for Ipswich would have been 0IP3, and then you have Gravesend 0GR4.  However, although this is very clear from the codes, I have never actually seen any STD codes written this way.

[johnlambert]

And of course you can map letters to different amounts of pulses, as used to be done in areas such as London which had the "director system" of exchanges - each exchange's code was a mnemonic name.

 

Interestingly, if you compare the original set of STD codes with a vintage British telephone dial, you can clearly see that the original codes were planned to be of the format 0XXn with the letters being a mnemonic for the town and the digit roughly indicating the town's size.  For example, 0472 for Grimsby was presumably 0GR2; 0473 for Ipswich would have been 0IP3, and then you have Gravesend 0GR4.  However, although this is very clear from the codes, I have never actually seen any STD codes written this way.

I wondered why the dialing codes for Stratford (0789) and Rugby (0788) were so similar, but checking my home phone I can see that R and S corespond to 7, T and U to 8.  It all makes sense now.