MarcD Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Stunning is the only word for it. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 How does the smokebox open as the bufferbeam is in the way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 How does the smokebox open as the bufferbeam is in the way? With difficulty. This is modelled exactly as on the real thing. We believe that when built the practice was to remove the front buffer beam in order to open the smokebox door. However, as my photograph shows, the owners of SHARPTHORN clearly found this a cumbersome practice and modified the door accordingly. CK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 With difficulty. This is modelled exactly as on the real thing. We believe that when built the practice was to remove the front buffer beam in order to open the smokebox door. However, as my photograph shows, the owners of SHARPTHORN clearly found this a cumbersome practice and modified the door accordingly. CK Really? I can't imagine that the bufferbeam had to be removed in order to open the smokebox door. Removal is quite a major job and a smokebox door needs to opened reasonably frequently for the cleaning of tubes and removal of ash from the smokebox. The early Ks had a top-hinged half door that would have cleared the bufferbeam and so they're not going to change to a side-opening door that then means a massive amount of work for crews and downtime for the owners. I expect those with the side-hinged door were like Sharpthorn from the start. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Really? I can't imagine that the bufferbeam had to be removed in order to open the smokebox door. Removal is quite a major job and a smokebox door needs to opened reasonably frequently for the cleaning of tubes and removal of ash from the smokebox. The early Ks had a top-hinged half door that would have cleared the bufferbeam and so they're not going to change to a side-opening door that then means a massive amount of work for crews and downtime for the owners. I expect those with the side-hinged door were like Sharpthorn from the start. Yes, it does seem an odd arrangement. A case of Hutber's Law in operation perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 15, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2018 So is the split modelled or is the first job is to lay your razor saw on the bufferbeam and carefully cut? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/getsingleobject.php?rnum=L2563 This is Metropolitan Brill No. 1 the smokebox does not seem to have the bottom cut off. also what is the budge on the side of the smokebox? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 So is the split modelled or is the first job is to lay your razor saw on the bufferbeam and carefully cut? We will leave that to you. http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/getsingleobject.php?rnum=L2563 This is Metropolitan Brill No. 1 the smokebox does not seem to have the bottom cut off. also what is the budge on the side of the smokebox? Link is not opening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/getobject.php?rnum=L1010&searchitem=brill&mtv=L1&pnum=1 http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/getobject.php?rnum=L2563&searchitem=brill&mtv=L1&pnum=1 Is this better? Also the smokebox looks slightly more bulbus than on the model. Edited November 15, 2018 by David Bigcheeseplant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted November 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Looks like a smaller door that might just clear the buffer beam? (second photo). Edited November 15, 2018 by Nile Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted November 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2018 This photo of one of the Brill "K"s shows the smokebox door to be smaller and more dished than on the model - not that it is necessarily standard. Whether it would clear the b.beam - either by passing above it or by missing the back of it when opened is moot ... I suspect that the lump on the s.box side is something temporarily left there. A picture of the loco on p.119 of Simpson's The Brill Tramway does not show it. It also confirms that the door was not in two pieces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I think the thing on the side of the smoke box is a speed restrictior or governor reading though some info I have found, I checked some other photos and Wooton no. 2 has it too. Which makes me think we’re they removed later on when the Met toot over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 http://www.transportarchive.org.uk/getsingleobject.php?rnum=L2563 This is Metropolitan Brill No. 1 the smokebox does not seem to have the bottom cut off. also what is the budge on the side of the smokebox? The shot is taken from a low level and there's a rope on the bufferbeam right where the join would be, so that's inconclusive. Looking through the two books that I have on Manning Wardles, the photos of K and Old Class I (which are virtually identical and of the same period as the K) where the side-opening door can be seen clearly enough there are several that show the split. If MW required the bufferbeam to be removed just to open the smokebox door then their customers would have quickly have taken their business across the other side of Jack Lane, where Hudswell Clarke got round the same problem on their small contractors' 0-4-0STs by simply having a cut out in the bufferbeam! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Just reading locomotives built by Manning Wardle volume 2 it states "from engine number 1192 the smokebox door was changed to a circular type which necessitated changes to the buffer beam" Now what were the changes to the buffer beam? Edited November 15, 2018 by David Bigcheeseplant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Or, slacken off the door, remove the hinge pin and the door will come away :-) David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 How does the smokebox open as the bufferbeam is in the way? My house isnt far off the same era and all the doors have rising hinges... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted November 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2018 It's interesting to see the price of the DCC and DCC sound options have crept up, the sound option [which I've ordered] now being GBP380. Not a criticism, rather that minituarisation carries a premium and Zimo+sound especially so. About the same price as a clunky big Heljan 05 diesel with no DCC or sound on board though..... Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 It's interesting to see the price of the DCC and DCC sound options have crept up, the sound option [which I've ordered] now being GBP380. Not a criticism, rather that minituarisation carries a premium and Zimo+sound especially so. About the same price as a clunky big Heljan 05 diesel with no DCC or sound on board though..... Dava Indeed Dava. We are having to use an 18 pin socket and a new decoder with an integral 18-pin plug and the parts are more expensive, aggravated by the recent gyrations in the value of sterling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted November 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2018 I found a copy of Mabbott's Manning Wardle loco works list in the GCR Emporium today. It's almost incredible that the K class was built over 50 years, from 1863-1913 with some 250 locos built. The side-hinged smokebox door opening and buffer beam clearance must have been resolved by the time later examples were built? They sported a wonderful selection of names from working on so many construction projects - 'Northern Outfall' [no.44] being one! I rather like 'Fat Nellie' [179], I wonder which lady inspired that name! Yet surprisingly few photographs other than the GCR Newton collection held online by Leics County Council archives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van der Kolk Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Prices are now confirmed as: DC Ready £255, DCC Fitted £310, DCC and sound fitted £380. Carriage is £9 per loco. Delivery is targeted for early 2019. www.minervamodelrailways.co.uk Hi Chris, does this DCC decoder got a "stay allive" or a "Goldcap" for all the happy moments when this great small loco crawls on all our layouts. Henk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Hi Chris, does this DCC decoder got a "stay allive" or a "Goldcap" for all the happy moments when this great small loco crawls on all our layouts. Henk Dear Henk, We will not be supplying "Stay-Alive" with the the DCC equipment. The decoder will have the stay-alive terminals, but it will be a major challenge of ingenuity to fit stay-alive apparatus into the model. Regards, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2018 Chris, is it because of losing some weight there’s an issue with space? I know most models are capable of longer trains than is realistic due to model curves and gradients but is there a realistic option on future designs of having a pocket in the casting suitable for speakers, or stay alives, filled with a separate cast block or does that raise costs in parts and assembly too much? We always seem to be hacking into perfectly good models so just wondered why DCC ‘pockets’ are still so rare. I guess it’s the trade off on dc vs Dcc but I do wonder if part of the reason for Dcc still lagging a bit is the difficulty in fitting even basic dcc extras, just wondering Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Chris, is it because of losing some weight there’s an issue with space? I know most models are capable of longer trains than is realistic due to model curves and gradients but is there a realistic option on future designs of having a pocket in the casting suitable for speakers, or stay alives, filled with a separate cast block or does that raise costs in parts and assembly too much? We always seem to be hacking into perfectly good models so just wondered why DCC ‘pockets’ are still so rare. I guess it’s the trade off on dc vs Dcc but I do wonder if part of the reason for Dcc still lagging a bit is the difficulty in fitting even basic dcc extras, just wondering Paul, I can assure you that we have tried just about everything and DCC is an integral part of the design process. This is a small locomotive. We have had to source and install a new smaller motor to make space. This involved risk because the motor and gear train we normally use have been proven in the Ixion Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0ST and Fowler 0-4-0DM and the Minerva Peckett E 0-4-0ST, Kerr Stuart Victory 0-6-0PT and GWR 57XX/8750 0-6-0PT. We are happy with the new motor and it created some space under the saddle tank. We looked at the smokebox for the speaker, but it contains fixing points for the superstructure and chassis. The bunker is the wrong shape for a speaker and the firebox contains the gears. There is no space in the chassis block, which already has cavities for the gears and axles and channels for the pick-up wires. The chassis also stops well short of the buffer beams per the prototype reducing further available space. The DCC socket is a new 18-pin version and the DC blanking plate includes the pcb with suppressing equipment that is redundant in DCC mode thus making available more space for the decoder when it is removed. The ZIMO DCC decoder we will be using is also new to us. Regards, Chris K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 This is a small locomotive. ... and this loco is far away ... sorry, couldn't resist The DCC socket is a new 18-pin version and the DC blanking plate includes the pcb with suppressing equipment that is redundant in DCC mode thus making available more space for the decoder when it is removed. The ZIMO DCC decoder we will be using is also new to us. Good plan putting the suppressor kit on the blanking plate ... I never understood why this wasn't done from the beginning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2018 Thanks Chris, I appreciated from the previous photos how small it is and understand there’s a balance between engineering and ‘wants’. With the Bachmann Baldwin in 009 having the speaker fitted though I’m beginning to think it soon will be possible with all locos but I guess they had inside knowledge of that coming at the design stage 3+ years ago. I guess that particular Zimo decoder won’t handle O gauge current though. Must clear out some stuff to finance one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now