Best idea for recycling in this country for ages

[jetmorgan]

Brilliant idea which harks back to the old days of getting a deposit back on your bottles from the corner shop. I want to get Britain to the top of the great world recycling list. Even I can remember...if only just as it was the 1970's of taking bottles of lemonade back to the corner shop and getting 3p back on them. I also wonder if it might be better that we swap back to using glass bottles more as they are easier to reuse and recycle.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42953038

 

Urge anyone to also sign the government petition as well. 10,000 signatures needed before the government take any notice of it.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200215

[Neil]

Yes I saw that too and thought it was a good idea. Interesting that the Norwegian government had to threaten the drinks industry with increased taxation to get them to implement the scheme. I think our own government generally tends to put too much reliance on voluntary schemes; what's the purpose of government if it's not to organise society for our benefit?

[Guest]

I think it's a great idea too.

"I also wonder if it might be better that we swap back to using glass bottles more"...

The only reserve I have about using glass for bottles more than plastic is a typical Friday/Saturday night town centre scenario... a glass bottle makes a handy weapon and smashed glass all over the street is obviously not a good thing. If we could somehow take the drunken yob out of the equation AND recycle more/cut down on plastics, the world would indeed be a better place.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Pete 75C

[Guest]

The petition has a long way to go, but +1 from me.

[kevinlms]

The problem isn't so much the COLLECTING of material for recycling. Having the public stick it in different bins for types of rubbish is quite good & not hugely expensive.

The major problem is what to do with the collected material. 

 

In parts of Australia the recycled material collection industry is about to collapse. There were some products being made from recycled plastic, garden furniture, fence posts and the like.

 

But around 2011, the Chinese wanted it, because of the high cost of oil. So large quantities of plastic were shoved into containers & shipped off. There is was treated in a very basic polluting way, of which the Chinese government has now stopped.

 

Of course the local industry shut down, because the supply disappeared. So now there is no market for the material.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/council-tells-ratepayers-to-minimise-recycling-as-chinese-ban-bites-20180130-p4yz3v.html

 

 

As I see it, you need a good, ongoing market for products that can be made from recycled material, far more important than merely collecting it efficiently and a high percentage rate of the collecting.

[jcm@gwr]

One more signature from me.

Edited February 8, 2018 by jcm@gwr

[Enterprisingwestern]

A fantastic idea which I fully support, but you lost me at the first tickbox!

 

Mike.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

If we could somehow take the drunken yob out of the equation AND recycle more/cut down on plastics, the world would indeed be a better place.

 The drunken yob is a minority, and hardly has any effect. (Utilitarian principle, let 'em die from their injuries. That'll solve the problem pretty fast)

 

The bottom line is that recycling is as effective as an elastoplast alone for a broken leg: it has its place, but only after the major damage.has been treated, and surface wound dressing is required. I'll illustrate this with our essential liquid intake.

 

First principle, use less. Much, much less. Drink tapwater. It's perfectly adequate to sustain life and zero packaging is required.

If you must have fizzy pop or alcohol, make it yourself with reusable equipment,  salvaged and repurposed wherever possible, and bottles reused many times.

When the bottles and other equipment is at end of life, then recycle. Maximum reuse of manufactured objects until they are worn out is the objective, before recycling.

 

 

Most people don't like to hear this, and the electability of any political party attempting to bring in such a programme is zero

Edited February 8, 2018 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[Arthur]

 

I partake in YouGov surveys and they had this question yesterday, i.e would you support the introduction of a Norwegian style bottle deposit scheme.

 

The results were;

 

In favour. 77%

Against. 11%

Don’t Know. 12%

 

A clear outcome.

 

.

[jonny777]

Yes, I do not see why (other than very successful marketing by the multi-nationals) anyone has to buy bottled water in this country. 

 

After all those £billions spent on treatment plants to make our tap water some of the safest and cleanest in the world (and you can buy simple charcoal filters if you need to be absolutely sure), and then most people go out and buy a plastic bottle full at a price per litre which would buy gallons of the stuff out of the taps. 

 

Get a grip people. You have been conned by the fake idea that somehow bottled water is "cool and trendy", when it is exactly the opposite - i.e. killing the planet. 

 

In ten years time the weight of plastic in the oceans will have exceeded the weight of fish. 

[Reorte]

Yes, I do not see why (other than very successful marketing by the multi-nationals) anyone has to buy bottled water in this country. 

Out and about and just want a quick drink of water, and not be lugging a bottle around with you all day. Buying it planned in advance though, large bottles of it, that's a bit bonkers, although not as much as I saw when I was living in France where an entire supermarket aisle was dedicated to it, and people would fill up trolleys with bottles. The tap water there seemed fine to me.

[Reorte]

The advantage of glass is that it's easier to reuse than plastic (I'm thinking from a deposit point of view rather than at home here), although that hardly seems to be encouraged these days. The biggest problem with getting people to recycle plastic bottles - putting aside reuse and using less for now - isn't finding reasons to encourage people to do it, it's providing them with the means to do so. Do we need fancy deposit-returning bottle eating machines, or just a suitable large skip? My local supermarket removed the plastic bin from its recycling corner a year or two ago, and it's certainly not the only place that's done that. I think the council will usually take them (access issues mean I get a more basic rubbish service), but it didn't stop the supermarket's skip from filling up.

[forest2807]

Signed. Please share on social media folks, in order to maximise exposure. I would, but I don't use it!

[duncan]

I didn't see this in the BBC article about Norwegian recycling, but I believe any plastic bottles must be 1 of 2 types.  In the UK, it appears that any plastic can be used with corresponding recycling problems & costs.  But then I believe Norway is a more regulated society than the UK.

[Enterprisingwestern]

A clear outcome.

 

Very clever Arthur when talking about water in plastic bottles!

 

Mike.

[w124bob]

It's the drinks industry who have a lot to answer for, plus the constant barage of quasi health mumbo jumbo about the amount of fluid we need to drink. Alternatives are available.

[spikey]

I am reminded of the woman I saw at the recycling bins behind the local Waitrose, conscientiously taking her recycling out of a jute bag and carefully putting it in the appropriate bins.  The bag said on it "I'm saving the planet".  She was driving a massive Audi 4x4, which she left ticking over whilst she did her bit to save the planet for us.  Shortly after, I saw her in Waitrose, accompanied by her four kids.

 

Saving the planet indeed ...

[royaloak]

I didn't see this in the BBC article about Norwegian recycling, but I believe any plastic bottles must be 1 of 2 types.  In the UK, it appears that any plastic can be used with corresponding recycling problems & costs.  But then I believe Norway is a more regulated society than the UK.

That is easy to rectify, inform the bottle makers to only use one or two approved types of plastic or pay a hefty tax to use any other type.

 

This is a rare occasion where I agree to increasing taxes to pay for something, I mean, it isnt like we need to use plastics to make bottles is it!

[spikey]

The fundamental problem isn't how best to recycle plastics, it's how to get people to stop buying so much overpackaged crap in the first place.

 

Be that as it may, when they did away with free plastic bags at checkouts, it occurred to me that before long, we might actually need to buy plastic bags with which to line the kitchen bin.  But it soon became apparent that we won't.  I've tapped into a seemingly-endless supply of clean heavy-duty plastic "Bag For Life" bags from all the major supermarkets, all mine for the taking from the nearest recycling bins, into which they're obviously dropped after first use.

 

Could it be that there's more smugness to be had by conscientiously recycling them than by re-using them?   

[Andy Hayter]

That is easy to rectify, inform the bottle makers to only use one or two approved types of plastic or pay a hefty tax to use any other type.

 

This is a rare occasion where I agree to increasing taxes to pay for something, I mean, it isnt like we need to use plastics to make bottles is it!

 

Regarding your first statement, I fully agree and in fact the vast majority of plastic drinks bottles are made from just one plastic - PET - so forcing a change would not/ should not be a major issue.  [Note the caps are made from a second plastic because it has the right properties to form a good seal under pressure.  The two can easily be separated in dedicated recycling systems.]

 

On the second statement I assume you are suggesting a return to glass. 

 

If glass were to be invented today as a packaging material it would probably be banned:

1.  It requires enormous amounts of energy to manufacture and to recycle.  In fact much more energy than a plastic bottle including the oil content of the plastic itself.

2.  It is not biodegradable.  The plastics industry talks of a lifetime of 4-800 years before plastic eventually breaks down and degrades,  Archaeologists are still digging up Roman glass.

3.  Its non-degradability does not matter of course if bottles and jars are recycled.  They are not.  A recent search on recycle levels of glass in the UK showed that a major manufacturer is having to use over 60% of his production with virgin sand and soda because recycle levels are so low (38%).

4.  If it breaks - and it frequently does in the supply chain from bottle manufacturer to filling site to warehouse to distribution warehouse of the supermarket to supermarket to Mrs Jones's cupboard - it is very dangerous.  It was the supermarkets that pushed for a switch to plastic because of the numbers of their staff and customers who were being injured due to broken glass packaging.  Drop a plastic lemonade bottle in the supermarket aisle and the worst that will happen is that when the bottle is opened it will decorate the ceiling.  Do the same with a glass bottle and the bottle explodes sending glass shards as shrapnel into anything or anyone in the way.

5.  Plastic bottles are a lot lighter than glass so less fuel is used when transporting the bottles.  This even applies to the very thick plastic bottles used in Germany by the Coca Cola Corp. (and others) who re-use their plastic bottles through the deposit system mentioned above.

 

Plastic is currently coming in for a lot of criticism recently (and probably rightly so) but as a replacement for glass it is a much better material where it can be used and we need to somehow encourage recycling and re-use.  A deposit system would go a long way towards this IMHO.

 

Edited to clarify the first statement relates to drinks bottles.  Other bottles/containers do use other materials - washing up liquid, detergents, hand soaps and so on - where PET may nor be appropriate. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Andy Hayter

[Classsix T]

Nice one Andy. Plastics aren't the problem, it's us.

 

C6T.

[Kylestrome]

Signed.

 

In Germany returning glass bottles has always been a part of everyday life and returnable PET bottles have been around since the early nineties IIRC. I guess the Norwegians have taken it a step further.

[Guest]

Regarding buying water, nope - have never done that in the UK. Kids, however, did get suckered by the "Evian on the go" fad. I've weaned them off it. We recently got rid of our Brita filter fridge jug and have gone back to tap water for cooking/drinking. Kids refill their water bottles from the tap numerous times until they end up in the recycling bin. Kettle needs descaling a lot more frequently but taste? Not noticed any difference so wondering if those expensive water cartridges were just another con...

On a related note, just walked down to Tesco for some milk and as they've just opened, the outside area hasn't been tidied since last night. Counted 5 plastic bottles just dropped on the ground around the chav bench. People are the problem, indeed.

[chriswright03]

Back in the day when you took your glass bottles back to the corner shop and got your deposit back the shopkeeper would put it with the rest in crates in the back yard for collection by the company later.  Then the local kids would climb the fence, nick the bottles and take them into the shop to get the money!  Caught a few doing that.

[chris p bacon]

Just to throw a curve ball in about recycling.

 

Our district council is Central Bedfordshire and they are currently consulting over refuse collection, their plan is to take the 'black' bin from fortnightly to 3 weekly and to charge £40 a year for the 'green' bin. This is starting to sound like recycling is optional.  We already have a huge problem with fly tipping (residents pay others in good faith to dispose of rubbish, but they fly tip it) and I can't see this improving it.

 

Personally I see having deposits as a good thing, a couple of years ago I went to Finland to watch WRC Rally, the Finns are pretty heavy drinkers but out in the forest stages there was no sign of rubbish or beer cans as the kids pick them up for the deposit money. Whenever an adult finished drinking they would whistle and wave their can in the air and kids would come running for it.