NRM rebranding - Railway Museum

[Andy Y]

I say "generally" because so far as I know the museum of film, photography and television in Bradford (now the National Science and Media Museum) never charged for some reason.

 

I've just checked and that's been re-branded too - https://www.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk

[Steamport Southport]

I'm happy with it being free.

 

It was more that the woman in charge seemed to be asking for money.   

 

Unfortunately the lottery is dying on it's feet so that source of income will possibly disappear in the near future.

 

 

 

Jason

[kernowtim]

The National maritime museum in Falmouth charges for entry.

[peterfgf]

I object to the bit about dropping the "Industry".  The so-called Science Museum is mostly about applied science, or in other words, engineering. 

 

The same think has happened to another famous institution, the short title of which is The Royal Society of Arts.  Its full and proper title is the Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts , Manufactures and Commerce.

 

The same appears to be true of the BBC and newspapers which continually think science and engineering are the same thing.  The same people also appear to think technology means computing hardware and software.  No wonder young engineers are thin on the ground and the BBC is full of arts and history graduates.

 

C.P.Snow's "Two Cultures" lives on and it is not engineers and scientists who are winning it.

 

Peterfgf

[Foulounoux]

Perhaps it's being included in a job lot sale with Wembley :-)

[Butler Henderson]

https://www.itsnicethat.com/news/north-science-museum-rebrand-identity-graphic-design-111017

[TomJ]

I wonder if it’s something to do with charitable status or to make it clear it’s not a government body? Perhaps the world ‘National’ makes people think it’s wholly government funded?

 

I wonder this because I work in maternity services and there is a similar confusion at the name of the group the ‘National Childbirth Trust’ who run a lot of antenatal classes. Because of the name people think it’s an official government body or part of the NHS, not an independent organisation with its own views

[Andy Y]

There is a press release from last year https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/about-us/press-office/science-museum-launches-new-brand which discusses branding but there is no mention of dropping 'National' from the NRM. Warning; this press release may contain guff.

 

Illumination is a central feature of the new identity, explored both through the changing font weight in the new logo and the use of vibrant colour gradients elsewhere within the graphic language. For the Science Museum the illuminated font suggests change and progress ..... at the National Railway Museum, York, and Locomotion in Shildon, the approach could capture that visceral moment when a great plume of steam envelops onlookers as the Flying Scotsman thunders past at lightning speed; 

 

Through a font? Give me a break.

 

I'm perfectly happy to say I thing the application is fresh and stylish but I think someone's got a bit too far up themselves.

[Jim Martin]

Bring all the big names back and sling all the rest into a shed somewhere (Shildon) and you might get some visitors. Charge them a couple of quid (price of a pint or coffee). Free for children, pensioners, unemployed, etc.

 

 

Wonderlab? Open Store? No wonder it got turned down. Nobody could understand what the hell she was talking about....

Everyone who's ever worked in a museum knows what an open store is. The "shed somewhere" that you mentioned in your previous paragraph, which could be visited by those who wanted to: that's an open store. Probably little or no interpretation, few amenities, quite possibly limited access to some of the objects.

 

National Museums Liverpool (or NMGM as it was then) used to have the Large Objects Collection at Prince's Dock. That was an open store (although we had facilities for school parties to eat packed lunches, and a minimalist tea bar). My wife and I met when we were both working there.

 

Jim

[sem34090]

Having been to Shildon more recently than York I can vouch that if you want to look at locos and stock in detail without all the eateries and shops of York then it is the place to go. They also have a running line and semaphore signalling on the mainline, or did when I was last there.

 

It does seem though that the NRM has been losing itself a bit in recent years. Perhaps spending all the money that it did on one particular loco hasn't helped, but the disposal of locos was perhaps an early sign that the whole operation is in something of a decline. I expect that we'll see more of this, especially with regards locos that have never been in an NRM museum or have been on loan for some years. Here I'm thinking of the locos at Bressingham, Butterley, MHR, GCR, etc. At the risk of opening into a rant, which is more important to British Railway history:

 

1.) ESA (I think?) Capsule that contained a British astronaut on his return a year or so ago. Can help, perhaps, to show current scientific and engineering practices.

2.) LSWR Adams Class T3 4-4-0 No.563 - A fine example of a pre-grouping 4-4-0 that, with the D, T9 and Schools can help show a progression of a basic design over some 30-40 years.

3.) NSR 0-6-2T - Last surviving locomotive designed by the North Staffordshire Railway, can help to describe the expansion of some industry within that county.

4.) Japanese Shinkansen DM - Driving Motor coach from one of the first true high speed lines in the world, in Japan.

5.) China Railways class KF 4-8-4 - British Built loco for a foreign power, outside of the empire. Can help to demonstrate how this country once built locos for the empire and beyond.

 

Not as easy a question as it may seem... I am torn myself between the T3 and the KF, as both help to show Britain's railway heritage. I feel that the NSR 0-6-2T has gone to a better home, but the other two have little or no place in the (N)RM, and in my mind the prototype HST unit should have been occupying that spot until it was restored to working order a few years ago, and the slot should be filled by 43002 (Unless 43001 is still extant or even existed?) when it comes up for withdrawal.

 

There is a fine balance to be struck between public appeal, brand image and the actual purpose of the museum: to maintain items that can, in some way be it large or small, tell the story of how Britain took the concept of a plateway and turned it into the railways that we know, and some love, today.

 

Now it's back to the senility of the pre-grouping section for me!

[woodenhead]

There is a press release from last year https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/about-us/press-office/science-museum-launches-new-brand which discusses branding but there is no mention of dropping 'national' from the NRM. Warning; this press release may contain guff.

 

 

Through a font? Give me a break.

 

I'm perfectly happy to say I thing the application is fresh and stylish but I think someone's got a bit too far up themselves.

It's B*ll*cks, pure and simple.

 

Reminds me of a presentation I saw this week from a consultant whose regular use of the words inverse & correlation to suggest massive intelligence and tell the reader to 'look at me!!!'

[wombatofludham]

I lost patience with the Great British Train Theme Park when it spent £4m on restoring that steam loco to compete with the many privately funded preserved locos in providing fun days out for rich pensioners on the main line. When I worked in the public sector we were expressly forbidden from doing things that the private sector provided, yet the NRM or RM seems to think that it is acceptable to use money to restore a loco for main line jollies when those self same people will pay to ride behind Tornado, Royal Scot or the many other privately funded and maintained main line steam roster. For the outfit now to be wailing that it's £13 million Lottery bid has been put on the long finger when it wasted £4m on Flying Jockstrap, which could (and in my view, should) have been stuffed and mounted for far less, is utter brass-neck.

 

I've said it before, the Museum is an educational charity, not a theme park or fun fair, it derives significant tax benefits from being a charity yet seems to be perfectly happy providing state aided competition to many hard working supporters of main line steam using private money to keep their locos going.

[JJGraphics]

It's B*ll*cks, pure and simple.

 

Reminds me of a presentation I saw this week from a consultant whose regular use of the words inverse & correlation to suggest massive intelligence and tell the reader to 'look at me!!!'

 

 

Absolutely agree!

 

Rebranding is usually the result of some idiot marketing consultant trying to make their mark and quite often actually does more harm than good to the image of a business or place of interest.

 

Does everyone remember the RoyalMail to Consignia and back to RoyalMail rebranding fiasco of a few years ago? What that must have cost is absolutely terrifying to contemplate!

 

Lets hope than someone has the nuts to put a stop to this before it does some serious damage.

 

John

Edited April 28, 2018 by JJGraphics

[Dava]

I agree with Andy's thoughts on the unnecessary rebranding, though in the case of York it may be connected with the 'York Central' project to put 'the railway museum' at the heart of the redevelopment, but isn't a National museum always going to be more prestigious [can I still use long word like that or does 'ace' do instead?].

 

If you want to see a museum group which does need to consider its branding more seriously, it's the Imperial War Museums. I do like IWM at Duxford [a lot] and the other sites I've visited too [ive not been to Salford]. But we don't have an empire anymore and it's not only about war but the preservation of peace. https://www.iwm.org.uk/

 

However the Scottish Railway Museum is correctly branded. Just a pity that some of the best exhibits are imprisoned still in a postmodern shed in Glasgow, not in Bo'Ness with the rest of the museum!

[Boris]

Well, my considered opinion is this new "Railway Museum" will be a welcome extension to their novelty cafe site next to the railway station in York, which has a couple of small railway themed exhibits attached.

I cant quite see the National Peace Museum being as popular somehow.

Alex

Don't take the peace

[Enterprisingwestern]

At least all these pronunciations are filling my bullsh!t bingo card up rapidly!

 

Mike.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Enterprisingwestern

[Pacific231G]

There is a press release from last year https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/about-us/press-office/science-museum-launches-new-brand which discusses branding but there is no mention of dropping 'National' from the NRM. Warning; this press release may contain guff.

 

 

Through a font? Give me a break.

 

I'm perfectly happy to say I thing the application is fresh and stylish but I think someone's got a bit too far up themselves.

Why am I suddenly reminded of the ghastly Siobhan Sharpe and "Perfect Curve" in Twenty Twelve and W1A?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCQJEAcYSCw

I'll bet the marketing consultants really did ask  them "if the museum was an animal what sort of animal would it be?" and yes I have been asked that question by branding "experts" at least twice  (though to be fair one of them did come up with some pretty good concepts) .

Edited April 28, 2018 by Pacific231G

[E3109]

I was at the East Lancs for the Class 40 60th do the other week.

Hats off to the NRM for sending D200 along.

But maybe they should've let the CFPS look after the doyen UFN?

I can't see that loco ever running again frankly, after all they seem to prioritise Flying Moneypits above all else.

 

They should give custodianship to them (assuming they want that) then it's a win-win for everyone.

 

Seems the NRM has been "Common Purposed" and if you don't know what I'm on about then maybe you should google it.

 

At the very least, to my mind whoever is in charge these days don't appear to deem a passion for railways a prerequisite for an employment contract.

 

That said, they helped me out immensely during some recent research for a layout project. So maybe all is not lost, just yet.

 

Can I just say though, the EM1 in their care suffered bent pans recently. Due to a shunting miscalculation.

Utter sacrilege in my book.

If Flying Moneypit had as much as a scratched buffer beam there would've been mass outrage.

 

But hey ho, 26020 is only some anonymous-looking box on wheels so it doesn't matter.

I'm reaching the point where my last will and testament will NOT include a substantial donation towards the upkeep of 76020 because it seems the custodians don't give a sh1te about it in the first place.

[Brit70053]

This thread has inflicted an ear worm on me now, all I can hear is Danny Kaye as H C Anderson singing "The King's New Clothes"

Do we never learn ?

[dibber25]

I was going to comment but decided against it. I find myself suspicious of anything the NRM does these days. While we're discussing name changes, are we missing something bigger that's going on? 

Edited April 28, 2018 by dibber25

[25901]

I agree with Andy's thoughts on the unnecessary rebranding, though in the case of York it may be connected with the 'York Central' project to put 'the railway museum' at the heart of the redevelopment, but isn't a National museum always going to be more prestigious [can I still use long word like that or does 'ace' do instead?].

 

If you want to see a museum group which does need to consider its branding more seriously, it's the Imperial War Museums. I do like IWM at Duxford [a lot] and the other sites I've visited too [ive not been to Salford]. But we don't have an empire anymore and it's not only about war but the preservation of peace. https://www.iwm.org.uk/

 

However the Scottish Railway Museum is correctly branded. Just a pity that some of the best exhibits are imprisoned still in a postmodern shed in Glasgow, not in Bo'Ness with the rest of the museum!

 

The "York Central" may now not happen as the £13 million pound piece of the pie for the museum has been rejected http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/16187250.National_Railway_Museum_s_revamp_hit_by___13m_funding_blow/

[Butler Henderson]

I was going to comment but decided against it. I find myself suspicious of anything the NRM does these days. While we're discussing name changes, are we missing something bigger that's going on?

Seems just to be rebranding of all the museums in the "group". At least its not the First/Stagecoach/Arriva Railway Museum or The Railway Museum in York by Transdev/Go Ahead (yet!)

[wombatofludham]

Seems just to be rebranding of all the museums in the "group". At least its not the First/Stagecoach/Arriva Railway Museum or The Railway Museum in York by Transdev/Go Ahead (yet!)

Actually if Arriva took over the running of the Is It National Railway Museum, as a DB company I can't help feeling we might get some proper attention to the Museum aspects rather than the Amazon-Starbucks business model the (N)RM currently follows, as the German railway museums are generally excellent in my view. In particular they do at least address trains with coathangers, which I know are more plentiful in Germany, and generally seem to be more engaged and relevant to all groups, both enthusiasts and the family market, than our own example which seems to be chasing a "Thomas the Tank Engine" approach to railway history.

[E3109]

Furthermore (and apologies for banging on about 76ers yet again) MOSI don't appear to be all that bothered about the remains of the beheaded HECTOR aka E26048/76039.

My mate was there last week and reckoned the cab was filthy with dust.

As I understand it, MOSI is part of the same organisation as the NRM, I acknowledge that I'm somewhat biased towards DC wire scrapers but it seems that some artefacts are more important than others.

 

MOSI and the NRM are fantastic museums and I just hope the admin hasn't been taken over by people who neither know, nor particularly care about railways.

[brack]

Funny, the private sector can provide me with a doctor, a lawyer, schools for my kids and people to stop criminals around my house yet nobody's upset about the public sector muscling in on that territory.

 

Rather than whining about flying Scotsman or locos dumped from public ownership without due process, recognise that we can't change what's past but the current unnecessary rebranding can be challenged and possibly reversed if enough of the public and media opinion opens their eyes to how daft this is.

 

In the meantime, regardless of its faults, I'll continue to visit locomotion and/or the Tetley's Sports Direct Railway Museum@York as the grouping around the turntable retains its impact, the historic stock on display and the setting still resonate, and although I might not support some of the more hare brained ideas I definitely support having a national collection and a national railway museum.