What happened to our engineering industry ?

[jjb1970]

I'm afraid I have a more sceptical view; I think today we have lightweight politicians and no statesmen. The major problem with politicians [in my opinion] is everything has to first pass through their political filter. This seems to mean that if a course of action doesn't fit with their political dogma then that solution is ignored even when it is the correct one. 

 

The problem with saying we're still ship building in Britain is how much of the ship, particularly the high value parts, is actually British?

For Example: One of my last ships was built on the Clyde, but from memory:

Steel: European

Engines: Finland

Generators: Germany or France

Propulsion Motors: Sweden

Aux Engine: Sweden

Rudder and Steering Gear: Norway

Stabilisers: Germany

Switchboards: UK

Machinery Control Systems: UK

Boats: Uk

Boat Launching System: Netherlands

Pumps: Uk. [Though by the time the sister ship was built production of these pumps had moved to China]

Bow & Stern Thrusters: Norway

Most of the Accommodation Fit was German / Polish

Propeller & Shafting: Europe

 

I didn't say I particularly agreed with many of our political leaders or that their policies were right, I commented that on the whole they're a pretty intelligent, well meaning lot and that they have no intent to slash and burn the economy. If running the country was easy and there were simple answers then we'd live in a splendid country, the last thing any government wants is for their policies to fail, to be unpopular and to be booted out. They may get it wrong, and sometime get it very wrong, but that is very different from the sort of malfeasance often attributed to politicians.

 

On the source of origin of all the bits that constitute a ship, that is true but no different to any other manufactured product in the modern world excepting the most simple of items and it is just as true of ships built elsewhere. And it is a two way thing, an awful lot of American Boeing airliners have British made RR engines hanging under the wings for example.

[Robin2]

if a course of action doesn't fit with their political dogma

Your notion of the existence of political dogma is very generous. The only thing I have noticed is naked self interest - what will get me re-elected, what will get me a front-bench seat (in that order).

 

And I think that reconciles neatly with what @jjb1970 said.

 

...R

[Mike Storey]

I think Princess (Thrapston?) went bust and Sunseeker in Poole are owned by the Chinese now.

 

Fairline in Oundle (near Peterborough) went bust, sacked 75% of its workforce, then two Russians (nonetheless UK residents now) bought it and it now has record order books and is expanding this year into a new production facilities in Southampton (Oundle is a little bit far from the ocean now). It's not what you know......etc.

 

Brooke Marine (a serious small to medium shipbuilder in Lowestoft) and Small & Co (a smaller operator in Lowestoft but they outlasted Brooke Marine, somehow) have now been taken over by Dover-based Burgess Marine. I am old enough to remember some serious boat building in Lowestoft (I was born there but never lived there, only on long summer holidays with my grandparents), and I never thought I would see any more serious marine activity in the town, bar servicing the gas platform vessels and the odd fisheries protection servicing. Now they are part of a group that doesn't build ships (apart from their Meercat range) but they make an awful lot of money from servicing and re-fitting them, and have expanded into French and Dutch ports. There is new life yet in the old dog.

 

But all the other engineering companies that were once there have long gone - Eastern Counties bus body builders and a huge Kirkley double glazing maker (which was rail served incredibly) - but I have recently found a precision engineering company, Gisleham, that have expanded mightily (due to off-shore work mainly) and are actively recruiting!

[LBRJ]

Degree, or a great deal of professional experience. Dad was a member of the Institute of Heating and Ventilating Engineers, which later became that of Building Services' Engineers, which better described it's members. Thing is, he left school at 14 with no qualifications at all, fitter/turner apprenticeship at Woolwich Arsenal, basically, he studied for his OND in evening classes at tech. college, H & V draughtsman, then into the more 'engineer' grades of work, including for two fairly large local authorities. In the end he was a FIBSE.

 

That could almost describe my Dad too, are you my brother?

Mine took a slightly more winding route from 14 year old apprentice artisan to Regional Engineer in the NHS.

[chris p bacon]

Fairline in Oundle (near Peterborough) went bust, sacked 75% of its workforce, then two Russians (nonetheless UK residents now) bought it and it now has record order books and is expanding this year into a new production facilities in Southampton (Oundle is a little bit far from the ocean now). It's not what you know......etc.

 

Of course, it was Fairline, Thanks for the correction Mike.

 

Getting to the coast was the issue for them, what you have to consider is that this transporter has just come through 'Great Staughton' with 90 degree bends  and before that Kimbolton where car transporters are banned because of a another 90 degree bend.

There were Police outriders that rode in advance moving everyone aside.

 

 

How it got through here is anyones guess.

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2964952,-0.3881942,3a,75y,134.59h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgBGpk1L90gWZBPRx_AtECg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

Thanks for the interlude....., back on topic....

[Barry O]

Having gone away and had a think about this...

 

As a Chareterd Engineer I am fed up with being seen as a low life by some of the people in GB. If you want a megabucks, "respected" career don't become a real life Engineer in the UK.

 

People see us as people who fix cars, fit gas boilers etc despite the fact that whichever way you become a Chartered Engineer you must have proof that you have been in a job/number of jobs of a sufficiently high standard to be seen as a position of responsibility.

 

And yes, as in my signature below I have been a Rocket Scientist, worked on the largest Nuclear Fusion Tokamak in the world (where the scientist from across the EU showed the Engineers a great deal of respect), designed large parts of Armoured Fighting vehicles, helped to build very large construction projects across the UK and helped to deliver the odd Nuclear Submarine.But, apparently unlike Doctors, Veterinaries and Teachers I may not be professional enough to sign passport photographs.

 

I personally , have enjoyed a career in Engineering ..the rewards on a financial side were ok, but if you want respect do something else or lived elsewhere in the world

 

Baz

Edited April 13, 2018 by Barry O

[Bernard Lamb]

Yep, my next-door neighbour works for Sunseeker as a Marine Engineer, and spends a lot of his (working) time in Hong Kong. 

 

At one time I was working in the unit next door to their factory in Poole.

I was involved in building an automatic welding machine.

When the power was turned on it knocked out the electricity supply for half the street. At the time we denied all knowledge as to the cause of the problem.    

At that time there were several leading engineering companies in the area, in Poole itself and based in various buildings on the airport site.

I remember being shown a multi headed drilling machine that was used in the repair of RAF planes. A fantastic piece of kit for the date. Are people working on complex projects like that today? 

I did manage to get a run down to Swanage with a trial of one of their boats.

Bernard

[Robin2]

People see us as people who fix cars, fit gas boilers etc despite the fact that whichever way you become a Chartered Engineer you must have proof that you have been in a job/number of jobs of a sufficiently high standard to be seen as a position of responsibility.

I don't recall any effort by the engineering professional bodies to prevent technicians being described as engineers. It is probably illegal to call yourself a medical doctor if you are not qualified. Why haven't the engineering bodies lobbied for an equivalent legal status for "engineer" ?

 

...R

Edited April 13, 2018 by Robin2

[62613]

are you my brother?

 

No, but he is on here

[jjb1970]

I don't recall any effort by the engineering professional bodies to prevent technicians being described as engineers. It is probably illegal to call yourself a medical doctor if you are not qualified. Why haven't the engineering bodies lobbied for an equivalent legal status for "engineer" ?

 

...R

ECUK has the registration grade of TEng for technicians, and technicians are eligible for membership of the professional engineering bodies. There are three levels of registration in the UK (plus EurIng for internationally minded people) - CEng (equivalent to PEng in much of the rest of the world), IEng (what much of the world calls an engineering technologist) and TEng (technician). Therefore technicians are recognised by both the registration body (ECUK) and professional institutes as a level of engineer, however it should be noted that the requirements to register as TEng may not align with the skills, training, competence of many who have the generic job title or describe themselves as technicians.

Edited April 13, 2018 by jjb1970

[Barry O]

I don't recall any effort by the engineering professional bodies to prevent technicians being described as engineers. It is probably illegal to call yourself a medical doctor if you are not qualified. Why haven't the engineering bodies lobbied for an equivalent legal status for "engineer" ?

 

...R

They have but such is the lack of respect it is never reported by the press or TV companies

[Coryton]

I remember being shown a multi headed drilling machine that was used in the repair of RAF planes. A fantastic piece of kit for the date. Are people working on complex projects like that today? 

 

Not sure what you mean by "like that", but the UK certainly does engineering R&D.

 

I mentioned the space industry earlier - the UK has a big role in 'one-off' science and exploration missions where essentially everything you build is a prototype. 

 

Someone above mentioned fusion research - again something that the UK has a large involvement in.

[Fat Controller]

At one time I was working in the unit next door to their factory in Poole.

I was involved in building an automatic welding machine.

When the power was turned on it knocked out the electricity supply for half the street. At the time we denied all knowledge as to the cause of the problem.  

At that time there were several leading engineering companies in the area, in Poole itself and based in various buildings on the airport site.

I remember being shown a multi headed drilling machine that was used in the repair of RAF planes. A fantastic piece of kit for the date. Are people working on complex projects like that today? 

I did manage to get a run down to Swanage with a trial of one of their boats.

Bernard

Hamworthy Engineering- process heating equipment

[Robin2]

They have but such is the lack of respect it is never reported by the press or TV companies

This always intrigues me because none of the press, TV, Film, Theatre, music  etc could exist in its present form without a huge input from engineers.

 

...R

[Fat Controller]

This always intrigues me because none of the press, TV, Film, Theatre, music  etc could exist in its present form without a huge input from engineers.

 

...R

It used to amuse me when, in the days of Tyne-Tees Television, all the various technical staff used to drink in one pub (Rose and Crown), and all the 'luvvies' in the Egypt Cottage opposite. They didn't mix at all.

[Steven B]

There's plenty of world leading bio, medical and pharmacoligical engineering going on in the UK.

 

JCB and Rolls-Royce (aero, marine and train engines) are doing OK too...

 

 

 

Steven B.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Steven B

[Clearwater]

There’s a general lack of respect/healthy disrespect for a variety of professions for example: qualified accountants referred to as “bean counters”, lawyers as “sharks”, medical doctors as “quacks.” At times it can be wryly amusing at other times it manifests more negatively as cynicism towards someone’s expert opinion gained through many years’ hard work.

 

The world of marketing collides with reality too. Hence the title inflation of the person who fixes your washing machine as an “engineer” or the person on the shop floor as a “retail consultant.” Rightly or wrongly, the marketeers perceive such titles make customers more receptive and/or keep staff happier.

[Robin2]

qualified accountants referred to as “bean counters”, lawyers as “sharks”,

If engineers designed bridges the way some accountants prepare company accounts or split hairs like some lawyers then the bridges would fall down.

 

...R

Edited April 13, 2018 by Robin2

[pete_mcfarlane]

There’s a general lack of respect/healthy disrespect for a variety of professions for example: qualified accountants referred to as “bean counters”, lawyers as “sharks”, medical doctors as “quacks.” At times it can be wryly amusing at other times it manifests more negatively as cynicism towards someone’s expert opinion gained through many years’ hard work.

 

And it often takes the form of "the idiots in [other profession] don't know what they are doing and have no respect for [my profession]". 

[Kickstart]

The world of marketing collides with reality too. Hence the title inflation of the person who fixes your washing machine as an “engineer” or the person on the shop floor as a “retail consultant.” Rightly or wrongly, the marketeers perceive such titles make customers more receptive and/or keep staff happier.

Job titles in IT (where I work generally) are generally meaningless. Been applying for jobs and had to dig out my old contract to see my job title as I had taken zero interest in what had been made up for it.

 

Katy

[peanuts]

No, but he is on here

coooooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[DIW]

As a Chartered Engineer...<snip> I may not be professional enough to sign passport photographs.

 

 

Actually if you are a CEng, you are on the list of acceptable signatories for passport applications. Being CEng was something which gained me some popularity amongst the British of my colleagues during my time in the space industry at Betzdorf Luxembourg, when their passports came up for renewal. This was as far back as the early 1990s. These days there seems to be a longer list of acceptable signatories; I'm not nearly so popular!

[jjb1970]

One of the problems with professional registration is that for many people in industry it has little real value and many see no point in making the effort to do it.

 

I did it mid way through my career (well mid way to date, still got a few years left in me yet - unless I drop dead) simply because as a sea going engineer and then in electricity generation I was happy enough with my pay and my employers had no requirement to be registered with ECUK or another professional body. At sea I needed an STCW certificate of competency to sail at a given rank and in electricity generation my experience and BEng were considered quite sufficient.

 

I decided to go for IEng, then do an MSc so I could get CEng because although my employer had no requirement to be CEng, it became clear that it would be useful if I wanted to develop my career in that company. And it made a big difference when I worked for a classification society as it was considered to be an underpinning part of demonstrating technical competence (for their benefit, should I ever make a faux pas which led to a disaster and corpses).

 

I am very happy I did it, it has improved my employability and I take satisfaction from the fact I did it, but in all honesty I really don't think it has added anything to my pay or anything. And I think that is the rub for many, which is a little sad in a way but also understandable.

[Barry O]

This always intrigues me because none of the press, TV, Film, Theatre, music  etc could exist in its present form without a huge input from engineers.

 

...R

They reflect the views of parliament and the people. Ie Engineers fix boilers and are good with hammers.

[Barry O]

Actually if you are a CEng, you are on the list of acceptable signatories for passport applications. Being CEng was something which gained me some popularity amongst the British of my colleagues during my time in the space industry at Betzdorf Luxembourg, when their passports came up for renewal. This was as far back as the early 1990s. These days there seems to be a longer list of acceptable signatories; I'm not nearly so popular!

I am a CEng and I signed a photo last year which was bounced as I am not a "professional.. blithering Civil Service Edited April 13, 2018 by Barry O